I thought they would be trash actually. They were put together when Hartnell was in a pretty heavy slump no?

He seemed to re-discoverhis game a bit after that. They were damn fun to watch.
- flyer_nutter

Yeah this is when Simmonds was doing most of his ES damage and Hartnell was doing his PP dmg. Now everything is reversed.

Never would have thought that Hartnell would be our +/- leader on the team. He has been playing great as of late.

I saw it called the Legion of Dumb.
- Feanor

You've got to save that name for Rinaldo/Downie/Hartnell

Why would you put Couturier on the fourth line?
- FlyersSteve118

4th line is just a number. He would still have his top matchups and his icetime wouldnt be cut down any.

Priority should be winning games.

In his current state, Vinny isn't a top-9 player. Maybe his back/game improves and he gets back to that point, but right now, he's only hanging on to a top-9 spot due to past reputation and internal politics.
- Tomahawk

100 % correct.

I'm afraid with the upcoming schedule, the Flyers are going to walk into such a sad time at the station.
- PLindbergh31

The same was said about the stretch of games before the Olympic break.

How about this. Win 3. OTL 2. Is that sucessful?
- SchennBros

8 points in 9 games wouldn't be a disaster, but it would probably leave them with sound ground to make up in April.

4th line is just a number. He would still have his top matchups and his icetime wouldnt be cut down any.
- SchennBros

Hall and Rinaldo make it a fourth line. Top matchups? You want to give up 9goals a game with Hall and Rinaldo playing against teams top lines? Or are you just trying to get Couturier to demand a trade?

How about this. Win 3. OTL 2. Is that sucessful?
- SchennBros

Yeah, I think they'll definitely get a few stray points from OTL/SOL, but yeah... it's a really nasty stretch.

Yeah this is when Simmonds was doing most of his ES damage and Hartnell was doing his PP dmg. Now everything is reversed.

Never would have thought that Hartnell would be our +/- leader on the team. He has been playing great as of late.
- FlyersSteve118

And Hartnell was a player who had a turn in the "he can't play anymore and should be traded, bringing down the line" category. Earlier in the Season.

For all the line-change combinations, the bigger thing to me is the defensive play. The Flyers at the start of the year were a heavy D first team, that was struggling to score.

We are completely reversed now, with no real issues scoring, but big issues keeping the puck out of the net.

Mason picking up his game has a bit to do with it, but Berube seems to have lost a bit of control in regards to defensive structure and focus. For all his preaching about playing a good defensive game, they aren't doing it.

That along with discipline has fallen off a cliff.

Honestly, if it were up to me, I wouldn't even have VL in the lineup at all. Even trying to hide him on the 4th-line negates that line's ability to function as an limited energy unit... and as you said, trying to move Hall (or Rinaldo) up the lineup is problematic.
- Tomahawk

thats the problem he hurts them more right now then he helps them....4 straight years he's had injuries....and I believe 7 straight years as a minus player....he's not getting better ....he's getting worse.....and the reason Schenn plays center ahead of Vinny is simple...at this point in his career he's a better player then Vinny in the middle.

For all the line-change combinations, the bigger thing to me is the defensive play. The Flyers at the start of the year were a heavy D first team, that was struggling to score.

We are completely reversed now, with no real issues scoring, but big issues keeping the puck out of the net.

Mason picking up his game has a bit to do with it, but Berube seems to have lost a bit of control in regards to defensive structure and focus.
- flyer_nutter

The structure is still in place. Focus and execution has been waning.

And Hartnell was a player who had a turn in the "he can't play anymore and should be traded, bringing down the line" category. Earlier in the Season.
- MJL

Most smart fans know you need to take the bad with the good with Hartnell. He will help the team, but will leave you punching your sofa as well.

thats the problemmmmhe hurts them more right now then he helps them....4 straight years he's had injuries....and I believe 7 straight years as a minus player....he's not getting better ....he's getting worse.....and the reason Schenn plays center ahead of Vinny is simple...at this point in his career he's a better player then Vinny in the middle.
- landros 2

Lecavalier's numbers last year pro rated to an 82 game Season comes out to 21 goals and 67 points. He can still play. Injuries are a concern, for sure. But we don't need him to be the top line player he was in the past. I don't think B Schenn is a better Center right now then a healthy Lecavalier.

Lecavalier didn't suddenly become a 4th line player. The only thing keeping him from being a top 9 player is injuries, and playing out of position.
- MJL

If he's that hurt then he shouldn't play period......let him get healthy, because at this point he hurts more then he helps. He is hurting the team.

Most smart fans know you need to take the bad with the good with Hartnell. He will help the team, but will leave you punching your sofa as well.
- PhillySportsGuy

I would agree with that. That kind of player.

Hall and Rinaldo make it a fourth line. Top matchups? You want to give up 9goals a game with Hall and Rinaldo playing against teams top lines? Or are you just trying to get Couturier to demand a trade?
- FlyersSteve118

Hall is a defensive specialist. He would be more the adequite in a shutdown role. The question is if he could do it with the increased minutes he would be asked to play. And Rinaldo is also as sound defensively as Downie is when he has his head screwed on straight.

The structure is still in place. Focus and execution has been waning.
- MJL

Whatever it may be, their defensive game has dropped off big time. It has been for a while, along with Mason giving up some weak goals, but they have been able to outscore they way into winning.

Need to re-group with defensive coverage. The continuous trips to the penalty box could also stop. For such a heavily penalized team, the Flyers aren't that intimidating physically/on the boards. No excuse for that, and it goes back pre-Berube.

I think at this point the solution needs to be moving Schenn to wing and VLC back to center. I keep reading that Schenn is so much worse at wing but the numbers simply don't bear that out.

Hall is a defensive specialist. He would be more the adequite in a shutdown role. The question is if he could do it with the increased minutes he would be asked to play. And Rinaldo is also as sound defensively as Downie is when he has his head screwed on straight.
- SchennBros

He's a PK-specialist... not an ES defensive specialist. There's a big big difference.

Whatever it may be, their defensive game has dropped off big time. It has been for a while, along with Mason giving up some weak goals, but they have been able to outscore they way into winning.

Need to re-group with defensive coverage. The continuous trips to the penalty box could also stop. For such a heavily penalized team, the Flyers aren't that intimidating physically/on the boards. No excuse for that, and it goes back pre-Berube.
- flyer_nutter

Being realistic, I don't expect the discipline to improve drastically. Like, ever. They've got a few days to regroup, though, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to get it together defensively.

Lecavalier's numbers last year pro rated to an 82 game Season comes out to 21 goals and 67 points. He can still play. Injuries are a concern, for sure. But we don't need him to be the top line player he was in the past. I don't think B Schenn is a better Center right now then a healthy Lecavalier.
- MJL

In games played this year he is on pace for a 41 point season and a - 27 rating....as your second line player....we all know defensively he's below average....a minus player for the last seven years tells us thats not his strong point.
all I know is at this point he deserves to watch from the pressbox....whether he's hurt or not.

If he's that hurt then he shouldn't play period......let him get healthy, because at this point he hurts more then he helps. He is hurting the team.
- landros 2

There's a difference between being injured and not being able to play. Versus not being 100% and being able to play. And truthfully, I don't know how close to 100% he is. It may just be the position change that is affecting him now. And I agree that his current level of play is hurting the team.

He's a PK-specialist... not an ES defensive specialist. There's a big big difference.
- Tomahawk

People just want to find some way to include Vinny in the top 9, but he simply doesn't belong there.

In games played this year he is on pace for a 41 point season and a - 27 rating....as your second line player....we all know defensively he's below average....a minus player for the last seven years tells us thats not his strong point.
all I know is at this point he deserves to watch from the pressbox....whether he's hurt or not.
- landros 2

Injuries and the switch of positions has to be taken into account. And he's not the only forward that is not a good defensive forward on the team. The Flyers didn't sign him to be a defensive center. Or for his checking ability.