If you asked me to build a team from scratch, and I had the option to take either Karlsson at age 23 and with 17 goals, or Keith at age 30 with his 50 assists, I take Karlsson everyday of the week. If the Sens ever get better as a team, within the next 10 years, you'll see Karlsson be a +35 easily.
- Rocktane

What about Keith at 23 or Karlsson at 23?

I'll take Keith's 53 points (dude has 50 assists!) and all-around game (shot blocking, physical, leadership) and plus-23 rating (granted, Chicago) over Karlsson's 8 more points and relatively one-dimensional game (relative to Keith) and minus-15 rating (granted, Ottawa).
- jmatchett383

Did you see Karlsson in the Olympics? He was amazing.

Remember, Keith is 7-years older, too. I think Karlsson's already near as good defensively as Keith was at 23. What he's able to accomplish on such a talent-less team is nothing short of remarkable.

+4 first round picks. He's restricted.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yup, forgot about that. Deal just took a turn for the worse...

Abandon ship!

Kimmo on 1-year deal @ $6M > Niskanen on 7-year deal @ $6M/per.
- Tomahawk

Niskanen at 5 x $5m and Kimmo at $4m signed after the season has started.

Best of both worlds.

If you asked me to build a team from scratch, and I had the option to take either Karlsson at age 23 and with 17 goals, or Keith at age 30 with his 50 assists, I take Karlsson everyday of the week. If the Sens ever get better as a team, within the next 10 years, you'll see Karlsson be a +35 easily.
- Rocktane

Are you saying that because you think he's the best all-around defender now, or because you think he will have a longer span over which he can become that player? Because, if we're just looking at this particular season, age shouldn't be a factor.

And if you asked me, I'll take Pietrangelo at 24 over both of them.

No, but I have watched his last few playoff years regularly (NYR, Mon, Pit) and came to that conclusion.
- jmatchett383

Players grow year over year, he is still only 23. A 20-year old Karlsson in the playoffs versus NYR is much different from a 23-year old Karlsson this year. Just my opinion, but I see a difference in the way he plays this season. Too bad he's on a horrible team.

What about Keith at 23 or Karlsson at 23?
- PhillySportsGuy

Or Shea Weber at 23??? Or Chris Pronger at 23?

Our fourth line does not provide defense. Rinaldo is a -13 and hall is a -14. Raffl is the only thing that keeps that line from being a sieve. Hall is so damn useless, and Rinaldo is pathetic once he misses his check. Our fourth line is just pathetic. If we had lappy and betts I could see your argument, but our fourth line is just a bunch of nobodies that we pray don't lose us the game.
- FlyersSteve118

My point was that Lecavalier and Akeson on the 4th line are going to provide defense? Nor would they get the icetime to generate a ton of points.

Players grow year over year, he is still only 23. A 20-year old Karlsson in the playoffs versus NYR is much different from a 23-year old Karlsson this year. Just my opinion, but I see a difference in the way he plays this season. Too bad he's on a horrible team.
- Rocktane

Well I'll make sure that I watch every game of every team next year so my player-by-player assessment is correct up to the day for every NHL player. My apologies for basing opinions of past experience.

Or Shea Weber at 23??? Or Chris Pronger at 23?
- jmatchett383

Luke Schenn at 23!

Or Shea Weber at 23??? Or Chris Pronger at 23?
- jmatchett383

Or Zdeno Chara at 23?!!

....wait..

Keith at 23 was in 2006-07. 82 games played, 2 goals 29 assists, +- was 0.

I take Karlsson at 23, still.

Luke Schenn at 23!
- wolfhounds

Remember Joni Pitkanen at 23? Dude was crazy.

Or Zdeno Chara at 23?!!

....wait..
- Giroux_Is_God

Rundblad at 23

Remember Joni Pitkanen at 23? Dude was crazy.
- Tomahawk

He was. Pitkanen looked like he was going to be soooo good.

Well I'll make sure that I watch every game of every team next year so my player-by-player assessment is correct up to the day for every NHL player. My apologies for basing opinions of past experience.
- jmatchett383

Salty.

He was. Pitkanen looked like he was going to be soooo good.
- PhillySportsGuy

He looked like Karlsson, lol.

Keith at 23 was in 2006-07. 82 games played, 2 goals 29 assists, +- was 0.

I take Karlsson at 23, still.
- Rocktane

I mean 23 and on. Not just like one season when they were 23.

Are you saying that because you think he's the best all-around defender now, or because you think he will have a longer span over which he can become that player? Because, if we're just looking at this particular season, age shouldn't be a factor.

And if you asked me, I'll take Pietrangelo at 24 over both of them.
- jmatchett383

I'm picking Karlsson because he is 7 years younger, is better offensively, and his defensive game is getting much better. Remember, if I'm building a team from scratch, and not putting him on a crap Sens team. Hell, put Karlsson on a somewhat decent team, like say Philly, and he is not -15.

I have a soft spot for AP and Weber, I take them because I am biased and really wanted them on our team. Shattered dreams

Salty.
- wolfhounds

I mean 23 and on. Not just like one season when they were 23.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd take Karlsson's entire projected career up to 30, over Keith's body of work, easy.

Remember Joni Pitkanen at 23? Dude was crazy.
- Tomahawk

Gimme Kim Johnsson and coast to coast rushes that end in goals any day of the week!

Well I'll make sure that I watch every game of every team next year so my player-by-player assessment is correct up to the day for every NHL player. My apologies for basing opinions of past experience.
- jmatchett383

Apology accepted

He looked like Karlsson, lol.
- Tomahawk

13 goals, 46 points, +22.

Even during the year which will not be discussed he put up good offensive numbers on an atrocious offensive team.

I'd take Karlsson's entire projected career up to 30, over Keith's body of work, easy.
- Tomahawk

Its a tough choice.