I usually prefer 2nd pair myself. I do think MacDonald's mobility and puck moving ability slots him ahead of Grossmann & Schenn, but he's not a guy who would be playing 25 minutes on a good team.

Ideally, he'll see 18-20 minutes, against secondary competition as a Flyer.
- Jsaquella

I agree. And that is going to make McDonald a better player, and in a better spot for him.

I can't take credit for this, but I think this looks good. Barring any other moves.

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Streit -McDonald.

Pairings can be mixed for game situations and on the PK.
- MJL

A certain banned someone sent this to you didn't they?

I like that lineup too. It puts together some familiar faces with each other.

You see potential as goals. This guy will score more goals so he had more potential.

Would you rather have Dan Girardi or Keith Yandle? Ryan McDonagh or Byfuglien?
- PhillySportsGuy

I would rather have Yandle and big buff......and Gardiner over Schenn at this point in career.....even more so if your talking the Flyers needs.

Berube has been very reluctant to use Gustafsson, for whatever reasons. I get it, and if nothing else, MacDonald is going to play and bring better mobility than Grossmann, Schenn & Meszaros currently do.
- Jsaquella

No doubt about it. I don't think the Flyers paid a king's ransom in terms of assets for MacDonald. A 2nd round pick in next years draft which is pretty deep, could sting. If MacDonald doesn't play well for the Flyers what happens? Do they sign him?

A certain banned someone sent this to you didn't they?

I like that lineup too. It puts together some familiar faces with each other.
- PhillySportsGuy

I cringe every time i read someone calling a guy like grossmann, luke, macdonald, etc a top 4 dman.... bottom 4 pretty well sums up all these guys. Top 4 makes them sound better than they really are.
- moylander

2nd pairing is probably more descriptive.

MacDonald is certainly a 2nd pairing guy. Perhaps Schenn is someday.

I agree.

Grossmann to (some contender...Montreal? Minnesota? I dunno...) for a 3rd.
- Giroux_Is_God

I think the trade will depend on who offers more for which player. If Mez can get a 2nd then they'll deal him.

I don't see either of them getting more than a 3rd.

I don't think Berube likes him. He has one bad game and gets benched.
- PhillySportsGuy

I just don't think they view him as sturdy enough in his own end because the mobility, passing, and shooting ability is okay to good, but not above average to make up for his deficiencies in his own end.

I think they trade one of their d-men tomorrow for a draft pick, and I think they are done. I am pleased to hopefully see tomorrow they didn't sell Coots, B. Schenn, or any of their prized prospects low to overspend on acquiring a very good, but not great d-man.

I would ask what is the basis for that? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but what's it based on? Just because?

Let's move off of Grossman, and discuss a more relevant player. Why, in your view, is McDonald not a top 4 defenseman in this League?
- MJL

because these guys would make poopty 1-2 dmen... but they can play well on the bottom 2 pairs.... thus bottom 4 dman is more apropriate. do you disagree?

2nd pairing is probably more descriptive.

MacDonald is certainly a 2nd pairing guy. Perhaps Schenn is someday.
- FlyerGuy

Schenn has played at a top 4 level in multiple Seasons in his career to this point, Unfortunately there has been an every other year pattern where he has regressed.

It would be great if MacDonald & Streit can be a stable second pair, but I'm not thrilled at the prospect of Grossmann-Schenn as a third pair.
- Jsaquella

Scary mobility for sure....maybe Holmgren has more up his sleeve...

Holy poop 77 pages long on a thread? Wow ive clearly been missing out

No doubt about it. I don't think the Flyers paid a king's ransom in terms of assets for MacDonald. A 2nd round pick in next years draft which is pretty deep, could sting. If MacDonald doesn't play well for the Flyers what happens? Do they sign him?
- PLindbergh31

No. It turns into a sunk cost. If it makes you feel any better at least they will have avoided a lengthy bad contract (again)

because these guys would make poopty 1-2 dmen... but they can play well on the bottom 2 pairs.... thus bottom 4 dman is more apropriate. do you disagree?
- moylander

I misunderstood what you said. I would agree that I would not classify those players as top pair defenseman. But then I have to ask, who has said, or has projected McDonald as a top pair defenseman?

Holy poop 77 pages long on a thread? Wow ive clearly been missing out
- justahockeyguy2

Start from the beginning. I don't want you to miss anything.

I think the trade will depend on who offers more for which player. If Mez can get a 2nd then they'll deal him.

I don't see either of them getting more than a 3rd.
- PhillySportsGuy

Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Homer to not deal anyone from the back end and give Chief options back there. Plus, there's always the inevitable stretch run injury to a defensman.

No. It turns into a sunk cost. If it makes you feel any better at least they will have avoided a lengthy bad contract (again)
- PhillySportsGuy

Well he hasn't played a game yet. We will see how he plays.

At least he won't be a "scapegoat" or a "whipping boy" plenty of those already.

Schenn has played at a top 4 level in multiple Seasons in his career to this point, Unfortunately there has been an every other year pattern where he has regressed.
- MJL

That's the concern for sure....then again if his baby brother is moved out , he is probably on the seat next to him on the flight...

I misunderstood what you said. I would agree that I would not classify those players as top pair defenseman. But then I have to ask, who has said, or has projected McDonald as a top pair defenseman?
- MJL

re-read my comment. most everyone is calling these guys a top 4 damn... which maybe they are as a 2nd pairing... but I said I cringe when I hear that because in reality they are all BOTTOM 4 dmen. top 4 makes them sound better than they really are.

I just don't think they view him as sturdy enough in his own end because the mobility, passing, and shooting ability is okay to good, but not above average to make up for his deficiencies in his own end.

I think they trade one of their d-men tomorrow for a draft pick, and I think they are done. I am pleased to hopefully see tomorrow they didn't sell Coots, B. Schenn, or any of their prized prospects low to overspend on acquiring a very good, but not great d-man.
- ravishingone

I don't remember Gus being stuck in his own end a lot. He and Schenn seemed to play well together. I just don't understand why they can't stick with Mez or Gus for an extended period of time. Its difficult for anyone, including Schenn, to find a rhythm with ever changing partners.

No doubt about it. I don't think the Flyers paid a king's ransom in terms of assets for MacDonald. A 2nd round pick in next years draft which is pretty deep, could sting. If MacDonald doesn't play well for the Flyers what happens? Do they sign him?
- PLindbergh31

I believe they had every intention of re-signing him from the moment they made the trade, but if he comes in and is horrible, maybe that changes. Of course, they can afford to re-sign him quickly, at least right now, because they have the tagging room.

it's possible they re-sign him soon after the TDL

That's the concern for sure....then again if his baby brother is moved out , he is probably on the seat next to him on the flight...
- landros 2

I dont see Baby Schenn getting traded all by his lonesome. I am sure his brother will be going along with him

Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Homer to not deal anyone from the back end and give Chief options back there. Plus, there's always the inevitable stretch run injury to a defensman.
- Giroux_Is_God

Thats why Im most worried about. At 3pm the Flyers will have 9 defenseman on the roster. Every time a player turns the puck over, they'll be waiting to get benched.

Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Homer to not deal anyone from the back end and give Chief options back there. Plus, there's always the inevitable stretch run injury to a defensman.
- Giroux_Is_God

Homer's going out with a bang ... mark it down. Crazy ass trades all day tomorrow.

re-read my comment. most everyone is calling these guys a top 4 damn... which maybe they are as a 2nd pairing... but I said I cringe when I hear that because in reality they are all BOTTOM 4 dmen. top 4 makes them sound better than they really are.
- moylander

Well to be fair, top 4 is a widely used term to describe a defenseman. I haven't heard the term bottom 4 used much. But that's neither here nor there. A 2nd pair defenseman, which is what McDonald is, is a top 4 defenseman.