bylsma shouldve been fired at intermission and the reigns handed over to Peter
- Crimsoninja

reins.

Nope. Once again, I've been beaten into submission by this board.

Despite the fact that not a single person can ever recall me saying I hate JVR or Patrick Kane, EVER, on this board, or me repeatedly explaining that don't I hold some kind of Ridiculous Fan Grudge Against a Traded Player and a player who never played for the Flyers and, instead, simply wanted them to play well for Team USA today, against an elite opponent, instead of piling up numbers against lesser competition so that the Team USA could play for a gold medal, you are wrong.

I hate JVR. I hate Patrick Kane. I hate them hate them hate them. For no other reason than people who aren't me are saying that I'm irrationally singling them out for some reason other than the fact the I physically watched them play poorly today.

The board wins.
- AllInForFlyers

What can you do?

You make a valid point and then the argument changes.

You mention JvR and Kane have played numerous good games through the tourney, and then people bring up a guy who had a good game last time out, which totally ignores the point about a guy playing well for several games in a row.

And then when you say, yes, the entire team underperformed, it gets ignored, because you obviously have an agenda for one guy.

What can you do? Me, I go to twitter and talk to people who are actually fun to have a conversation with, where if everything turns into a pissing match, you can just block them.

What can you do?

You make a valid point and then the argument changes.

You mention JvR and Kane have played numerous good games through the tourney, and then people bring up a guy who had a good game last time out, which totally ignores the point about a guy playing well for several games in a row.

And then when you say, yes, the entire team underperformed, it gets ignored, because you obviously have an agenda for one guy.

What can you do? Me, I go to twitter and talk to people who are actually fun to have a conversation with, where if everything turns into a pissing match, you can just block them.
- Jsaquella

Clearly, you missed the beginning of the argument.

Final

Rimouski - 4
Blainville-Boisbriand - 1

Morin with an assist

What can you do?

You make a valid point and then the argument changes.

You mention JvR and Kane have played numerous good games through the tourney, and then people bring up a guy who had a good game last time out, which totally ignores the point about a guy playing well for several games in a row.

And then when you say, yes, the entire team underperformed, it gets ignored, because you obviously have an agenda for one guy.

What can you do? Me, I go to twitter and talk to people who are actually fun to have a conversation with, where if everything turns into a pissing match, you can just block them.
- Jsaquella

This completely misses the argument. The argument offered isn't that JVR doesn't deserve criticism. The argument is simply that JVR is not the only player that deserved criticism. And that giving other players, because they are older a pass, is unfair.

Clearly, you missed the beginning of the argument.
- PhillySportsGuy

Nope, I read back

Exactly -- but that's why I'm riding guys like JVR and Kane so hard.

Dustin Brown's an '03 -- this isn't his tournament, anymore. Four years ago was. Orpik's ancient, Callahan's a nice player, but ultimately, a complementary one.

Look who scored for Canada today: Jamie Benn. An '07. This was his tournament, the '06s-'08s.

The U.S. has the top two picks from the '07 draft on their team...both forwards...and got shut out.

It's not entirely their fault. I'm not saying it is. But at some point, yeah, JVR and Kane, you need to get the job done. We're all sorry that it's that way, but yeah, it is that way.
- AllInForFlyers

Your reply:

So you're saying they lost because Kane and JVR couldn't score? Thats very narrow sighted.
- PhillySportsGuy

To me, he's pointing out that JvR & Kane are the two best US forwards that are under 26 years of age and moving forward, they're going to have to be the go to guys-assuming that the NHL goes to Korea in 2018.

He clearly states that he's not blaming just those two, and it's pretty clear to me that he's saying he's disappointed that they both were pretty ineffective today, against the team that beat the US four years ago, rather than maintaining their level of play or even raising it a bit higher.

You locked into that "blaming Kane & JvR" thing. When he further replies

No, I'm saying they lost because at some point, somebody has to score, and it's unfair to expect guys like Dustin Brown and Ryan Callahan to be difference-makers against six of the best defensemen in the world.

Michael Jordan had to score. Kobe Bryant had to score. Kevin Durant had to score.

At some point, your best players have to score. And when they don't, and you get shut out, then it's not narrow-sighted to say "Hey, expecting a declining Dustin Brown to score isn't as realistic as expecting Patrick Kane to pop a goal."
- AllInForFlyers

Again, he makes it clear that he's not just blaming JvR or Kane. However, those two, along with Phil Kessel, have been the US team's best players through the tourney. He was disappointed that they failed to play well against the Canadians...and continued to get beat on as if he failed to acknowledge the poor play by the rest of the team...which he did, several times.

At most he's concerned because the two key offensive guys moving forward failed to step up and play well against Canada.

Final

Rimouski - 4
Blainville-Boisbriand - 1

Morin with an assist
- ob18

Josh Ho Sang had two helpers and was +2 in a loss.

Nope, I read back




Your reply:




To me, he's pointing out that JvR & Kane are the two best US forwards that are under 26 years of age and moving forward, they're going to have to be the go to guys-assuming that the NHL goes to Korea in 2018.

He clearly states that he's not blaming just those two, and it's pretty clear to me that he's saying he's disappointed that they both were pretty ineffective today, against the team that beat the US four years ago, rather than maintaining their level of play or even raising it a bit higher.

You locked into that "blaming Kane & JvR" thing. When he further replies



Again, he makes it clear that he's not just blaming JvR or Kane. However, those two, along with Phil Kessel, have been the US team's best players through the tourney. He was disappointed that they failed to play well against the Canadians...and continued to get beat on as if he failed to acknowledge the poor play by the rest of the team...which he did, several times.

At most he's concerned because the two key offensive guys moving forward failed to step up and play well against Canada.
- Jsaquella

Out foul demon, logic and facts have no place here

Nope, I read back




Your reply:




To me, he's pointing out that JvR & Kane are the two best US forwards that are under 26 years of age and moving forward, they're going to have to be the go to guys-assuming that the NHL goes to Korea in 2018.

He clearly states that he's not blaming just those two, and it's pretty clear to me that he's saying he's disappointed that they both were pretty ineffective today, against the team that beat the US four years ago, rather than maintaining their level of play or even raising it a bit higher.

You locked into that "blaming Kane & JvR" thing. When he further replies



Again, he makes it clear that he's not just blaming JvR or Kane. However, those two, along with Phil Kessel, have been the US team's best players through the tourney. He was disappointed that they failed to play well against the Canadians...and continued to get beat on as if he failed to acknowledge the poor play by the rest of the team...which he did, several times.

At most he's concerned because the two key offensive guys moving forward failed to step up and play well against Canada.
- Jsaquella

1. JVR is NOT one of USAs best players. Parise, Kane, Kesler and Pavelski are the best forwards.

2. He says "at some point, Kane and JVR need to get the job done." Why only Kane and JVR? Why is he singling those two players out? There are many other players as good or better than JVR. It would be like saying "Giroux and Brayden Schenn need to get the job done."

They may be the future of USA hockey, but right now, JVR isn't the present USA hockey.

My primary point to him is that its a team game. Two players shouldn't be relied upon to score against an all world defense. It needs to be a complete team effort from the goalie on out. Team USAs breakouts were shotty and created very few chances to enter Canadas zone with speed or numbers. Its difficult to create offense in those situations. Did you ever stop to think that the offensive players looked unnoticeable because they were forced to play in their defensive zone the entire game?

In the end, I felt the mentioning of individual players in a game like that was narrow sighted. Like the Flyers at the beginning of the season, there was enough blame (and praise for Canada) to go around.

Out foul demon, logic and facts have no place here
- twotoekenn

He still doesn't understand what the argument was about. He thinks he does.

Josh Ho Sang had two helpers and was +2 in a loss.
- Jsaquella

why?

i looked him up...interesting story but i'm missing the significance

1. JVR is NOT one of USAs best players. Parise, Kane, Kesler and Pavelski are the best forwards.

2. He says "at some point, Kane and JVR need to get the job done." Why only Kane and JVR? Why is he singling those two players out? There are many other players as good or better than JVR. It would be like saying "Giroux and Brayden Schenn need to get the job done."

They may be the future of USA hockey, but right now, JVR isn't the present USA hockey.

My primary point to him is that its a team game. Two players shouldn't be relied upon to score against an all world defense. It needs to be a complete team effort from the goalie on out. Team USAs breakouts were shotty and created very few chances to enter Canadas zone with speed or numbers. Its difficult to create offense in those situations. Did you ever stop to think that the offensive players looked unnoticeable because they were forced to play in their defensive zone the entire game?

In the end, I felt the mentioning of individual players in a game like that was narrow sighted. Like the Flyers at the beginning of the season, there was enough blame (and praise for Canada) to go around.
- PhillySportsGuy

1. During THIS tournament, Team USA's leading scorers are:
Kessel 8 pts, JvR 5 Pts, Pavelski 5 Pts, Kane 4 points. Those guys have been the team's best and most consistent offensive players. How does a guy who is second on the team in scoring not the present of the team?

2. He was pointing out that Kane & JvR are the only forwards who played key roles in Sochi that will be under 30 years of age in 2018, should the NHL play in those Olympics. Today was an opportunity for them to send a strong message.

Again, he isn't laying all the blame on those two players, as he repeatedly said and you choose to ignore. He mentioned those two as this Olympics is a passing of the torch of sorts. They seemed primed to step forward and assume the role as the face of Team USA moving forward, and both played poorly.

As did most of their teammates-which again, was noted several times and seemingly ignored.

You feel naming two guys was narrow sighted. I feel ignoring that he flat out stated that he wasn't blaming them alone was narrow sighted.

Yes, it's a team game. He admitted that the players he specifically mentioned were not totally to blame. He expressed disappointment that those two couldn't sustain their high level of play for another two games. But at no point did he blame them & them alone.

You don't like guys getting singled out? I don't really like when people cherry pick parts of a post and ignore others.

why?

i looked him up...interesting story but i'm missing the significance
- hogweed

Inside joke...

Thanks to JVR we have to keep Bieber

Thanks to JVR we have to keep Bieber
- 2Real

Send him to Texas. He pulls the crap he did in Florida they'll execute him

Inside joke...
- Jsaquella

oh....i thought he might be a prospect in the flyers system but he's eligible for this draft

oh....i thought he might be a prospect in the flyers system but he's eligible for this draft
- hogweed

He's a highly skilled winger, but he's a bit of a divisive guy among scouts. OB had watched him a few times and remarked that "He plays like he forgot he had teammates", meaning that he tried to do too much on his own and ended up blowing as many chances as he created.

However, since then, OB has said that he's come around on the kid, because he's dripping with offensive skill and potential.

1. During THIS tournament, Team USA's leading scorers are:
Kessel 8 pts, JvR 5 Pts, Pavelski 5 Pts, Kane 4 points. Those guys have been the team's best and most consistent offensive players. How does a guy who is second on the team in scoring not the present of the team?

2. He was pointing out that Kane & JvR are the only forwards who played key roles in Sochi that will be under 30 years of age in 2018, should the NHL play in those Olympics. Today was an opportunity for them to send a strong message.

Again, he isn't laying all the blame on those two players, as he repeatedly said and you choose to ignore. He mentioned those two as this Olympics is a passing of the torch of sorts. They seemed primed to step forward and assume the role as the face of Team USA moving forward, and both played poorly.

As did most of their teammates-which again, was noted several times and seemingly ignored.

You feel naming two guys was narrow sighted. I feel ignoring that he flat out stated that he wasn't blaming them alone was narrow sighted.

Yes, it's a team game. He admitted that the players he specifically mentioned were not totally to blame. He expressed disappointment that those two couldn't sustain their high level of play for another two games. But at no point did he blame them & them alone.

You don't like guys getting singled out? I don't really like when people cherry pick parts of a post and ignore others.
- Jsaquella

Having the most points doesn't make you the best or most important player. Kesler was as important as any forward for team USA.

You're laying things out very passively. He didn't express disappointment. He was saying that Kane and JVR need to get the job done no matter how tough the opponent or how little help they're getting.

I understand that he's not blaming them for everything. I just found it surprising for him to single out JVR and Kane as the guys who needed to get the job done.

Send him to Texas. He pulls the crap he did in Florida they'll execute him
- Jsaquella

Only two things in Texas, steers and queers - Tyler Seiguin

Having the most points doesn't make you the best or most important player. Kesler was as important as any forward for team USA.

You're laying things out very passively. He didn't express disappointment. He was saying that Kane and JVR need to get the job done no matter how tough the opponent or how little help they're getting.

I understand that he's not blaming them for everything. I just found it surprising for him to single out JVR and Kane as the guys who needed to get the job done.
- PhillySportsGuy

You say you understand that he's not completely blaming them, yet your comment back to him that started the discussion was a complete and total dismissal of his acknowledgement of that.

Also, if you really read what he wrote, and looked at it closely, he's pretty clearly saying that the older players on USA will not be the key players on the team in the future. That's why he mentions the draft classes.

Look at the US forwards. Backes, Parise, Kesler, Pavelski and Brown are 29. Callahan and Stastny are 28. Wheeler & Oshie are 27. Kessel is 26. All will be 30 or older in 2018.

He's making the point that the guys who were the young engine that powered the US to a silver in 2010 will be the spare parts in the future. If the NHL allows players to go to Korea in 2018, JvR & Kane will be the centerpieces of the offense. He's expressing a desire for the guys who will be those centerpieces to step up against a top team and play well.

If you have a problem hat he didn't specifically say that Backes, Parise, Kesler, Pavelski, Brown, Callahan, Stastny, Wheeler, Oshie and Kessel played like poop, but he's more disappointed that JvR & Kane failed to step up, as they are the future centerpieces of the US team moving forward, then the problem is yours, not his.

Not only did he clarify this in the subsequent conversation, but the constant comments back focused solely on that fact that he specifically mentioned JvR and Kane continued to ignore the point he was making.

Having the most points doesn't make you the best or most important player. Kesler was as important as any forward for team USA.

You're laying things out very passively. He didn't express disappointment. He was saying that Kane and JVR need to get the job done no matter how tough the opponent or how little help they're getting.

I understand that he's not blaming them for everything. I just found it surprising for him to single out JVR and Kane as the guys who needed to get the job done.
- PhillySportsGuy

I see you've asked a couple of times why people were singling out JVR, and it's because of the wayhe played. What was the biggest complaint about the US's offense today? They didn't get bodies in front of Price and make things difficult for him.
What made JVR so successful so far in these Olympics was his willingness to go to the net and provide screens and reflections. He didn't do that this game, and to be fair no one else did either.
That, to me, is enough to warrant criticism.

You say you understand that he's not completely blaming them, yet your comment back to him that started the discussion was a complete and total dismissal of his acknowledgement of that.

Also, if you really read what he wrote, and looked at it closely, he's pretty clearly saying that the older players on USA will not be the key players on the team in the future. That's why he mentions the draft classes.

Look at the US forwards. Backes, Parise, Kesler, Pavelski and Brown are 29. Callahan and Stastny are 28. Wheeler & Oshie are 27. Kessel is 26. All will be 30 or older in 2018.

He's making the point that the guys who were the young engine that powered the US to a silver in 2010 will be the spare parts in the future. If the NHL allows players to go to Korea in 2018, JvR & Kane will be the centerpieces of the offense. He's expressing a desire for the guys who will be those centerpieces to step up against a top team and play well.

If you have a problem hat he didn't specifically say that Backes, Parise, Kesler, Pavelski, Brown, Callahan, Stastny, Wheeler, Oshie and Kessel played like poop, but he's more disappointed that JvR & Kane failed to step up, as they are the future centerpieces of the US team moving forward, then the problem is yours, not his.

Not only did he clarify this in the subsequent conversation, but the constant comments back focused solely on that fact that he specifically mentioned JvR and Kane continued to ignore the point he was making.
- Jsaquella

he said he wasn't blaming them then said they need to get the job done. You don't find that contradictory at all?

I understand what he's saying. He wanted JVR and Kane to take control and power the US moving forward into the next olympics. I just don't understand why the onus was on them to get the job done in these olympics. There are plenty of other guys who could have stepped up in these olympics. JVR shouldn't be relied upon as the team's primary point getter. He's a supporting cast member on this roster.

I see you've asked a couple of times why people were singling out JVR, and it's because of the wayhe played. What was the biggest complaint about the US's offense today? They didn't get bodies in front of Price and make things difficult for him.
What made JVR so successful so far in these Olympics was his willingness to go to the net and provide screens and reflections. He didn't do that this game, and to be fair no one else did either.
That, to me, is enough to warrant criticism.
- fecondo

I know. It just came across the wrong way. He didn't express his own desire to see JVR elevate his game. He said JVR and Kane needed to step up and get the job done. I responded condescendingly and asked why he chose to single JVR and Kane out as guys who needed to get the job done. Why not Pavelski or Kessel or Kesler or Parise?

Its a pet peeve of mine to see people single out specific players after a loss. We've all played sports. Its not as simple as just getting the job done. You need the team to play at a high level around you. One player can't just take over a game against a defense like Team Canada.

he said he wasn't blaming them then said they need to get the job done. You don't find that contradictory at all?

I understand what he's saying. He wanted JVR and Kane to take control and power the US moving forward into the next olympics. I just don't understand why the onus was on them to get the job done in these olympics. There are plenty of other guys who could have stepped up in these olympics. JVR shouldn't be relied upon as the team's primary point getter. He's a supporting cast member on this roster.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't see JVR as a supporting cast member on this roster. In my opinion, the top two scoring lines for the US were JVR-pavelski-kessel and praise-kesler-Kane. Maybe he should have said he was disappointed with the top 6, but I don't believe he was wrong in calling out the only two top 6 players under the age of 26. Again, just my opinion lol