i think coburns physical skills have helped him get through a lot of those issues though, whereas schenn isnt so blessed
- stayinthefnnet

Kind of. Coburn is a bit of a wanderer sometimes. He's just physical enough but not really a punishing player. When schenn is on his game, he's not fun to play against. I just think schenn has more to offer than what we've seen this year. I like Coburn too and I feel they are different types of players despite being similar in size.

Has anyone else heard that St.Louis was demanding a trade after initially being left off the Olympic team, and still wants traded. Heard Lighting and Rangers are talking Callahan+ for St. Louis.
- SchennBros

That wouldn't happen in a million years

Kind of. Coburn is a bit of a wanderer sometimes. He's just physical enough but not really a punishing player. When schenn is on his game, he's not fun to play against. I just think schenn has more to offer than what we've seen this year. I like Coburn too and I feel they are different types of players despite being similar in size.
- PhillySportsGuy

true. i do see them as different. i just meant that similar to a guy like letang, coburn has often had the wheels to compensate for mistakes. schenn doesnt.

when grossmann is on his game, he isnt fun to play against either. if schenn tops out as grossmann, are you fine with that?

Isn't Coburn a "Girardi" too? I think the pressing need is for puck-movers to compliment the Coburns and Schenns that they already have... seems a grossly inefficient use of cap-space to get preoccupied with Girardi, just because he's likely to be the brightest, shiniest object out there.
- Tomahawk

Agreed, they need guys who can move the puck in transition, who are comfortable under pressure and who can routinely skate the puck up ice if a pass doesn't materialize.

That's the biggest issue. On a lightly challenged play, any of the Flyers defensemen can make a shirt, simple outlet pass. But under heavy pressure, a few of them act like the puck is a hand grenade missing it's pin, and very few of them are comfortable simply skating the puck out if there's no passing option, which leads to bad passes or icings, or worse trying to force a pass through traffic

true. i do see them as different. i just meant that similar to a guy like letang, coburn has often had the wheels to compensate for mistakes. schenn doesnt.

when grossmann is on his game, he isnt fun to play against either. if schenn tops out as grossmann, are you fine with that?
- stayinthefnnet[/quote]

No. Schenn has more speed and natural ability. He should be able to contribute more offensively

[quote=stayinthefnnet]true. i do see them as different. i just meant that similar to a guy like letang, coburn has often had the wheels to compensate for mistakes. schenn doesnt.

when grossmann is on his game, he isnt fun to play against either. if schenn tops out as grossmann, are you fine with that?
- PhillySportsGuy[/quote]

No. Schenn has more speed and natural ability. He should be able to contribute more offensively

i could see him getting better and more consistent in his own end. but (granted this is only my opinion, i dont have stats or flowcharts or any of the like to support it for you folks) i dont see offense ever coming from him.

when grossmann is on his game, he isnt fun to play against either. if schenn tops out as grossmann, are you fine with that?
- stayinthefnnet

He's already better than Grossmann, lol.

/flame shield

i could see him getting better and more consistent in his own end. but (granted this is only my opinion, i dont have stats or flowcharts or any of the like to support it for you folks) i dont see offense ever coming from him.
- stayinthefnnet

I'm hoping for around 20-25 points. Not a lot but he should be able to chip in some points.

I know you live in the area so you probably catch a lot of flyers games. Did you watch them much last year?

How about for Lecavalier?
- jmatchett383

I would do that, but I don't think he can go back to TB till after the 13-14 season ends.

He's already better than Grossmann, lol.

/flame shield
- Tomahawk

He can be, but man, there are times he seems completely lost out there.

Has anyone else heard that St.Louis was demanding a trade after initially being left off the Olympic team, and still wants traded. Heard Lighting and Rangers are talking Callahan+ for St. Louis.
- SchennBros

Rumor was, Sather offered Callahan for St Louis, and Yzerman balked. I would have, too. Callahan wants huge money, and he's not a $7mm a year guy

He can be, but man, there are times he seems completely lost out there.
- Jsaquella

He's about 50% more efficient than Grossmann at exiting the zone with possession, and his career points/game average is 2x Grossmann. Of course, the kicker has always been that he's nowhere near as reliable defensively... so to me, that's the thing holding his usage back, not his skating, or puck skill or viability as a two-way contributor.

He's about 50% more efficient than Grossmann at exiting the zone with possession, and his career points/game average is 2x Grossmann. Of course, the kicker has always been that he's nowhere near as reliable defensively... so to me, that's the thing holding his usage back, not his skating, or puck skill or viability as a two-way contributor.
- Tomahawk

All of us who have watched him regularly recognize the skill and ability. It's all about consistency with him. If he can find it, he will be a good player.

He's about 50% more efficient than Grossmann at exiting the zone with possession, and his career points/game average is 2x Grossmann. Of course, the kicker has always been that he's nowhere near as reliable defensively... so to me, that's the thing holding his usage back, not his skating, or puck skill or viability as a two-way contributor.
- Tomahawk

All of us who have watched him regularly recognize the skill and ability. It's all about consistency with him. If he can find it, he will be a good player.

I'm in, I saw enough late last season and in recent games to think that he will find a level of consistency soon and be a very solid physical shut down guy.
- BiggE

I'm not ready to say he can't; there's been a little more regression than I would have thought this season but I truly believe that a few guys can redeem themselves for how uneven they've been this year with a strong finish to the season.

I don't care about JVR. I just want Schenn to play how he did last season. If he does that -- and clearly, he's capable of it because he was good for 40-plus games last season -- then if he is not traded for a huge piece somehow, he's more than capable of being a valuable player for the Flyers.

That wouldn't happen in a million years
- PhillySportsGuy

Now I want to it happen just to see what you will say... lol ha ha ha.

Now I want to it happen just to see what you will say... lol ha ha ha.
- SchennBros

I don't because then the Rangers would get better.

Callahan is such an overrated player.

How would I know? Simply look at what top defenseman have been available since Pronger went down. More then it being Holmgren's approach, is that it's been the only approach available. But that apparently is not part of the picture when criticizing the GM.
- MJL

yes....how would you know? anybody is available for a price.... and was JVR for L Schenn not open to scrutiny? that basically was a waisted asset....It is pretty realistic to assume Holmgren could have gotten more or done a better job in the player coming back......Again I ask How do you know whats open to him ???...PURE CONJECTURE on your part.
Holmgren has generated a laundry list of mistakes in the last few years, and what is evident is the D is a below average bunch that lacks a "franchise type".
you were bang on with piece mail approach....Perhaps Holmgren "over Values" his own assets?

yes....how would you know? anybody is available for a price.... and was JVR for L Schenn not open to scrutiny? that basically was a waisted asset....It is pretty realistic to assume Holmgren could have gotten more or done a better job in the player coming back......Again I ask How do you know whats open to him ???...PURE CONJECTURE on your part.
Holmgren has generated a laundry list of mistakes in the last few years, and what is evident is the D is a below average bunch that lacks a "franchise type".
you were bang on with piece mail approach....Perhaps Holmgren "over Values" his own assets?
- landros 2

So what would it take for LA to part with Doughty? If its so easy. And by the way, it IS conjecture, but its based on some pretty sound logic. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that players like this are not available.

Kind of. Coburn is a bit of a wanderer sometimes. He's just physical enough but not really a punishing player. When schenn is on his game, he's not fun to play against. I just think schenn has more to offer than what we've seen this year. I like Coburn too and I feel they are different types of players despite being similar in size.
- PhillySportsGuy

Playoff Coburn is not much fun to play against either.

yes....how would you know? anybody is available for a price.... and was JVR for L Schenn not open to scrutiny? that basically was a waisted asset....It is pretty realistic to assume Holmgren could have gotten more or done a better job in the player coming back......Again I ask How do you know whats open to him ???...PURE CONJECTURE on your part.
Holmgren has generated a laundry list of mistakes in the last few years, and what is evident is the D is a below average bunch that lacks a "franchise type".
you were bang on with piece mail approach....Perhaps Holmgren "over Values" his own assets?
- landros 2

I think its reasonable to be upset with Homer about the mix of defenseman they have, but I don't think its fair for you to blame Homer for the lack of a franchise defenseman.

He was put in a difficult position with the Pronger injury. I think he felt Pronger could carry the defense for 5 years while he built it up through the draft. Couple that with Mez being severely injured and he was left in a bad place.

There are very few teams that could withstand a career ending injury to their #1 dman.

Playoff Coburn is not much fun to play against either.
- jmatchett383

The Nose knows when its playoff time.

So what would it take for LA to part with Doughty? If its so easy. And by the way, it IS conjecture, but its based on some pretty sound logic. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that players like this are not available.
- MBFlyerfan

Oh come on now. You know damn well that LA is just begging for someone to give them a reasonable offer so they can unload Doughty.

Oh come on now. You know damn well that LA is just begging for someone to give them a reasonable offer so they can unload Doughty.
- jmatchett383

I hear they're furious with Kopitar for beating Switzerland and delaying his return to the team. He can be had for a 2nd and Cousins.

yes....how would you know? anybody is available for a price.... and was JVR for L Schenn not open to scrutiny? that basically was a waisted asset....It is pretty realistic to assume Holmgren could have gotten more or done a better job in the player coming back......Again I ask How do you know whats open to him ???...PURE CONJECTURE on your part.
Holmgren has generated a laundry list of mistakes in the last few years, and what is evident is the D is a below average bunch that lacks a "franchise type".
you were bang on with piece mail approach....Perhaps Holmgren "over Values" his own assets?
- landros 2

He's been trying. He's pursued every good defenseman who has hit the market since Pronger got hurt.

The trouble is, the true top pair guys cost a lot. A 34 year old Pronger cost them a lot, you think a 28 year old Weber won't be an excessive cost? Even guys like Shattenkirk or Yandle, who are good, but not on that level will be expensive, and then there are holes to fill elsewhere