Stellar blue skirts loss.

Stellar blue skirts loss.
- hammarby31

Only 4 of their remaining 13 games are against teams that are currently in a playoff position. Very easy schedule.

St. Louis hasn't done jack poop for the Rags in 7 games.

no

Also, with your little "best player" pool there.....well- there's this guy....his name is Jonathan Toews...
- Giroux_Is_God

i realize im the pens guy in a flyers board so im trying not to tear it down piece by piece. but just yeah.... no.

Yeah, I'm not placing Homer on the mountain with Holland or Lombardi or Chiarelli, but I do feel he's maligned unfairly by some. Sure he's made some head scratchers, but you do wonder how much pressure is coming from the Crypt Keeper.
- Jsaquella

I think homer has done a fairly nice job.

The only trade he really got fleeced on was the JVR/Schenn deal IMO.

On the flip side... the Carts/Richie deals were fantastic. Acquiring Mason for Leighton and a 3rd was solid. Those are probably his best work.

I like that FAs 'want' to come to Philly and the sales job Homer does there --- Matt Read, Shea Weber, Vinny Lecavalier, Mark Streit, Jaromir Jagr, to name a few. I actually like the VL and Streit signings even though VL has really struggled. I like that Homer's been more patient than me with developing the young guys (Schenn, Simmonds, Coots, Jake, etc). I like the aggressiveness to solve problems (Bryz trade, Weber OS, Parise/Suter FA) and the prompt redirect when things are not working well (i.e. Bryz CBO, Lavy Firing after 3 games). I like his recent contracts (Giroux, Simmonds, Jake, Coots, etc) and how they have been cap manageable. Give it a couple years and the Hartsy, VL, Streit contracts will all look quite nice.

His overall work is pretty good imo and I do think this team is headed in the right direction which is ultimately most important to me.

An interesting thing to me is the perception of GMs around the league. Its so easy for them to be a goat until their team goes to the SCF and then that same goat a season ago is all of a sudden a genious. Look no further than Dean Lombardi and Stan Bowman. Lombardi got lambasted for not trading quick so bernier could get the nod. quick goes on to win them the SC. Lombardi is a genious for being patient. Bowman after winning a SC w/ Tallon's team in 2010 then dismantled it with bad trades, made very few moves the following couple seasons while hording all his prospects, and then after two embarrassing playoff outs and a fan base wanting his head on a spike - goes on to win another SC last year. now hes the GM everyone wants running their team. If homer and the flyers made a deep run this season I guarantee everyone will be saying homer is the best thing since sliced bread. Funny - but its true.

I think homer has done a fairly nice job.

The only trade he really got fleeced on was the JVR/Schenn deal IMO.

On the flip side... the Carts/Richie deals were fantastic. Acquiring Mason for Leighton and a 3rd was solid. Those are probably his best work.

I like that FAs 'want' to come to Philly and the sales job Homer does there --- Matt Read, Shea Weber, Vinny Lecavalier, Mark Streit, Jaromir Jagr, to name a few. I actually like the VL and Streit signings even though VL has really struggled. I like that Homer's been more patient than me with developing the young guys (Schenn, Simmonds, Coots, Jake, etc). I like the aggressiveness to solve problems (Bryz trade, Weber OS, Parise/Suter FA) and the prompt redirect when things are not working well (i.e. Bryz CBO, Lavy Firing after 3 games). I like his recent contracts (Giroux, Simmonds, Jake, Coots, etc) and how they have been cap manageable. Give it a couple years and the Hartsy, VL, Streit contracts will all look quite nice.

His overall work is pretty good imo and I do think this team is headed in the right direction which is ultimately most important to me.

An interesting thing to me is the perception of GMs around the league. Its so easy for them to be a goat until their team goes to the SCF and then that same goat a season ago is all of a sudden a genious. Look no further than Vince Lombardi and Stan Bowman. Lombardi got lambasted for not trading quick so bernier could get the nod. quick goes on to win them the SC. Lombardi is a genious for being patient. Bowman after winning a SC w/ Tallon's team in 2010 then dismantled it with bad trades, made very few moves the following couple seasons while hording all his prospects, and then after two embarrassing playoff outs and a fan base wanting his head on a spike - goes on to win another SC last year. now hes the GM everyone wants running their team. If homer and the flyers made a deep run this season I guarantee everyone will be saying homer is the best thing since sliced bread. Funny - but its true.
- moylander

I have my issues with Holmgren, but overall, I agree he's done a good job.

And it is funny how the little things can make a GM go from outhouse to penthouse.

I have my issues with Holmgren, but overall, I agree he's done a good job.

And it is funny how the little things can make a GM go from outhouse to penthouse.
- Jsaquella

my biggest issue with homer is his god awful ability to identify solid players when shopping the bargain bin. Guys like Shelley, Gervais, Lilja, Kubina, Knuble, Leighton, Boucher, Rosehill, Gill have all been poor acquisitions. But to keep it in perspective - they don't kill the cap and they are 4th line and bottom pairing guys so its not THAT big of a deal... just super annoying.

I think homer has done a fairly nice job.

The only trade he really got fleeced on was the JVR/Schenn deal IMO.

.
- moylander

ok, i've been thinking about this since l. schenn looked pretty decent the last couple games. since defensemen are more of a commodity than forwards, if schenn plays into his 30's w/ this team and continues to improve i don't think this trade is the laugher it appeared to be early on. of course it depends on what they each do in their careers but i think we've seen more older d-men be productive for longer than older forwards tend to be (jagr, selanne, st. louis notwithstanding)

my biggest issue with homer is his god awful ability to identify solid players when shopping the bargain bin. Guys like Shelley, Gervais, Lilja, Kubina, Knuble, Leighton, Boucher, Rosehill, Gill have all been poor acquisitions. But to keep it in perspective - they don't kill the cap and they are 4th line and bottom pairing guys so its not THAT big of a deal... just super annoying.
- moylander

I'd be a lot happier with guys like Hainsey getting $2mm or Gilbert getting $900K than Meszaros getting $4mm or Gill getting $750K

ok, i've been thinking about this since l schenn looked pretty decent the last couple games. since defensemen are more of a commodity than forwards, if schenn plays into his 30's w/ this team and continues to improve i don't think this trade is the laugher it appeared to be early on. of course it depends on what they each do in their careers but i think we've seen more older d-men be productive for longer than older forwards tend to be (jagr, selanne, st. louis notwithstanding)
- hogweed

What JvR-Schenn boils down to for me is what each guy's ceiling is. I think JvR could easily be a 30 goal a year, first line winger. Schenn could be a very solid, second pair defensive guy, who is capable of simple puck play.

I'll take Crosby, and it's not even close.



Generally, the teams with the best systems win in the playoffs, and strength on the blue line helps. If anything, the strength of a team like Boston or St. Louis will beat them due to defense, not because they have two highly paid ultra-stars.



Agreed. They can't handle Boston, but if they make the dance, and someone takes out Boston, they could make a run to the SCF.
- jmatchett383

Crosby is a regular season player. He's totally ineffective when it comes to the grind it out type, physical games. Their faceoff percentage might be identical, but Giroux wins big faceoffs in timely situations. You can take Crosby because he scores more points, but Giroux has led the league in scoring since December, so that argument isn't really as strong as you think. Crosby doesn't play well in the neutral zone or defensive zone. Giroux dominates in all three zones. If you think Crosby is better because he has more points, then you should reconsider and take more things into consideration besides total points.

I am as big a Giroux fan as there is but until he wins a scoring title, MVP or a Cup he is not at the same level as Crosby.

Crosby is a regular season player. He's totally ineffective when it comes to the grind it out type, physical games.
- TonyBazz

Are you serious?
Crosby has 105 points in 85 playoff games and is a +15.
Please tell me again how he is a regular season player.

Crosby is a regular season player. He's totally ineffective when it comes to the grind it out type, physical games. Their faceoff percentage might be identical, but Giroux wins big faceoffs in timely situations. You can take Crosby because he scores more points, but Giroux has led the league in scoring since December, so that argument isn't really as strong as you think. Crosby doesn't play well in the neutral zone or defensive zone. Giroux dominates in all three zones. If you think Crosby is better because he has more points, then you should reconsider and take more things into consideration besides total points.
- TonyBazz

at no point in that entire paragraph did you come close to anything resembling a rational claim. at best its an extremely circular argument based off nothing more than mere opinion. one of your main propping points for giroux being the top dog is the fact that he has scored the most points since december, but then your conclusion is that points shouldnt really be the considering variable. you are undercutting your own argument before i even have a chance to.

at no point in that entire paragraph did you come close to anything resembling a rational claim.
- stayinthefnnet

Don't even bother responding.
You only need to look at Crosby's stats in the playoffs to realize how ridiculous that whole post was.

Don't even bother responding.
You only need to look at Crosby's stats in the playoffs to realize how ridiculous that whole post was.
- opeth_pa

these are the kinds of arguments i face all the time. its very tedious.

at no point in that entire paragraph did you come close to anything resembling a rational claim. at best its an extremely circular argument based off nothing more than mere opinion. one of your main propping points for giroux being the top dog is the fact that he has scored the most points since december, but then your conclusion is that points shouldnt really be the considering variable. you are undercutting your own argument before i even have a chance to.
- stayinthefnnet

No no no. I just sat there and explained that if your only argument is that Crosby has more points than Giroux, then you should look at Giroux's numbers since December 11. I think Giroux is better because his numbers are close to Crosby's and Giroux's all around game is astronomically better than Crosby's. That's what seperates the two.

at no point in that entire paragraph did you come close to anything resembling a rational claim. at best its an extremely circular argument based off nothing more than mere opinion. one of your main propping points for giroux being the top dog is the fact that he has scored the most points since december, but then your conclusion is that points shouldnt really be the considering variable. you are undercutting your own argument before i even have a chance to.
- stayinthefnnet

although i don't agree w/ op's conclusion, your assessment is really off.
rational claim: giroux has scored more points since december
op doesn't claim points are the reason giroux should be #1 but merely offers the fact that G has more points in case one were inclined to pick sid solely on points.
op then goes on to offer all the things he believes G does better, and the reiterates that one should consider more than points when considering who is better.
well constructed argument, although i disagree w/ the inference drawn from the premises

these are the kinds of arguments i face all the time. its very tedious.
- stayinthefnnet

I can't stand crosby but I can admit he is the best player in the league.

Crosby is a regular season player. He's totally ineffective when it comes to the grind it out type, physical games. Their faceoff percentage might be identical, but Giroux wins big faceoffs in timely situations. You can take Crosby because he scores more points, but Giroux has led the league in scoring since December, so that argument isn't really as strong as you think. Crosby doesn't play well in the neutral zone or defensive zone. Giroux dominates in all three zones. If you think Crosby is better because he has more points, then you should reconsider and take more things into consideration besides total points.
- TonyBazz

Dude. What?

Since when does Giroux dominate in all 3 zones? I think it's accepted that his defensive game isn't exactly a prowess.

The faceoff claim is hilarious.

Crosby is the best player in the league. He's in a league of his own and there should be no denying that. Not many guys can make Dupuis and Kunitz 30 goal scorers. Not Malkin, not Giroux, not St. Louis, not Joe Thornton....nobody.

Crosby is the best player in the world, and he will continue to be the best player in the world for years. I am willing to bet there will not be a better player than him to play the game within the next 20 years- closest we might have is McDavid.

Crosby is a regular season player. He's totally ineffective when it comes to the grind it out type, physical games. Their faceoff percentage might be identical, but Giroux wins big faceoffs in timely situations. You can take Crosby because he scores more points, but Giroux has led the league in scoring since December, so that argument isn't really as strong as you think. Crosby doesn't play well in the neutral zone or defensive zone. Giroux dominates in all three zones. If you think Crosby is better because he has more points, then you should reconsider and take more things into consideration besides total points.
- TonyBazz

Crosby averages 1.2 PPG in the playoffs, which is slightly higher than Giroux's playoff PPG average of 1.1.

So that's a wash.

Crosby's won a lot of big faceoffs, and saying that Giroux dominates in all three zones and Crosby doesn't play well in two of them is being absolutely blinded by orange glasses.

Claude Giroux is a helluva player, but Crosby is a better one.

Are you serious?
Crosby has 105 points in 85 playoff games and is a +15.
Please tell me again how he is a regular season player.
- opeth_pa

How many of those points came in the Boston series last year? When hes getting pushed around, he backs down easily. He does play well in the playoffs. But not when he's being forced to adjust his game. Crosby only plays one way.

No no no. I just sat there and explained that if your only argument is that Crosby has more points than Giroux, then you should look at Giroux's numbers since December 11. I think Giroux is better because his numbers are close to Crosby's and Giroux's all around game is astronomically better than Crosby's. That's what seperates the two.
- TonyBazz

What about the fact that Crosby's career point per game total is 1.4, where G is at 0.9?

Or does that not separate them enough

Crosby averages 1.2 PPG in the playoffs, which is slightly higher than Giroux's playoff PPG average of 1.1.

So that's a wash.

Crosby's won a lot of big faceoffs, and saying that Giroux dominates in all three zones and Crosby doesn't play well in two of them is being absolutely blinded by orange glasses.

Claude Giroux is a helluva player, but Crosby is a better one.
- Jsaquella

This and this only

Few things I learned this weekend:
1. If you were building a cup contending team and you had first pick, would you take Crosby? The answer to that question is absolutely not. That being said, you can't say Crosby is the the best player in the NHL. I'd take Giroux over Crosby any day. He does so much more than Crosby. He dominates on faceoffs. He dominates on the PP. He dominates on the PK. He dominates in all three zones. He is the hardest working player in the NHL. He's been the leading scorer in the NHL since December 11. You can make a case for about five guys when it comes to who's the best in the NHL. Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin and Giroux. To me, I'm taking Giroux all day. I think he's the best player in the NHL.
2. Pittsburgh won't win another cup with Crosby and Malkin. You can't have two 9 million dollar centers and no depth on the wings. The Penguins are built to win in the regular season; not the playoffs. If Pittsburgh has another early exit, they should fire Byslma and trade Malkin. Other than Kunitz and the often injured James Neal, who are their wings? Jokinen, Dupuis, Bennett, Glass, and some other scrubs? Now look at the Flyers ridiculously deep wingers. Voracek, Hartnell, Lecavalier, Simmonds, Read, Downie etc. The Flyers are built like a playoff team, which is why they're doing so well right now. All these games at the moment are playoff type games. The Penguins might win a round and beat up on Montreal, but when they meet a gritty team, they'll get plowed like last year when Boston swept them.
3. The East is wide open. I think the Flyers match up well against any team in the East besides Boston. If they can avoid Boston somehow, the Flyers will have a deep playoff run.
- TonyBazz

How many Guinesses tonight for you?

So I missed two (frank)ing good games in a row.

Caught the 1st today, and had to work after.