It's not just a matter of what Holmgren wants to do, either. He can be ready to sell the farm for a franchise defenseman all he wants, it doesn't matter if nobody is making such a player available. Not that easy at all.
- BulliesPhan87

Very good point. Scott Niedermayer left NJ as a UFA, to play on a team with his brother. Nashville turned down 4 first rounders and matched an insane contract to keep Weber.

When a legit number one defenseman moves, it's usually because the team is rebuilding or the player has basically told the team he's leaving or wants out.

When the Ducks acquired Pronger, it was because he wanted out of Edmonton. When the Flyers got him, they gave up a 30 goal NHL winger, a recent 1st round pick and two additional first rounders, for a 34 year old defenseman.

They also were starting a pretty fair retooling process of their own at the time.

All kidding aside the only franchise dman that is remotely available would be Weber and Nashville's asking price will something along the lines of Voracek, both Schenns, Morin and 2 firsts. I just don't see it happening.

I also don't want to see them ridiculously overpay for a guy like Niskanen or move Couturier and a 1st for a guy like Yandle. Maybe they can make a deal for a guy like Edler without breaking the bank as it seems like he is not one of Torts favorites, but in all likelihood we are just going to have to wait until some of the kids start to develop for this D to significantly improve.
- BiggE

Even Edler would cost more than I'd be willing to give. He's right there with the J-Bo's of the world. Like you said, we'll just have to go with what we have, and hope one of Morin/Hagg/Ghost/Alt/Akeson turn out to be that impact player.

All kidding aside the only franchise dman that is remotely available would be Weber and Nashville's asking price will something along the lines of Voracek, both Schenns, Morin and 2 firsts. I just don't see it happening.

I also don't want to see them ridiculously overpay for a guy like Niskanen or move Couturier and a 1st for a guy like Yandle. Maybe they can make a deal for a guy like Edler without breaking the bank as it seems like he is not one of Torts favorites, but in all likelihood we are just going to have to wait until some of the kids start to develop for this D to significantly improve.
- BiggE

I'll take heat for this, but if the deal today was Voracek, both Schenns, Morin and 2 firsts...I'd say "you can have Morin and one first, or both firsts and not Morin."

Yeah. I'd do it. I'd absolutely (frank)ing do it, and take my chances.

The Flyers have always been a "Best Player Available" sort of team, when it comes to drafting.

I'd be surprised if they made such a move in the draft.
- johndewar

Didnt they move up for Ouellet, Pitkanen, Niinimaa, & Sbisa?

What do you think about the defense in the minors? Do we have guys that are ready to play next year? I read and article over on comcast that some people think Morin might be penciled in next year. Does Ghostisbere get a shot too?

Sorry. I read Bill's blogs a lot, but I cant remember the last time I posted... Didn't even realize I had an account until I tried to sign up and said my e-mail was already used...lol Speaking of which... Anyway to change a screen-name.... Its like in Indiana Jones.... "he did not choose well." lol
- SchennBros

Maybe Ghost next year (maybe) as he is older than Morin. Ghost has AHL eligibility at this point, so anything is possible with him (i.e.--if he doesn't make the team out of camp, he can go to ADK or Lehigh Valley or wherever the hell the Phantoms are playing next year).

I'd be really surprised to see Morin in Philly next year outside of a 9 or 10 game tryout at the beginning of the year.

What do you think about the defense in the minors? Do we have guys that are ready to play next year? I read and article over on comcast that some people think Morin might be penciled in next year. Does Ghostisbere get a shot too?

Sorry. I read Bill's blogs a lot, but I cant remember the last time I posted... Didn't even realize I had an account until I tried to sign up and said my e-mail was already used...lol Speaking of which... Anyway to change a screen-name.... Its like in Indiana Jones.... "he did not choose well." lol
- SchennBros

Lauridsen will get a shot, especially if one of Grossmann/Schenn goes. Alt will challenge for a spot. Morin probably returns for at least another year. Ghost probably starts in the AHL, may get called up.

If anything major DOES happen I think Laughton is the key piece to the deal. And could very well go down just like this.
- MBFlyerfan

Think about it: in the forseeable future, is Laughton one of our top 2 centers? Is he even in the top-6? It all depends on how good management thinks he truly can be.

Right now? You could sell him as a possible future 1st line center and at a bare minimum a good top-6 guy. I could see a team like the Coyotes interested in such a swap.

Lots of good young D like Gormley and Murphy, but lack offensive power. Just better get back a guy you know is going to at some point contribute.

All kidding aside the only franchise dman that is remotely available would be Weber and Nashville's asking price will something along the lines of Voracek, both Schenns, Morin and 2 firsts. I just don't see it happening.

I also don't want to see them ridiculously overpay for a guy like Niskanen or move Couturier and a 1st for a guy like Yandle. Maybe they can make a deal for a guy like Edler without breaking the bank as it seems like he is not one of Torts favorites, but in all likelihood we are just going to have to wait until some of the kids start to develop for this D to significantly improve.
- BiggE

I like Ehrhoff. He might be able to be had for a first rounder or prospect. He won't cost the Flyers a significant asset. He's signed until he's 37, but his cap hit is pretty friendly. He's a solid two-way player he can take Kimmo's role when he retires.

Think about it: in the forseeable future, is Laughton one of our top 2 centers? Is he even in the top-6? It all depends on how good management thinks he truly can be.

Right now? You could sell him as a possible future 1st line center and at a bare minimum a good top-6 guy. I could see a team like the Coyotes interested in such a swap.

Lots of good young D like Gormley and Murphy, but lack offensive power. Just better get back a guy you know is going to at some point contribute.
- mochoson

He's averaging close to 2 points per game while playing a "shutdown" role for Oshawa. I don't think he'll be a big time scorer, but he, clearly, has offensive ability.

Didnt they move up for Ouellet, Pitkanen, Niinimaa, & Sbisa?
- SchennBros

I don't think they moved up at the draft to target one player. I think they had acquired those picks prior to the draft.

As a side, I just checked. the Flyers traded Fedotenko and 2 2nds (nobodues) for the #4 pick used to take Pitkanen. In hindsight...that hurt.

What do you think about the defense in the minors? Do we have guys that are ready to play next year? I read and article over on comcast that some people think Morin might be penciled in next year. Does Ghostisbere get a shot too?

Sorry. I read Bill's blogs a lot, but I cant remember the last time I posted... Didn't even realize I had an account until I tried to sign up and said my e-mail was already used...lol Speaking of which... Anyway to change a screen-name.... Its like in Indiana Jones.... "he did not choose well." lol
- SchennBros

Alt has a shot next season. They could fast track one of the others, but Morin is still pretty raw, Hagg is likely to stay in Europe next year, Gostisbehere is probably not ready to step in as he is small and the feeling is he'll need to get stronger.

It's likely that it will be 3-5 years before the young guys they have drafted or acquired will be legitimate difference makers in the NHL.

All kidding aside the only franchise dman that is remotely available would be Weber and Nashville's asking price will something along the lines of Voracek, both Schenns, Morin and 2 firsts. I just don't see it happening.

I also don't want to see them ridiculously overpay for a guy like Niskanen or move Couturier and a 1st for a guy like Yandle. Maybe they can make a deal for a guy like Edler without breaking the bank as it seems like he is not one of Torts favorites, but in all likelihood we are just going to have to wait until some of the kids start to develop for this D to significantly improve.
- BiggE

Why do we need a franchise d-man.... or even an elite d-man. I would be happy with a number 1 d-man.

IMO when we got Timonen he wasn't a franchise D-man. He was barely boarderline E-lite. Maybe not even that. But he was a Number 1 guy, and he served us well. I think that is what we need. Not Weber, not Yandle, not Big Buff.

I don't think they moved up at the draft to target one player. I think they had acquired those picks prior to the draft.
- jmatchett383

I think they moved up for Pitkanen. I thought the Sbisa pick came from trading Umberger.

Didnt they move up for Ouellet, Pitkanen, Niinimaa, & Sbisa?
- SchennBros

Pretty sure they moved up for Pitkanen (they traded Rusty Fedotenko and 2 2nd rounders).

Not sure about they others. I'm fairly certain Janne wasn't a first round picks. Ouellet and Sbisa were drafted in the spots the Flyers were supposed to pick, I think.

What do you think about the defense in the minors? Do we have guys that are ready to play next year? I read and article over on comcast that some people think Morin might be penciled in next year. Does Ghostisbere get a shot too?

Sorry. I read Bill's blogs a lot, but I cant remember the last time I posted... Didn't even realize I had an account until I tried to sign up and said my e-mail was already used...lol Speaking of which... Anyway to change a screen-name.... Its like in Indiana Jones.... "he did not choose well." lol
- SchennBros

From what I've seen, heard or read:
Lauridsen: Most likely ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season

Alt: Probably won't be ready for a full time NHL spot before 15-16, his ceiling is probably as an all around 2nd pair guy

Manning: Most likely will never be more than a 6/7 guy

Ghost: Still needs to gets stronger, probably won't be ready before 15-16 at the earliest and may only be a 3rd pair, pp specialist

Hagg: Not even sure if he comes to North America next year or stays in Sweden. Either way he needs to find more consistency in his game and probably doesn't make the big club before 16-17

Morin: If you go by the Flyers track record, they could rush him. In a perfect world, he would play in the AHL next season, but that is not an option. Most likely he goes back to Junior next year and starts 15-16 with the Phantoms. I think he will be in their top 4 by the end of the 16-17 season and hopefully develop into a top pair shut down guy by 18-19 or so.

What do you think about the defense in the minors? Do we have guys that are ready to play next year? I read and article over on comcast that some people think Morin might be penciled in next year. Does Ghostisbere get a shot too?

Sorry. I read Bill's blogs a lot, but I cant remember the last time I posted... Didn't even realize I had an account until I tried to sign up and said my e-mail was already used...lol Speaking of which... Anyway to change a screen-name.... Its like in Indiana Jones.... "he did not choose well." lol
- SchennBros

I feel your pain, usernames are not subject to change.

I like Ehrhoff. He might be able to be had for a first rounder or prospect. He won't cost the Flyers a significant asset. He's signed until he's 37, but his cap hit is pretty friendly. He's a solid two-way player he can take Kimmo's role when he retires.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd be very happy with Erhoff at the right price.

Why do we need a franchise d-man.... or even an elite d-man. I would be happy with a number 1 d-man.

IMO when we got Timonen he wasn't a franchise D-man. He was barely boarderline E-lite. Maybe not even that. But he was a Number 1 guy, and he served us well. I think that is what we need. Not Weber, not Yandle, not Big Buff.
- SchennBros

Timonen was absolutely elite. Killed penalties, QB'd the pp and was the top guy on the top pair both here and for his last couple years in Nashville.

Didnt they move up for Ouellet, Pitkanen, Niinimaa, & Sbisa?
- SchennBros

Not really. They didn't trade up to specifically take any of them.

Niinimaa was a second rounder, not even sure when they acquired the pick, although they did trade for it. Ouellet was their own pick in 1999 and in the case of Pitkanen, they traded up into the top four, hoping to get one of him, Nash, Lehtonen or Bouwmeester.

In the case of Sbisa, they supposedly wanted goalie Chet Pickard who was drafted by Nashville with the pick before their selection.

Pretty sure they moved up for Pitkanen (they traded Rusty Fedotenko and 2 2nd rounders).

Not sure about they others. I'm fairly certain Janne wasn't a first round picks. Ouellet and Sbisa were drafted in the spots the Flyers were supposed to pick, I think.
- johndewar

Niinimaa was a 2nd, I think

From what I've seen, heard or read:
Lauridsen: Most likely ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season

Alt: Probably won't be ready for a full time NHL spot before 15-16, his ceiling is probably as an all around 2nd pair guy

Manning: Most likely will never be more than a 6/7 guy

Ghost: Still needs to gets stronger, probably won't be ready before 15-16 at the earliest and may only be a 3rd pair, pp specialist

Hagg: Not even sure if he comes to North America next year or stays in Sweden. Either way he needs to find more consistency in his game and probably doesn't make the big club before 16-17

Morin: If you go by the Flyers track record, they could rush him. In a perfect world, he would play in the AHL next season, but that is not an option. Most likely he goes back to Junior next year and starts 15-16 with the Phantoms. I think he will be in their top 4 by the end of the 16-17 season and hopefully develop into a top pair shut down guy by 18-19 or so.
- BiggE

OK. Say this is true -- and there's no real reason to dispute any of this.

My question is this: Can we win with what we think these players will do, if these are their actual ceilings, no "fan inflation" of values?

Because right there, you kinda see, well...the mix we already have.

He's averaging close to 2 points per game while playing a "shutdown" role for Oshawa. I don't think he'll be a big time scorer, but he, clearly, has offensive ability.
- PhillySportsGuy

How much of that has to do with the fact that he's basically a man amongst boys? I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think right now, you could probably get an equally talented young dman that is right where Laughton is in his development: ready for NHL ice time next season or big minutes in the AHL/first guy called up.

From what I've seen, heard or read:
Lauridsen: Most likely ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season

Alt: Probably won't be ready for a full time NHL spot before 15-16, his ceiling is probably as an all around 2nd pair guy

Manning: Most likely will never be more than a 6/7 guy

Ghost: Still needs to gets stronger, probably won't be ready before 15-16 at the earliest and may only be a 3rd pair, pp specialist

Hagg: Not even sure if he comes to North America next year or stays in Sweden. Either way he needs to find more consistency in his game and probably doesn't make the big club before 16-17

Morin: If you go by the Flyers track record, they could rush him. In a perfect world, he would play in the AHL next season, but that is not an option. Most likely he goes back to Junior next year and starts 15-16 with the Phantoms. I think he will be in their top 4 by the end of the 16-17 season and hopefully develop into a top pair shut down guy by 18-19 or so.
- BiggE

Not really. They didn't trade up to specifically take any of them.

Niinimaa was a second rounder, not even sure when they acquired the pick, although they did trade for it. Ouellet was their own pick in 1999 and in the case of Pitkanen, they traded up into the top four, hoping to get one of him, Nash, Lehtonen or Bouwmeester.

In the case of Sbisa, they supposedly wanted goalie Chet Pickard who was drafted by Nashville with the pick before their selection.
- Jsaquella

Chet Pickard LOL
I'm pretty sure I saw both him and Oulette on the same milk carton!

I'd be very happy with Erhoff at the right price.
- BiggE

He's probably available, but it will be for a young center, one of our prospect defensemen, or high (high-esque) picks.

Does he make the Flyers a better team? Yes. But I'm not sure he's part of the solution in a Cup team.

Actually, the more I think about it...it's not a bad idea, as long as we didn't have to give up a ton (no top prospect/1st rounder/Schenn or Coots).