but i don't want to work today do i have to
- -davies-

Oh, fine. But if things go south, I'm calling Berube and telling him why.

Because +/- doesn't really indicate defensive play for individuals at all.

The Penguins are the top powerplay team in the NHL. Those goals don't count towards Crosby's +/- totals, and are a significant part of the goal differential.

At even strength, the Penguins goal differential is only +12. When you factor in short handed goals for and against, they are only +8.

As for the difference between Crosby and Kunitz & Maatta in +/-, Crosby plays more minutes on the PP than both, which affects his +/- negatively. It's not as simple as just looking at +/- totals.
- Jsaquella

you're probably right

Swinging into action!

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 3/15/14
- bmeltzer

yeoman

I don't think he was getting at that. I think he was just starting some convo..
- Giroux_Is_God

My response is offering insight to why using +/- and team goal differential is not really a good way to examine a player's defensive play.

you're probably right
- JAKEw1234

My response is offering insight to why using +/- and team goal differential is not really a good way to examine a player's defensive play.
- Jsaquella

Any word on Emery or Mason today? I need to pick my goalies!

My response is offering insight to why using +/- and team goal differential is not really a good way to examine a player's defensive play.
- Jsaquella

what stat would you use to examine a player's defensive play?

Any word on Emery or Mason today? I need to pick my goalies!
- MBFlyerfan

Mason's in

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN 5m
Mason vs Fleury again today

My response is offering insight to why using +/- and team goal differential is not really a good way to examine a player's defensive play.
- Jsaquella

And it came off as rather argumentative.

Let me phrase his original comment a different way.

Crosby's +/- is interesting. Do you think he's subpar away from the puck but doesn't really get scrutinized for it?

Mason's in

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN 5m
Mason vs Fleury again today
- JAKEw1234

Yayyyy

Mason's in

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN 5m
Mason vs Fleury again today
- JAKEw1234

That's who I would have gone with. Give Emery a couple more days off the IR, then throw him in against Chicago!

Yayyyy
- Giroux_Is_God

So the pens are missing Kunitz, Neal, Dupuis, Bennett, Letang, Martin. We need to be able to beat them again with a full roster. Hopefully Coots brings it against Crosby again today.

That's who I would have gone with. Give Emery a couple more days off the IR, then throw him in against Chicago!
- wolfhounds

That went great last time

you're probably right
- JAKEw1234

Not really trying to be right, just trying to look more deeply at it than picking one number.

The Pens have had a ton of injuries. They've been winning games and probably will have the division locked up soon. Crosby's been a huge part of that success. He's leading the NHL in scoring despite having a revolving door on his right wing and Kunitz(who would be a very good second line winger with any other center) on his left.

I just don't like +/- being tossed out as an end all, be all number of defensive play.

what stat would you use to examine a player's defensive play?
- JAKEw1234

Personally, I'd use my eyes. Rather cliche, but it seems like a lot of "away from the puck" stats are too or prone to misleading people. +/- leading the way in that category.

I'd be interested to hear what a few pens fans have to say about Crosby's d game. Probably similar to what we say about G- could be better, but the dude is the machine that drives the team. Can't get TOO mad at him unless there's an obvious lack of effort.

Swinging into action!
- Pixote Andolini

my friend's husband was one of the people who built that thing

/csb

what stat would you use to examine a player's defensive play?
- JAKEw1234

I'd use many. Corsi, Corsi For, Corsi QOC, Fenwick...there's a whole slew of them at www.extraskater.com

So the pens are missing Kunitz, Neal, Dupuis, Bennett, Letang, Martin. We need to be able to beat them again with a full roster. Hopefully Coots brings it against Crosby again today.
- JAKEw1234

They just keep winning. It's remarkable.

They just keep winning. It's remarkable.
- Giroux_Is_God

They're poopy heads

They're poopy heads
- JAKEw1234

x2

my friend's husband was one of the people who built that thing

/csb
- -davies-

What's it all about? Is that dirty sewage water they are narrowly missing? Cause if not, I'm not quite getting it. Just go swing when it's raining, but be sure to avoid the lightning.

my friend's husband was one of the people who built that thing

/csb
- -davies-

Very cool! What is csb?
I dug up the image on a tumblr excursion this morning.