I'd prefer Green, too, because Niskanen has basically done it one time. Hard to justify such a large contract to a guy that's really had one year where he was handling a top pair role
- Jsaquella

Green's never been a regular denizen of the popcorn suite, either.

How dare you say OV doesn't play hard, who cares what reality shows with his -31 this year.
- opeth_pa

Somebody did a study earlier in the year about OV's +/-... traced it to abnormally low SH% of his linemates... that line wasn't letting in more goals than any other top line in the league... they just only had one guy potting goals, so they end up on the wrong side of plus minus.

- Jsaquella

he did look like some of the eagles recent lb's in that footage

How dare you say OV doesn't play hard, who cares what reality shows with his -31 this year.
- opeth_pa

To me, the -31 isn't a big deal.

Ovechkin can, when he's in the mood, be a physical force like few other players. It comes down to consistent effort. I think Crosby gives a much more consistent effort than Ovechkin.

I also know for a fact that Crosby works on his game more than Ovechkin does. When Crosby came into the league, people criticized his shooting. he worked on it and became a 50 goal scorer. Then they ripped his faceoff ability, so he worked on that and became a very good face off man.

- Jsaquella

Yea I've seen him do that a few times. They were losing 5-1 in that game at that point too. He did something similar against the Flyers a few weeks ago. He's not exactly Selke worthy, but he's one of the best players in the NHL. He's one of the most physical forwards and the best goal scorer in the NHL. I'd take him over Crosby. That's me though. I'd take Giroux and Ovechkin over Crosby. Go ahead and crucify me, but you can't say Crosby is the best and it's not debatable. It's highly debatable and you can make a solid case for Ovechkin and Giroux as the best player right now. Nice video though. Wish I had some video of your favorite player Crosby against Boston last playoffs, or yesterday's game or today's. There's plenty of videos of Sidney crying, whining, diving and being a weasel. There's endless footage.

Somebody did a study earlier in the year about OV's +/-... traced it to abnormally low SH% of his linemates... that line wasn't letting in more goals than any other top line in the league... they just only had one guy potting goals, so they end up on the wrong side of plus minus.
- Tomahawk

This is interesting.

On a related note, here's an example of when I DO pay attention to +/-. I've said plenty of times to take that stat with a grain of salt...but -31 is pretty- how should I say this- hard to take with a grain of salt, if ya know what I'm getting at

on another note.....2nd place w/ 2 games in hand on the rags. see you fellers later, i got to hit the rack

To me, the -31 isn't a big deal.
- Jsaquella

-31 to me is a big deal when someone is trying to argue that OV tries harder or is a better player than Crosby.

if you throw out opinions all you have are facts and the facts are that OV is a -31 and Crosby has 20 more points while being a +7.

Yea I've seen him do that a few times. They were losing 5-1 in that game at that point too. He did something similar against the Flyers a few weeks ago. He's not exactly Selke worthy, but he's one of the best players in the NHL. He's one of the most physical forwards and the best goal scorer in the NHL. I'd take him over Crosby. That's me though. I'd take Giroux and Ovechkin over Crosby. Go ahead and crucify me, but you can't say Crosby is the best and it's not debatable. It's highly debatable and you can make a solid case for Ovechkin and Giroux as the best player right now. Nice video though. Wish I had some video of your favorite player Crosby against Boston last playoffs, or yesterday's game or today's. There's plenty of videos of Sidney crying, whining, diving and being a weasel. There's endless footage.
- TonyBazz

I'd prefer Green, too, because Niskanen has basically done it one time. Hard to justify such a large contract to a guy that's really had one year where he was handling a top pair role
- Jsaquella

Agreed

At even money, I'm taking Mike Green, mainly because he's an elite point-producer/PP QB in addition to being a fantastic puck-mover.

I don't think Niskanen's production from year-to-year will be anywhere close to Greens moving forward.

I think both guys get lambasted for their D, but I really don't think it's deserved, especially in Green's case. He's actually not terrible... better than John Carlson.
- Tomahawk

This

Yea I've seen him do that a few times. They were losing 5-1 in that game at that point too. He did something similar against the Flyers a few weeks ago. He's not exactly Selke worthy, but he's one of the best players in the NHL. He's one of the most physical forwards and the best goal scorer in the NHL. I'd take him over Crosby. That's me though. I'd take Giroux and Ovechkin over Crosby. Go ahead and crucify me, but you can't say Crosby is the best and it's not debatable. It's highly debatable and you can make a solid case for Ovechkin and Giroux as the best player right now. Nice video though. Wish I had some video of your favorite player Crosby against Boston last playoffs, or yesterday's game or today's. There's plenty of videos of Sidney crying, whining, diving and being a weasel. There's endless footage.
- TonyBazz

It'd be debateable, if you'd provide more than an opinion. That's all you have given so far, then you come out with "How dare you say that Crosby works harder than Ovechkin"

You seem to have an irrational hatred of Crosby that blinds you to how good he is...and by the way, he's not my favorite player. That'd be Claude Giroux.

And if there is "endless" video, go find some, rather than wishing you had it.

Wish I had some video of your favorite player
- TonyBazz

My favorite player right now is Giroux..I just know he isn't the equal of Crosby over his career to this point and that I would take a few players before Giroux.

It'd be debateable, if you'd provide more than an opinion. That's all you have given so far, then you come out with "How dare you say that Crosby works harder than Ovechkin"

You seem to have an irrational hatred of Crosby that blinds you to how good he is...and by the way, he's not my favorite player. That'd be Claude Giroux.

And if there is "endless" video, go find some, rather than wishing you had it.
- Jsaquella

I did offer more than just my opinion. Go back and look at the part where I explained why I'd rather have Giroux. That's the second time you said I didn't explain anything. One guy even said to you "he did just explain it to you". Go back and re read. I can copy and paste for you if necessary...

although i don't agree w/ op's conclusion, your assessment is really off.
rational claim: giroux has scored more points since december
op doesn't claim points are the reason giroux should be #1 but merely offers the fact that G has more points in case one were inclined to pick sid solely on points.
op then goes on to offer all the things he believes G does better, and the reiterates that one should consider more than points when considering who is better.
well constructed argument, although i disagree w/ the inference drawn from the premises
- hogweed

Pay attention JSQUELLA. Stop trying to argue just to argue. It's so childish and annoying.

I did offer more than just my opinion. Go back and look at the part where I explained why I'd rather have Giroux. That's the second time you said I didn't explain anything. One guy even said to you "he did just explain it to you". Go back and re read. I can copy and paste for you if necessary...
- TonyBazz

Where you explained why you'd rather have Giroux, you used nothing more than opinion.

It's your opinion that Giroux is "dominant in all three zones" when, in fact he isn't. it's your opinion that Crosby shies away from physical play, when it's not really the case at all.

You've offered no statistical argument, no visual argument and nothing more than your opinion.

Pay attention JSQUELLA. Stop trying to argue just to argue. It's so childish and annoying.
- TonyBazz

That post wasn't in reply to my post. Are you telling me I should pay attention, when you can't even re-post a post directed at me in the first place?

This was the post directed at my post:

technically his argument is valid, it's just that the conclusion he draws from his premises is not substantiated
- hogweed

To which I replied:

Point taken.

Hey, I get his thought process. I love Giroux, too. When he was slumping I was here daily defending him and his deal, and expecting him to rebound.

He's an elite level player and he's capable of being even better than he has been over the last four years or so. I just don't see me taking him before Crosby or Toews.
- Jsaquella

Because we need something to make us all feel better....

Because we need something to make us all feel better....


- Giroux_Is_God

This works better for that

This works better for that


- Jsaquella

But then we'll just continue the "who's better Crosby or Giroux" thing that is destroying our lives....

Me and my friend are trying to cover The Lion Sleeps Tonight. We just need 2 more people who can sing the bass part and my friend will sing the opera background like on The Tokens' recording.

It's gonna be (frank)in awesome (I hope)

Because we need something to make us all feel better....


- Giroux_Is_God

I was about to squeeze one out and then I saw this and realized I should do something with my life

This works better for that


- Jsaquella

doop

I was about to squeeze one out and then I saw this and realized I should do something with my life
- shifty28

AREN'T THEY AMAZING THOUGH like really

boooooooooooooo!
- Potash4prez

you broke the page my man