I totally agree with giving dmen the benefit of the doubt and sticking with them through the ups and downs... but there have been a lot of Chara references these past few days, in connection with Morin and now Schenn... as if to say development can be so unpredictable that we can dismiss the bulk of historical patterns to hold out hope that our Clark Kent will somehow step out of a phone booth one day wearing a cape.

I think Schenn can still be a really useful player... pair him back with Kimmo or Gus and let him do his thing. His ability to gain exits out of the zone with possession is surprisingly solid for a guy who's supposedly not that good at it. He has some rough edges in his own zone that can be smoothed out with confidence and experience.

But after 400 NHL games, I think it's safe to say that he's never going to live up to the franchise moniker, and there's really nothing there to suggest that he'll magically flip that switch one day.
- Tomahawk

I don't know what the Leafs thought when drafting him, nor what the Flyers thought when they traded for him. But I don't see anything in Schenn to remotely even use the word franchise to describe him. I think that is setting up the player for failure.

Alex Gudbranson had an impressive one as well


- ob18

Is he Erik's brother? And how does he project prospect-wise?

Edit: Decided not to be lazy and google that he is his brother

i miss leino's beard. and forehead vein.

I don't know what the Leafs thought when drafting him, nor what the Flyers thought when they traded for him. But I don't see anything in Schenn to remotely even use the word franchise to describe him. I think that is setting up the player for failure.
- MJL

Central Scouting had him ahead of Pietrangelo in their final ranking before the draft, for example.

Just listen to Pierre gush, lol:

Is he Erik's brother? And how does he project prospect-wise?

Edit: Decided not to be lazy and google that he is his brother
- five4fighting10

Yes he is the brother of Erik.

I believe he has not been drafted & is free to sign with any team. He is the D partner of Darnell Nurse.

Solid game but probably 3rd pair guy at the NHL level. Might be able to play some top 4 minutes but that might be a stretch.

Central Scouting had him ahead of Pietrangelo in their final ranking before the draft, for example.


- Tomahawk

Well he was drafted 5th I think, so he was highly regarded. I'm referring to what I see in him as a player now. And the word franchise is not an adjective I would use to describe him both now, or in terms of future potential.

First of all, the Flyers didn't trade the JVR of today, they traded JVR 2 Seasons ago. And if he was worth more in a trade, then I think they would've gotten more in return. I think JVR's value when the deal was made is being over valued. And in my opinion, it doesn't come close to the Eminger deal.




They traded a young player for a young player in return. They may have lost patience with JVR, but they got youth back in a position of need.
- MJL

how do you know jvr wasn't worth more? maybe homer didn't know wtf he was doing?

Central Scouting had him ahead of Pietrangelo in their final ranking before the draft, for example.

Just listen to Pierre gush, lol:

- Tomahawk

too bad he didn't play to that hype oh wow did they over hype him

Central Scouting had him ahead of Pietrangelo in their final ranking before the draft, for example.

Just listen to Pierre gush, lol:

- Tomahawk

Pierre knows so much about hockey, except when he doesn't.

Central Scouting had him ahead of Pietrangelo in their final ranking before the draft, for example.

Just listen to Pierre gush, lol:

- Tomahawk

Pierre is the best

My take on the jvr/ schenn trade... While I agree with why Philly traded jvr( I also wanted him traded due to he's a wuss and not the power forward we were told he'd be) if schenn tops out at 3rd pairing dman( 10-14 minutes a game) we lose that trade BIG time. If schenn tops out as 2nd pairing dman( 14-18) min a game we just lose that trade. He's never going to be more than that so either way we lose that trade. To what extent I think will be set in stone over the next 2 years. Unless of course we flip him for better.

Pierre is the best
- Crimsoninja

yea apparently schenn is a player you rebuild your team around

My take on the jvr/ schenn trade... While I agree with why Philly traded jvr( I also wanted him traded due to he's a wuss and not the power forward we were told he'd be) if schenn tops out at 3rd pairing dman( 10-14 minutes a game) we lose that trade BIG time. If schenn tops out as 2nd pairing dman( 14-18) min a game we just lose that trade. He's never going to be more than that so either way we lose that trade. To what extent I think will be set in stone over the next 2 years. Unless of course we flip him for better.
- SMS4016

Schenn is already more then a 10-14 minute a game player. I'm not sure how a player can be deemed to never be more then a certain level of player, at 24 years of age. Especially with a defenseman.

My take on the jvr/ schenn trade... While I agree with why Philly traded jvr( I also wanted him traded due to he's a wuss and not the power forward we were told he'd be) if schenn tops out at 3rd pairing dman( 10-14 minutes a game) we lose that trade BIG time. If schenn tops out as 2nd pairing dman( 14-18) min a game we just lose that trade. He's never going to be more than that so either way we lose that trade. To what extent I think will be set in stone over the next 2 years. Unless of course we flip him for better.
- SMS4016

yea ok not ever gm is as dumb as homer

Well he was drafted 5th I think, so he was highly regarded. I'm referring to what I see in him as a player now. And the word franchise is not an adjective I would use to describe him both now, or in terms of future potential.
- MJL

As silly at may seem now, he really was a beast at 17-18.

As silly at may seem now, he really was a beast at 17-18.
- Tomahawk

I'm sure he was. He wasn't drafted 5th overall for nothing. We've seen how he can be a beast at times in the NHL. Just needs to bring it consistently.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR& Schenn Revisted, Raffl, and More
- bmeltzer

The problem with JvR for Schenn, for me, is two fold.

One, when comparing the two side to side, you have to look at potential and the likelihood of each player reaching that potential. IMO, JvR not only has a higher ceiling, but also seems more likely of reaching that ceiling.

JvR scored at a 30 goal pace in last year's lockout shortened season. He's again on pace for 30 goals this season. Schenn has been far more inconsistent, which was his pattern in Toronto, as well.

The second factor is, did the trade fill a need...and in the case of adding Schenn, it did fill a couple needs. However, it failed to fill the most pressing of needs. The Flyers had a 37 year old Kimmo Timonen and a UFA to be in Matt Carle in terms of proven puck moving defensemen with good mobility.

If Schenn's most important quality was being a righty shot...that's not a good deal, even with the lack of righty shooting defenseman.

I try not to get too high or two low about the team, and I was encouraged by Schenn's play last season. But the Flyers should have gotten more for JvR than a second pair, physical defenseman. It's not trashing them, it's simply offering an opinion.

I'm not saying they should get rid of Schenn for whatever the market will bear, just wish they had made a better trade in dumping JvR

Schenn is already more then a 10-14 minute a game player. I'm not sure how a player can be deemed to never be more then a certain level of player, at 24 years of age. Especially with a defenseman.
- MJL

Hey I like scenn but once he starts playing more than around 15 minutes a game his weaknesses start to get exposed. He's not consistent game in and game out. He can be vwry effective when slotted in proper spot and if we had true #1 it would make all our d slot better. Yes schenn can fill in the top 4 for awhile but when given that chance he gets exposed. After 6 years he is pretty much what he is. Just think we could have gotten a little more for jvr than that.

The problem with JvR for Schenn, for me, is two fold.

One, when comparing the two side to side, you have to look at potential and the likelihood of each player reaching that potential. IMO, JvR not only has a higher ceiling, but also seems more likely of reaching that ceiling.

JvR scored at a 30 goal pace in last year's lockout shortened season. He's again on pace for 30 goals this season. Schenn has been far more inconsistent, which was his pattern in Toronto, as well.

The second factor is, did the trade fill a need...and in the case of adding Schenn, it did fill a couple needs. However, it failed to fill the most pressing of needs. The Flyers had a 37 year old Kimmo Timonen and a UFA to be in Matt Carle in terms of proven puck moving defensemen with good mobility.

If Schenn's most important quality was being a righty shot...that's not a good deal, even with the lack of righty shooting defenseman.

I try not to get too high or two low about the team, and I was encouraged by Schenn's play last season. But the Flyers should have gotten more for JvR than a second pair, physical defenseman. It's not trashing them, it's simply offering an opinion.

I'm not saying they should get rid of Schenn for whatever the market will bear, just wish they had made a better trade in dumping JvR
- Jsaquella

I think the problem there is what is a higher ceiling? And why does JVR have a higher ceiling. I don't think that can be done when comparing a scoring line Winger to a defenseman. And I also think that defense is a far more important position then Wing is, has to be weighed in the conversation. And we've seen in the past with other trades such as the Downie deal, where it's been stated that just because the deal didn't address a bigger need, doesn't mean that the deal is a bad deal. Not sure why a different standard is being applied to the JVR-Schenn trade. I would have preferred that they obtained a Ryan McDonaugh type also. Doesn't make it a bad deal. Defenseman like Schenn are also needed in today's game.

Hey I like scenn but once he starts playing more than around 15 minutes a game his weaknesses start to get exposed. He's not consistent game in and game out. He can be vwry effective when slotted in proper spot and if we had true #1 it would make all our d slot better. Yes schenn can fill in the top 4 for awhile but when given that chance he gets exposed. After 6 years he is pretty much what he is. Just think we could have gotten a little more for jvr than that.
- SMS4016

Down the stretch last year, he was playing well over 20 minutes a game, and his weaknesses were not exposed. I couldn't disagree more with saying he is what he is after 6 years. History shows that can not be stated with a defenseman who is 24 years old.

I think the problem there is what is a higher ceiling? And why does JVR have a higher ceiling. I don't think that can be done when comparing a scoring line Winger to a defenseman. And I also think that defense is a far more important position then Wing is, has to be weighed in the conversation. And we've seen in the past with other trades such as the Downie deal, where it's been stated that just because the deal didn't address a bigger need, doesn't mean that the deal is a bad deal. Not sure why a different standard is being applied to the JVR-Schenn trade. I would have preferred that they obtained a Ryan McDonaugh type also. Doesn't make it a bad deal. Defenseman like Schenn are also needed in today's game.
- MJL

Point 1) They gave up Talbot to get Downie, not a former 2nd-overall pick,
Point 2) Sure, but you ideally don't want to be trading your most valued assets for them.

Down the stretch last year, he was playing well over 20 minutes a game, and his weaknesses were not exposed. I couldn't disagree more with saying he is what he is after 6 years. History shows that can not be stated with a defenseman who is 24 years old.
- MJL

I agree he can still improve due to his age. But to what extent? His offense I think we can agree isn't going to get much better( which is fine, never expected much) his Defense.?? Maybe a little more consistent and not getting best by his average at best speed? Overall not a whole lot to improve. That's shy I said " pretty much" what you see is what you get.

Point 1) They gave up Talbot to get Downie, not a former 2nd-overall pick,
Point 2) Sure, but you ideally don't want to be trading your most valued assets for them.
- Tomahawk

Especially point #2

Point 1) They gave up Talbot to get Downie, not a former 2nd-overall pick,
Point 2) Sure, but you ideally don't want to be trading your most valued assets for them.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. They also got a better player in the Talbot-Downie deal than the one they gave up.

Making a deal that only fills a minor need isn't bad, but paying a premium price for it isn't a great idea.

Good discussion on JVR/Schenn. I didn't like the deal when it happened, but not becuase they traded JVR for Schenn. It was because they traded JVR at all. I always felt he would eventually become the player we hoped he be. A player of his size and style will take longer to develop in the NHL, IMO. And the same goes for Schenn. Schenn is a physical player with not a lot of foot speed. He needs to be smart and make good decisions to thrive. If he makes the right decisions he looks like a beast out there. I think that's a skill that is developed with time and why he will only get better. I don't think he suddenly became a bad defensemen. I just think it will require time. In the end, if Schenn becomes the player we've seen he could
be, I think it will end up being a fair deal.