What do you mean? They don't have insurance on these players?
- PhillySportsGuy

Exactly -- the money's already outside the system, BECAUSE of LTIR. The team's aren't paying the salaries, and you're allowed to exceed the Cap, which, by definition, means that LTIR is simply an artificially induced mechanism that places limits on things such as bankable cap space and daily cap charges, which is ludicrous.

It has nothing to do with insurance.
- MJL

Explain why they can't amend for it to allow 35+ players, who are forced to retire due to a catastrophic, career ending injury, to be paid in full without counting against the cap or LTIR.

Just looking at FA for a bit of fun.

Like the idea of Ott replacing Rinaldo, assuming Laughton takes Downie's spot.

Other intriguing names:
Dan Boyle/Tallinder (if its a 1 year contract)
Gaborik
Pitkanen
Quincey
Hainsey
Fiddler

My dark-horse pick up, depending on the cost. Is Radim Vrbata.
- flyer_nutter

wow, (frank) them all

i'd take Fiddler though just because he's Bieksa impression is hilarious

They could, but they won't. The League already lost a bunch of money to the players on that deal.
- MJL

he was just suggesting that they 'should' (and I agree), not that they 'would'.

Didn't the bitcoin just tank recently?
- JAKEw1234

thats the joke some people think we should ditch our currencies for bitcoin

Because of the weakness in the Canadian dollar right now, the cap is actually expected to go up to about 68.5 million now, instead of 71.
- JAKEw1234

That sucks.

Exactly -- the money's already outside the system, BECAUSE of LTIR. The team's aren't paying the salaries, and you're allowed to exceed the Cap, which, by definition, means that LTIR is simply an artificially induced mechanism that places limits on things such as bankable cap space and daily cap charges, which is ludicrous.
- AllInForFlyers

Not true. LTIR money is not outside the system. All of the money paid to players on LTIR is accounted for in the salary cap. And therefore part of the players share. Money outside the system is salaries paid to players that are not accounted for in the salary cap.

I say we pay all of our players in yen.

Explain why they can't amend for it to allow 35+ players, who are forced to retire due to a catastrophic, career ending injury, to be paid in full without counting against the cap or LTIR.
- PhillySportsGuy

Because it would skew the players share. It's not accounted for in the Cap. The Cap is simply about limiting spending on player salaries. Nothing more. And how much each team can spend is based on HRR. And it's split 50/50 between players and the League. If money is paid to players that is not accounted for in the Cap, the players would get more then their share of HRR.

No matter what the CBA says/which imaginary pools of money exist to pay for things, there should be a clause that, in the specific case of a player who will never play again, he may retire without penalty to the team provided the team pay him his full remaining salary. Whether or not that is possible with the CBA is one thing, but logic is another.

Not true. LTIR money is not outside the system. All of the money paid to players on LTIR is accounted for in the salary cap. And therefore part of the players share. Money outside the system is salaries paid to players that are not accounted for in the salary cap.
- MJL

It IS true, for exactly what we're talking about.

The "system" doesn't preclude the member teams from spending to the Cap just because players are on LTIR.

Boston's not carrying a $7 million dollar hole on their Cap because Marc Savard isn't playing. He's still being paid, and the Bruins are still using his $7 million is salary space.

You can't spin that. That's exactly what's happening. The money is outside the system, because you can still spend the salary space!

Cap talk.

*lurks away*

Cap talk.

*lurks away*
- flyer_nutter

Oh no you don't.

(Channeling my inner Scorpion): GET OVER HERE!

Because of the weakness in the Canadian dollar right now, the cap is actually expected to go up to about 68.5 million now, instead of 71.
- JAKEw1234

Where did you read that? I know the exchange rate has effected escrow amounts for this season already, and I'm fond of trotting it out to counter those "cap is going up, overpaying is ok" arguments, but I really didn't expect it to impact next seasons upper limit so much. If it's true, Flyers are kind of (frank)ed.

Because it would skew the players share. It's not accounted for in the Cap. The Cap is simply about limiting spending on player salaries. Nothing more. And how much each team can spend is based on HRR. And it's split 50/50 between players and the League. If money is paid to players that is not accounted for in the Cap, the players would get more then their share of HRR.
- MJL

But they can account for it against the cap without penalizing teams cap space. There's no reason for it to be outside the system and unaccountable yet not on any individual teams books.

They're basically doing it now but forcing all this non sense on the clubs and the players.

Oh no you don't.

(Channeling my inner Scorpion): GET OVER HERE!
- jmatchett383

FINISH HIM

FINISH HIM
- 2Real

thats the joke some people think we should ditch our currencies for bitcoin
- 2Real

I thought it was hacked or something...

Talk about funny money.

Because it would skew the players share. It's not accounted for in the Cap. The Cap is simply about limiting spending on player salaries. Nothing more. And how much each team can spend is based on HRR. And it's split 50/50 between players and the League. If money is paid to players that is not accounted for in the Cap, the players would get more then their share of HRR.
- MJL

Isn't insurance paying for Pronger?

Because it would skew the players share. It's not accounted for in the Cap. The Cap is simply about limiting spending on player salaries. Nothing more. And how much each team can spend is based on HRR. And it's split 50/50 between players and the League. If money is paid to players that is not accounted for in the Cap, the players would get more then their share of HRR.
- MJL

Just take it out of escrow, like they do for any salary overage now.

But they can account for it against the cap without penalizing teams cap space. There's no reason for it to be outside the system and unaccountable yet not on any individual teams books.

They're basically doing it now but forcing all this non sense on the clubs and the players.
- mayorofangrytown

Other then having to account for the player in the off season, a team is not penalized for having a player on LTIR, that will never play again. And they have an off season 10% exemption to cover that.

Isn't insurance paying for Pronger?
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, it is -- that's been reported previously.

I have a degree in entrepreneurship and have taken several economics classes (almost enough to minor in it). I understand how the market works. I agree with what you're saying. This isn't the real world though. This is the NHL and they aren't going to EVER contract. Using those restraints, determining the best course of action can differ.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed, Bettman and the owners will never allow contraction. I do see 2 or 3 franchises relocating during the next decade along with the league adding 2 more clubs for a total of 32 teams, 16 in each conference.

Yes, it is -- that's been reported previously.
- AllInForFlyers

If the owners are not paying, and it's still being accounted against the players share, that's pretty shady.

Other then having to account for the player in the off season, a team is not penalized for having a player on LTIR, that will never play again. And they have an off season 10% exemption to cover that.
- MJL

No, you're penalized because the player can't retire -- that's what we've been saying.

Marc Savard can't retire and collect his salary -- and his career was ended. Same with Pronger.

Nobody wants LTIR to be abused with "back injuries." But catastrophic injuries are different, and LTIR shouldn't be used for players whose careers are medically determined to be over -- they can't even get clearance to play.