You would give up Couturier and the Flyers first for him?
- PhillySportsGuy

No, but that doesn't mean I don't like him from games I've watched over 2 years.

Laundry list.....

Bryz- disaster........check
JVR for Schenn........check
Bobrovsky for draft picks......check.
Timo for 6 mill. This year......yea right.
Over inflated free agent contracts for players on down side of career......see Streit and Vinny.
An assortment of no trade and no movement clauses signed in last few years that further hamper team going forward.
All this in the last 3 years.....

What context do you need? You simply argue that Holmgren had no options...like those are the facts!!!!!!..yes it's tough to trade for quality d.....but it's also true that the Flyers have some young assets that could form a deal in comparison to others.....to argue that the Schenn deal for JVR is anything but a fleecing is simply foolish.....you pretend to know what the asking prices are for top their d men, and simply say the price is to high.....
Simply put Holmgren has done a below average job in the last 3 years.....the Flyers have a below average d......they are fighting tooth and nail for the playoffs this year after missing the playoffs last year.....and yet you seem to hold our dolt of a GM above criticism.......I simply don't.

- landros 2

Still early but I have a few favorites....
- ob18

would love an offensive righthanded Finnish defenseman

Laundry list.....

Bryz- disaster........check
JVR for Schenn........check
Bobrovsky for draft picks......check.
Timo for 6 mill. This year......yea right.
Over inflated free agent contracts for players on down side of career......see Streit and Vinny.
An assortment of no trade and no movement clauses signed in last few years that further hamper team going forward.
All this in the last 3 years.....

What context do you need? You simply argue that Holmgren had no options...like those are the facts!!!!!!..yes it's tough to trade for quality d.....but it's also true that the Flyers have some young assets that could form a deal in comparison to others.....to argue that the Schenn deal for JVR is anything but a fleecing is simply foolish.....you pretend to know what the asking prices are for top their d men, and simply say the price is to high.....
Simply put Holmgren has done a below average job in the last 3 years.....the Flyers have a below average d......they are fighting tooth and nail for the playoffs this year after missing the playoffs last year.....and yet you seem to hold our dolt of a GM above criticism.......I simply don't.

- landros 2

The goalie mistakes have been corrected. Signing Timonen was a good move. He's been a good dman for them this year. Better than anything else they could have gotten for that amount. The Streit deal looks alright so far. Vinny deal hasn't looked so good.

I would have rather gotten a better puck mover for JVR, but I don't think Schenn is a waste of space like you do.

No, but that doesn't mean I don't like him from games I've watched over 2 years.
- ob18

How has Honka looked on defense? Does he get pushed around at all or does he hold his own?

- BulliesPhan87

And yet I still watch.

I think it should be donated to the host of the draft, as a token of good will
- BulliesPhan87

The goalie mistakes have been corrected. Signing Timonen was a good move. He's been a good dman for them this year. Better than anything else they could have gotten for that amount. The Streit deal looks alright so far. Vinny deal hasn't looked so good.

I would have rather gotten a better puck mover for JVR, but I don't think Schenn is a waste of space like you do.
- PhillySportsGuy

Goalie corrected......I hope your proved right.
Streit....he's been ok....not sure how it looks two years down the road.....he ain't 20 something anymore.
I didn't call Schenn a waste of space.....I just feel JVR could have garnered a more talented return....

Jordan Eberle ‏@ebs_14
Does anyone know if in NHL 15 they will have corsi?

Goalie corrected......I hope your proved right.
Streit....he's been ok....not sure how it looks two years down the road.....he ain't 20 something anymore.
I didn't call Schenn a waste of space.....I just feel JVR could have garnered a more talented return....
- landros 2

I don't think Schenn is a bad player. He's showed the ability to be a good defensive defenseman last season. I just thought he was redundant with Grossmann already on the roster and signed for 4 more years. Plus, defensive defenseman are easier to obtain than 2way defenseman.

You're discounting some of the good moves Homer has made though.
Coburn
Timonen
Hartnell
Leino
Carle
Mez
Voracek and Couts trade
Simmer and B. Schenn trade
Mason
Read
Raffl

Every GM has his regrettable decisions.

The goalie mistakes have been corrected. Signing Timonen was a good move. He's been a good dman for them this year. Better than anything else they could have gotten for that amount. The Streit deal looks alright so far. Vinny deal hasn't looked so good.

I would have rather gotten a better puck mover for JVR, but I don't think Schenn is a waste of space like you do.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed
Overall I think Holmgren has done a good job. The Pronger injury would be a nightmare for any GM and at least some of the blame for the Bryz fiasco has to be on Snider. Does Holmgren make mistakes? Of course, all GMs do. However his first round selections have been pretty good, he's made more good trades than bad, and showed much more patience with coaches than Clarke did.

While some clamor for Hextall and others hope for a new GM from outside, all I can say is careful what you wish for. In 6 full seasons as GM Holmgren's teams went to the playoffs 5 times, to the finals once and have an overall series record of 7-5. Thats pretty solid.

And yet I still watch.

- landros 2

That's all you can do, unless Mr. Snider gives you the call. I don't think he's frequented this forum lately.

That's all you can do, unless Mr. Snider gives you the call. I don't think he's frequented this forum lately.
- BulliesPhan87

That would require culture change or perhaps he doesn't have wifi on his private jet

- BulliesPhan87

I'm crying. That was perfect

Laundry list.....

Bryz- disaster........check
JVR for Schenn........check
Bobrovsky for draft picks......check.
Timo for 6 mill. This year......yea right.
Over inflated free agent contracts for players on down side of career......see Streit and Vinny.
An assortment of no trade and no movement clauses signed in last few years that further hamper team going forward.
All this in the last 3 years.....

What context do you need? You simply argue that Holmgren had no options...like those are the facts!!!!!!..yes it's tough to trade for quality d.....but it's also true that the Flyers have some young assets that could form a deal in comparison to others.....to argue that the Schenn deal for JVR is anything but a fleecing is simply foolish.....you pretend to know what the asking prices are for top their d men, and simply say the price is to high.....
Simply put Holmgren has done a below average job in the last 3 years.....the Flyers have a below average d......they are fighting tooth and nail for the playoffs this year after missing the playoffs last year.....and yet you seem to hold our dolt of a GM above criticism.......I simply don't.

- landros 2

The JVR for Schenn trade is not a fleecing. No where near it. Calling it a fleecing is what's foolish.
Where would the Flyers be this year without Kimmo Timonen? What would the defense that you call average look like without Timonen? Who else could they have gotten to play in the situations that Timonen plays in? What risk was there in signing Timonen to a one year deal for 6M?
The Bryzgalov deal did not work out, that's for sure. But I blame the player more then I do Holmgren. The Flyers needed a goaltender, and went out and signed the top goaltender available, who was a recent Vezina finalist. The player didn't play up to the contract. I have no problem with the Bobrovsky trade and how that played out. I didn't expect him to win the Vezina, and we'll see if he lives up to that level the rest of his career. And in the end we have Mason. I'm happy with that. We'll see how that plays out.
the Streit signing was neccessary. The Flyers needed a puck mover on the back end, and they needed a player with a big point shot. Streit's deal is reasonable. And again, in regards to context that we talked about previously. If Pronger doesn't get hurt, do you think Holmgren signs Streit?
The Lecavalier signing was a flat out steal of a deal. I love that signing. No brainer. before the back injury, he was scoring at a 30+ goal pace. And he was a hard player on the puck, and a hard player at the net. That signing cost the Flyers zero player assets. And when he get's back to 100%, he'll be that player again. And gives the Flyers a solid veteran scoring line player.
Look around the League and see players that are signed to deals with movement clauses. Find out that the Flyers aren't different then other teams in that regard. Fact of life in the NHL.

And finally, I don't hold Holmgren above criticism. But I do look at what he's done objectively and without bias. And I give the reasons why I think what I think. Rather then just post check, as if it's self evident and not debatable.

"You rake leaves now"

"But there aren't any leaves."

"Gustav, shoot him."

"OW, MY KNEECAP!"

"You see leaves now?"
- jmatchett383

I'm crying. That was perfect
- Giroux_Is_God

Crying??
There's no crying in hockeybuzz!!

However complaining, whining, ranting and massive booze consumption are highly encouraged!!

I don't think Schenn is a bad player. He's showed the ability to be a good defensive defenseman last season. I just thought he was redundant with Grossmann already on the roster and signed for 4 more years. Plus, defensive defenseman are easier to obtain than 2way defenseman.

You're discounting some of the good moves Homer has made though.
Coburn
Timonen
Hartnell
Leino
Carle
Mez
Voracek and Couts trade
Simmer and B. Schenn trade
Mason
Read
Raffl

Every GM has his regrettable decisions.
- PhillySportsGuy

His just appear to be mounting in the wrong direction......most good teams are built through the draft.....when's the last time the flyers drafted someone outside the first round that is still around ? Or a home grown defenceman with high upside....I have liked some of the moves but his misses are mounting.

Agreed
Overall I think Holmgren has done a good job. The Pronger injury would be a nightmare for any GM and at least some of the blame for the Bryz fiasco has to be on Snider. Does Holmgren make mistakes? Of course, all GMs do. However his first round selections have been pretty good, he's made more good trades than bad, and showed much more patience with coaches than Clarke did.

While some clamor for Hextall and others hope for a new GM from outside, all I can say is careful what you wish for. In 6 full seasons as GM Holmgren's teams went to the playoffs 5 times, to the finals once and have an overall series record of 7-5. Thats pretty solid.
- BiggE

No laundry list?

would love an offensive righthanded Finnish defenseman
- wilsonecho91

I'd be happy landing the BPA who is one that can also fill a need.

That would require culture change or perhaps he doesn't have wifi on his private jet

- BiggE

I imagine he usually logs in via this device

I don't think Schenn is a bad player. He's showed the ability to be a good defensive defenseman last season. I just thought he was redundant with Grossmann already on the roster and signed for 4 more years. Plus, defensive defenseman are easier to obtain than 2way defenseman.

You're discounting some of the good moves Homer has made though.
Coburn
Timonen
Hartnell
Leino
Carle
Mez
Voracek and Couts trade
Simmer and B. Schenn trade
Mason
Read
Raffl

Every GM has his regrettable decisions.
- PhillySportsGuy

wish the pens wouldve scooped him up instead.

No laundry list?
- MJL

My wife does the laundry, I just handle putting out trash and cold weather dog walking

- tangent_man

Solid.

My favorite is Who Dun It. The one with "The Goon" (and Shemp)

I imagine he usually logs in via this device

- BulliesPhan87

Blast that Mr Edison and his newfangled inventions!