They did...Fraser mclaren ...the guy Rosehill fought.
- landros 2

I was actually kind of surprised Rosehill fared so well against Mclaren. Mclaren is much, much tougher normally.

They lost the game because of defensive breakdowns, and poor team defense on the goals against. I doubt having Downie in the lineup would've changed any of that.
- MJL

Downie's absence had a ripple effect on the 3rd and 4th lines, and neither line was that effective.

Considering they lost by a single goal I'd say it's ridiculous to proclaim there couldn't have been a different outcome with better 3rd and 4th lines.

They lost the game because of defensive breakdowns, and poor team defense on the goals against. I doubt having Downie in the lineup would've changed any of that.
- MJL

If the third line was together and they shut down the kessel there could have very well have been a trickle effect and increase in energy. No way to know now though.

Downie's absence had a ripple effect on the 3rd and 4th lines, and neither line was that effective.

Considering they lost by a single goal I'd say it's ridiculous to proclaim there couldn't have been a different outcome with better 3rd and 4th lines.
- FlyerGuy

I think it's ridiculous to think that the game came down to not having one player in the lineup, who hasn't been that effective lately. Rather then thinking the game came down to what actually happened in the game. If we're going to deal in hypothetical's, I can make the argument that Downie with his recent penchant for lacking discipline, could've taken some reckless penalties, which could've led to PP goals against.

If the third line was together and they shut down the kessel there could have very well have been a trickle effect and increase in energy. No way to know now though.
- FlyersSteve118

Raffl, who played on the 3rd line last night, is a much better defensive winger then Downie is.

Raffl, who played on the 3rd line last night, is a much better defensive winger then Downie is.
- MJL

but was the LINE a much better line with Raffl vs Downie? It didn't look that way to me.

I think it's ridiculous to think that the game came down to not having one player in the lineup, who hasn't been that effective lately. Rather then thinking the game came down to what actually happened in the game. If we're going to deal in hypothetical's, I can make the argument that Downie with his recent penchant for lacking discipline, could've taken some reckless penalties, which could've led to PP goals against.
- MJL

Not the Leafs lately. Their PP has been atrocious recently.

Raffl, who played on the 3rd line last night, is a much better defensive winger then Downie is.
- MJL

Never said that. Downie style of play just might help coots do what coots does. Crashing and banging in the corners might be more effective than raffl playing his defensive style.

All I'm saying is if the 3rd line was more effective against the kesselline we very well could have generated more offensive zone time which could have effected the game in any number of ways. And by the flyers passing game last night it could have resulted in more turnovers and we could have not even gotten a point. Who knows.

I think it's ridiculous to think that the game came down to not having one player in the lineup, who hasn't been that effective lately. Rather then thinking the game came down to what actually happened in the game. If we're going to deal in hypothetical's, I can make the argument that Downie with his recent penchant for lacking discipline, could've taken some reckless penalties, which could've led to PP goals against.
- MJL

I never said that.

I said that the Flyers would have had a better shot at winning with Downie playing, because the 3rd line would have been better AND the 4th line would have been competent.

edit: btw, if Downie was sick this point is moot. I wasn't sure if he was sick or scratched.

Holmgren: Steve, you have the flu tonight, OK?
Downie: Uh, no I feel fin...
Holmgren: No you don't you're sick with the flu, Rosie goes you rest up.

Never said that. Downie style of play just might help coots do what coots does. Crashing and banging in the corners might be more effective than raffl playing his defensive style.

All I'm saying is if the 3rd line was more effective against the kesselline we very well could have generated more offensive zone time which could have effected the game in any number of ways. And by the flyers passing game last night it could have resulted in more turnovers and we could have not even gotten a point. Who knows.
- FlyersSteve118

The matchups last night was the Giroux line against the Kessel line.

https://www.extraskater.c...-03-08-flyers-maple-leafs

I never said that.

I said that the Flyers would have had a better shot at winning with Downie playing, because the 3rd line would have been better AND the 4th line would have been competent.

edit: btw, if Downie was sick this point is moot. I wasn't sure if he was sick or scratched.
- FlyerGuy

What I read is that if the Flyers had Downie in the lineup and had a better 4th line, "I bet we would've won that game". If I misinterpreted that, my apologies.

The matchups last night was the Giroux line against the Kessel line.

https://www.extraskater.c...-03-08-flyers-maple-leafs
- MJL

Yes because they didn't have Downie.... it's what I'm trying to say.

Never said that. Downie style of play just might help coots do what coots does. Crashing and banging in the corners might be more effective than raffl playing his defensive style.

All I'm saying is if the 3rd line was more effective against the kesselline we very well could have generated more offensive zone time which could have effected the game in any number of ways. And by the flyers passing game last night it could have resulted in more turnovers and we could have not even gotten a point. Who knows.
- FlyersSteve118

100% agreed.

I know Raffl deserves more minutes, somehow, but I just didn't like him with Cooter. The whole "feel" of that line changes.

Yes because they didn't have Downie.... it's what I'm trying to say.
- FlyersSteve118

It had nothing to do with not having Downie. Whether Downie is in the lineup or not, Berube would still prefer Couturier against the Kessel line. It has to do with being on the road, and Leafs having last change.

Yes because they didn't have Downie.... it's what I'm trying to say.
- FlyersSteve118

Leafs had last change..... not sure how that has anything to do with matchups. I don't think Downie changes how the lines matched up.

Holmgren: Steve, you have the flu tonight, OK?
Downie: Uh, no I feel fin...
Holmgren: No you don't you're sick with the flu, Rosie goes you rest up.
- Pixote Andolini

Leafs had last change..... not sure how that has anything to do with matchups. I don't think Downie changes how the lines matched up.
- burn

It was just a hypothetical... Jesus people.

Is the third line really that much better with downie on it? Maybe a couple months ago, but I didn't see a huge drop off from tht line because downie wasn't in.

It was just a hypothetical... Jesus people.
- FlyersSteve118

I'm with you though... I've been saying I'd rather dress real players more often. We've had Orr and/or Mclaren dressed a lot (too much). They're just not contributing. I thought last night's game was McLAren's best all year.


I think we'd be better with better players on our 4th line.

At the start of the first the Flyers were attacking right away and had some nice cycles. The forwards got in deep and led to those 2 early goals by the Leafs. TO is a pretty fast skating team and it led to some good chances. I don't think the ref blew it on the disallowed goal. Had that been called a goal against them with mason covering the puck I would have been furious.

Loved Kimmo's smile after that second goal he scored.
I would like to see him come back next year, realize it is a long shot.

[quote=landros 2]Had 9th row seats at the top of the circle....so I got to watch up close on the winner ( and the first 2 on 4 shots for that matter) ...on the winner Streit assumed it was man to man coverage as he stuck with his guy Kadri as he entered zone...Vinny let his man go....and by the time he realized it it was too late ....not sure how the Flyers play 4on4 in their own end, but the play should not happen....mental error.
Game note ranged from, a very poor game for Grossman who had some bad bounces and doesn't seem to play with very much confidence.....L Schenn is better up close, he can really learn from Timo about how to use angles and position to cover up speed issue....Timo was great.....Vinny was invisible ...looked disinterested.
I really liked mobility of Streit and Macdonald....Macdonald is a keeper....
Top line looked great, but G really does need a sniper.....calls by the stripes were not good....that disallowed Flyer goal was awfull....the guy 80 feet away made the call!!!
Anyways was nice to get a point after the that start...


Couldn't agree with you more. I was also there and Vinny was awful. You really couldn't notice him at all. Streit does have great mobility, but having Vinny out there with him on a 4-4 can be dangerous.I just wish we could have moved Grossman instead of Mez, as Grosman looked slow and was a minus 3.
- 3flyerkids

I disagree about Streit. He is not particularly mobile for such an undersized defenseman. He does have good anticipation on the offensive side of the puck, and has a quick stick. It's when he gets on the wrong side of the puck or in a muscle-on-muscle battle down low that he gets in trouble.

Grossmann, who has become everyone's favorite whipping boy since January after being previously regarded for 2+ years as one of their more reliable Dmen, is a better defender than Meszaros. I do agree that his confidence looks down at times but he had been playing better over the last 10 games til a rough game last night.

Voracek and Giroux have good chemistry and each can bury a decent percentage of their chances. Voracek used to be reluctant to shoot the puck and was a pass-first player for much of his early career. He's gotten through that, though, and is much more willing nowadays to pull the trigger.

Is the third line really that much better with downie on it? Maybe a couple months ago, but I didn't see a huge drop off from tht line because downie wasn't in.
- funmaster18

It looked more tenacious with Downie, imo. With Raffl it looked a bit on the soft side.

And, by extension, the 4th line looked very solid with Raffl, and downright useless with Rosehill.

At the start of the first the Flyers were attacking right away and had some nice cycles. The forwards got in deep and led to those 2 early goals by the Leafs. TO is a pretty fast skating team and it led to some good chances. I don't think the ref blew it on the disallowed goal. Had that been called a goal against them with mason covering the puck I would have been furious.

Loved Kimmo's smile after that second goal he scored.
I would like to see him come back next year, realize it is a long shot.
- Marc D

Every year at the start I think he's done and every year and he proves me wrong and turns it on the second half. Love that guy.

It looked more tenacious with Downie, imo. With Raffl it looked a bit on the soft side.

And, by extension, the 4th line looked very solid with Raffl, and downright useless with Rosehill.
- FlyerGuy

I agree with the 4th line, but I think the 3rd line performance had more to do with having a new line mate and less to do with downie not playing. He's been frustrating lately, IMO.