I think Schenn can play both spots. And I don't see a clear difference between one or the other. Schenn has been playing center, and he 6 points in the last 15 games played. And 5 of those points have come in the last 7 games. Which means he scored 1 point in the 8 games before that. So he has the same inconsistency and dry spells in production at either position. And the difference between Schenn at Center or Wing, is not nearly as detrimental to the team as moving Lecavalier from Center to LW has been..
- MJL

What was his production without Vinny? Do you have those numbers handy? I remember a very good stretch with Hartnell and Simmonds.

They need to do something with Lecavalier, every time this unit gets on the ice they wind up getting pinned in the defensive zone and allow chances.
- ICUBB

I do agree. This line is terribly slow and not great defensively. But what can you do? Do you put Hartnell on the 2nd line and Vinny on top? That doesnt help anything. Do you move Simmonds to top line and move Voracek down? Help a little on the 2nd line, but now the top like has Hartnell and Simmonds... Do you move Vinny or Simmonds down a line in favor of Raffl or Read? No, cause then you hurt that line's defense. Do you stick him on the 4th line with Downie and Hall? Not sure that is going to be much better either.

Only thing you can really do is keep putting them out there against favorable match-ups during offensive zone draws only.

Its not just Lecavalier... its the combination of the 3.

I know what you are getting at, but Lecavalier can't play the LW at all and isn't as effective on RW as at C. But with B. Schenn also better at center and Lecavalier struggling defensively in one-on-one matchups, it creates a real dilemma about where and with whom to play Lecavalier. Berube has all but come and said it directly a couple times -- he dances around it in the most thinly veiled of ways.

The truth is that the most effective way to maximize Lecavalier offensively would be to move Giroux back to a wing for the first time in years and have Lecavalier center the top line. But that's not going to happen.
- bmeltzer

Maybe a 4th line of Downie-Vinny-Raffl could get themselves going. That would put Rinaldo or Hall on the 3rd checking line though, but I could deal with that.

I know what you are getting at, but Lecavalier can't play the LW at all and isn't as effective on RW as at C. But with B. Schenn also better at center and Lecavalier struggling defensively in one-on-one matchups, it creates a real dilemma about where and with whom to play Lecavalier. Berube has all but come and said it directly a couple times -- he dances around it in the most thinly veiled of ways.

The truth is that the most effective way to maximize Lecavalier offensively would be to move Giroux back to a wing for the first time in years and have Lecavalier center the top line. But that's not going to happen.
- bmeltzer

Maybe a 4th line of Downie-Vinny-Raffl could get themselves going. That would put Rinaldo or Hall on the 3rd checking line though, but I could deal with that.

After the game, Berube called it a 50-50 call that could have gone either way. I agree with him, and also agree that proposals to further expand the Situation Room's powers to almost carte blanche review powers would render on-ice officials unable to do their jobs.
- bmeltzer

This is strongly assuming they are capable to do their jobs right now.

Bill said it, and many of us have said it in the past... Vinny needs to be moved down to the 4th-line and used as a specialist. Ditto Streit... get him the hell away from Grossmann and carefully manage his defensive matchups.
- Tomahawk

I disagree with playing Lecavalier on the 4th line. That's a mistake, and it won't make the situation any better. Nor is it likely going to increas the production from Lecavalier. No coach is going to win every matchup battle in a game. Last change or not.

I still don't quite understand the Lecavalier signing. Either the Flyers thought he could successfully play wing or that Schenn could play wing. Turns out neither are good there and they again have too many Center's that are forced to play out of position. Poor choices by management, not to mention that you have Laughton waiting in the wings as another Center.

This is why I think they look to package B. Schenn in a deal for a defenseman in the offseason.

I think Schenn can play both spots. And I don't see a clear difference between one or the other. Schenn has been playing center, and he 6 points in the last 15 games played. And 5 of those points have come in the last 7 games. Which means he scored 1 point in the 8 games before that. So he has the same inconsistency and dry spells in production at either position. And the difference between Schenn at Center or Wing, is not nearly as detrimental to the team as moving Lecavalier from Center to LW has been..
- MJL

Nobody on that line is consistently scoring or putting up points. Take Simmonds off the PP, and what's his production look like? That line, as it's currently built, just isn't very good offensively, and has problems defensively.

If moving Schenn to wing is good for the line in the short-term, you do that. But you don't move a young player who is starting to show why he was a high first round draft pick to accommodate an injured, aging veteran.

What was his production without Vinny? Do you have those numbers handy? I remember a very good stretch with Hartnell and Simmonds.
- PhillySportsGuy

Specifically no. But he was leading the team in scoring for a stretch in the early Season playing Wing. Look at his game to game totals. The same pattern is there all Season.

Nobody on that line is consistently scoring or putting up points. Take Simmonds off the PP, and what's his production look like? That line, as it's currently built, just isn't very good offensively, and has problems defensively.

If moving Schenn to wing is good for the line in the short-term, you do that. But you don't move a young player who is starting to show why he was a high first round draft pick to accommodate an injured, aging veteran.
- wolfhounds

Simmonds had an incredible pace going when he was scoring just as much at ES as on the PP. But when Hartnell was taken off that line and lecavalier was put there they completely fell off the face of the earth. Lecavalier is absolutely murdering our teams possession stats. He brings down every single player on the ice. He needs fourth line minutes (unless we can bench him altogether?) and that is all there is to it.

Nobody on that line is consistently scoring or putting up points. Take Simmonds off the PP, and what's his production look like? That line, as it's currently built, just isn't very good offensively, and has some problems defensively.

If moving Schenn to wing is good for the line in the short-term, you do that. But you don't move a young player who is starting to show why he was a high first round draft pick to accommodate an injured, aging veteran.
- wolfhounds

He as showing the same promise playing Wing, and they moved him. I don't see a big difference between Center and Wing with Schenn. And when I look at his skill set and the kind of player he is, I think he's better suited to the Wing. he's not a great defender. He's not a playmaker or distributor of the puck. Nor is he a player that carries the puck a lot. He's plays a hard physical game and goes to the net well. That's his game in my opinion. Screams Wing to me.

Lecavalier can get stronger and get back to the player he was before the injury. If a temporary move to the 4th line can help him do it, fine. But I don't see that as a long term solution for a player signed to a multi year deal.

I disagree with playing Lecavalier on the 4th line. That's a mistake, and it won't make the situation any better. Nor is it likely going to increas the production from Lecavalier. No coach is going to win every matchup battle in a game. Last change or not.
- MJL

Priority should be winning games.

In his current state, Vinny isn't a top-9 player. Maybe his back/game improves and he gets back to that point, but right now, he's only hanging on to a top-9 spot due to past reputation and internal politics.

He as showing the same promise playing Wing, and they moved him. I don't see a big difference between Center and Wing with Schenn. And when I look at his skill set and the kind of player he is, I think he's better suited to the Wing. he's not a great defender. He's not a playmaker or distributor of the puck. Nor is he a player that carries the puck a lot. He's plays a hard physical game and goes to the net well. That's his game in my opinion. Screams Wing to me.

Lecavalier can get stronger and get back to the player he was before the injury. If a temporary move to the 4th line can help him do it, fine. But I don't see that as a long term solution for a player signed to a multi year deal.
- MJL

I agree w/you on Schenn... I think he has problems keeping his feet moving at times and that seems to get exacerbated when he's on the Wing.

Simmonds had an incredible pace going when he was scoring just as much at ES as on the PP. But when Hartnell was taken off that line and lecavalier was put there they completely fell off the face of the earth. Lecavalier is absolutely murdering our teams possession stats. He brings down every single player on the ice. He needs fourth line minutes (unless we can bench him altogether?) and that is all there is to it.
- FlyersSteve118

Yup. And Hartnell's production seems to have dropped off as well since he got bumped back up to the top line.

Yup. And Hartnell's production seems to have dropped off as well since he got bumped back up to the top line.
- wolfhounds

I think that Hartnell has trouble keeping up with G and voracek. And I think he fits in with schenn and simmonds, both guys who can move forward quickly but lack lateral speed. Hartnell fits in very well on that line.

So that would mean Raffl back on the top unit? I am not comfortable with that really. The top line is playing a lot better with Hartnell in the mix even though he in not really cashing in on the points. Raffl is more of a guy that can be plugged in wherever he is needed.

On a side note. The second power play unit should be coots schenn read and lecav with streit at the top. I have no clue why Downie is out there. Really pisses me off.

I still don't quite understand the Lecavalier signing. Either the Flyers thought he could successfully play wing or that Schenn could play wing. Turns out neither are good there and they again have too many Center's that are forced to play out of position. Poor choices by management, not to mention that you have Laughton waiting in the wings as another Center.

This is why I think they look to package B. Schenn in a deal for a defenseman in the offseason.
- flyguy12

I thought it meant that one of Couturier or B Schenn wasn't going to be on the opening night roster… Obviously incorrect assumption.

Yup. And Hartnell's production seems to have dropped off as well since he got bumped back up to the top line.
- wolfhounds

Idk about that.. In Hartnells last 32 games he has 28 points.

9 goals, 19 assists, 28 points. +14!

Same time period stats for Wayne Simmonds

14 goals, 17 assists, 31 points +1

I do agree. This line is terribly slow and not great defensively. But what can you do? Do you put Hartnell on the 2nd line and Vinny on top? That doesnt help anything. Do you move Simmonds to top line and move Voracek down? Help a little on the 2nd line, but now the top like has Hartnell and Simmonds... Do you move Vinny or Simmonds down a line in favor of Raffl or Read? No, cause then you hurt that line's defense. Do you stick him on the 4th line with Downie and Hall? Not sure that is going to be much better either.

Only thing you can really do is keep putting them out there against favorable match-ups during offensive zone draws only.

Its not just Lecavalier... its the combination of the 3.
- SchennBros

I agree.

I think that Hartnell has trouble keeping up with G and voracek. And I think he fits in with schenn and simmonds, both guys who can move forward quickly but lack lateral speed. Hartnell fits in very well on that line.

So that would mean Raffl back on the top unit? I am not comfortable with that really. The top line is playing a lot better with Hartnell in the mix even though he in not really cashing in on the points. Raffl is more of a guy that can be plugged in wherever he is needed.

On a side note. The second power play unit should be coots schenn read and lecav with streit at the top. I have no clue why Downie is out there. Really pisses me off.
- FlyersSteve118

Akeson/McGinn Giroux Voracek
Hartnell Schenn Simmonds
Read Couturier Hall
Raffl Vinny Downie

Swap Hall and Raffl depending on situation.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Bitter Pill, Power Outage, Shero and More
- bmeltzer

0-6 hurt them, no doubt. so did the incorrect call on the ice for the disallowed goal. i'll never understand making one thing worth more than the other. they were robbed of the game tying goal, simple as that.

i'm surprised it's taken this long for a shero statue to have been made...maybe they wanted to wait until he was finally inducted into the HHOF.

good luck with the book. no doubt it will be a terrific read, entertaining, well written and worthy of shero's legacy.

a bit shocking that harntell's played 500 for the flyers. i never thought he'd last that long.

i agree that vinny needs to get demoted. he's providing not much of anything out there. very disappointing.

having to wait for saturday blows. the wings blow. the jackets are pissing me off and so is just about everything else. lupul. jagr. (frank). off.

I have a feeling the Flyers are going to go after a top defenseman in the offseason, involving getting rid of either Schenn or Couturier. That frees up a center posistion for Vinny, probably 2nd center, where he should be.
- Streit2ThePoint

They won't trade Couturier. He's the second most important forward on the team. He's the main penalty killer and gets all the toughest defensive assignments.

Idk about that.. In Hartnells last 32 games he has 28 points.

9 goals, 19 assists, 28 points. +14!

Same time period stats for Wayne Simmonds

14 goals, 17 assists, 31 points +1
- jak521

Could just be perception vs reality, or my selective memory.

And a lot of points, for both Simmonds and Hartnell, are coming on the PP. It's really a question of, was Hartnell better on the 2nd line than on the 1st?

They won't trade Couturier. He's the second most important forward on the team. He's the main penalty killer and gets all the toughest defensive assignments.
- Feanor

And I don't trade B Schenn to free up space for VL either. That just makes no sense to me.