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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 3/18/14 vs. Chicago
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jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Mar 18 @ 12:10 PM ET
13 goals, 46 points, +22.

Even during the year which will not be discussed he put up good offensive numbers on an atrocious offensive team.

- PhillySportsGuy

And to boot.. he did that in 58 games.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:10 PM ET
Gimme Kim Johnsson and coast to coast rushes that end in goals any day of the week!
- wolfhounds


... but was he 23 when he was doing that?
Rocktane
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 03.08.2011

Mar 18 @ 12:11 PM ET
I'd take Karlsson's entire projected career up to 30, over Keith's body of work, easy.
- Tomahawk


Agreed.

So, now that we've exhausted the debate on elite defensemen, how about that Streit guy... ugh.
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:12 PM ET
I'm picking Karlsson because he is 7 years younger, is better offensively, and his defensive game is getting much better. Remember, if I'm building a team from scratch, and not putting him on a crap Sens team. Hell, put Karlsson on a somewhat decent team, like say Philly, and he is not -15.

I have a soft spot for AP and Weber, I take them because I am biased and really wanted them on our team. Shattered dreams

- Rocktane


That's insulting. You should apologize.

Can we just take Karlsson and Keith to make everyone happy?
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:12 PM ET
Agreed.

So, now that we've exhausted the debate on elite defensemen, how about that Streit guy... ugh.

- Rocktane



Glad to know we've got Mez's replacement all sewn up.

Now we need Niskanen @$6M+ to replace Carle.
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:13 PM ET
Agreed.

So, now that we've exhausted the debate on elite defensemen, how about that Streit guy... ugh.

- Rocktane


He entered the NHL at 29. We can't use his season at 23.
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:14 PM ET
... but was he 23 when he was doing that?
- Tomahawk


Ummmm... You weren't supposed to think about it, you were just supposed to bask in the glory of the puck dangle and the wonderful music of the goal horn.
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:14 PM ET
Glad to know we've got Mez's replacement all sewn up.

Now we need Niskanen @$6M+ to replace Carle.

- Tomahawk


I think we have enough scapegoats. Streit, Grossmann, Luke Schenn. Even Coburn takes some of the unnecessary blame.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 18 @ 12:14 PM ET
And all because they didn't save enough tagging room to re-up Carle when his value was $4-5M.
- Tomahawk



There is no factual information to substantiate what Carle's value was, or what he was asking for from the Flyers before he left for Free Agency. What we do know as fact is what Carle signed for in TB.
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:15 PM ET
There is no factual information to substantiate what Carle's value was, or what he was asking for from the Flyers before he left for Free Agency. What we do know as fact is what Carle signed for in TB.
- MJL




Lurking
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:16 PM ET


Lurking

- PhillySportsGuy


Carle conversation detector buzzed...
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 18 @ 12:16 PM ET
I don't necessarily agree with the notion that it should go to the best two-way dman... if a guy like Karlsson can score at a high enough pace (and help his teammates to score at a higher pace) it should really balance out any trade-offs at the other end of the ice... you know, the old adage of the best defense is making the other team play 200' from your goal.

Byfuglien and Yandle in particular are going to get shafted in the votes -- same as they got shafted in the Olympic selection process -- because they don't conform to some antiquated Canadian/American hockey ideal.

- Tomahawk



Byfuglien adn Yandle aren't going to get shafted. They aren't going to be finalists, simply because neither is a Noris Trophy level defenseman.
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Mar 18 @ 12:16 PM ET
Agreed.

So, now that we've exhausted the debate on elite defensemen, how about that Streit guy... ugh.

- Rocktane


It's cute that you guys are still pretending Streit has had a bad season. Considering he's been stuck with Grossmann most of the time he's done pretty well. If he could play with a mobile guy with some puck skills like MacDonald he'd do even better.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:16 PM ET
Carle conversation detector buzzed...
- wolfhounds


PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:18 PM ET
Carle conversation detector buzzed...
- wolfhounds


It was inevitable once he posted about the tagging space issue.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 18 @ 12:18 PM ET
The 9 game tryout is only applicable for the beginning of the year, and it can be done multiple years in the player's junior career (see Mark Schieffle). However, I believe that he can have a tryout with the team at the end of his junior season a la Ryan Parent is 06/07. But there's no limit of games he can play after his season is over (much like Chris Kreider did in 11-12).
- jmatchett383



I believe if he plays 10 games in the NHL, his Entry level deal kicks in.
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:19 PM ET
It's cute that you guys are still pretending Streit has had a bad season. Considering he's been stuck with Grossmann most of the time he's done pretty well. If he could play with a mobile guy with some puck skills like MacDonald he'd do even better.
- Feanor


I think they've been stuck with each other. Both seem to play better with other partners but Berube is afraid to break up Timonen-Coburn.
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:20 PM ET
It's cute that you guys are still pretending Streit has had a bad season. Considering he's been stuck with Grossmann most of the time he's done pretty well. If he could play with a mobile guy with some puck skills like MacDonald he'd do even better.
- Feanor

+1

He's grown on me, to my surprise.
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:22 PM ET
+1

He's grown on me, to my surprise.

- BulliesPhan87


I wouldn't say he's had a great year. He's been adequate. I just hate the Grossmann-Streit pairing. They don't play well together.
FlyersSteve118
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Delco, PA
Joined: 10.02.2013

Mar 18 @ 12:22 PM ET
I think they've been stuck with each other. Both seem to play better with other partners but Berube is afraid to break up Timonen-Coburn.
- PhillySportsGuy


Thats the only reliable pairing we have. There is no way in hell he should ever break them up. Although Grossman - Coburn was pretty solid last year. Although that leave Kimo - Streit. That kinda scares me a bit. Can't break up MacD and Schenn now that they are playing pretty solid together.
SchennBros
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Gettysburg, PA
Joined: 08.06.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:24 PM ET
The Flyers are finally wising up and drafting young defenders who can hopefully be top-4 players built from within. So the best option:

As soon as they don't look completely out of place, immediately put them into 82 NHL games a season, regardless of the level of competition they've played against before.
But unless he's absolutely dominating, it's best for him to go back to juniors. I wouldn't even say he's "dominating" in juniors like Laughton is, or like Ghost is in the NCAA. He's progressing fairly well. He's not putting up numbers like some other picks (Nurse/Pulock/that other WHL defender...can't think of the name). Let's give him his full 3 years. Please for the love of God don't rush him just because we can.

- jmatchett383


For a normal defenseman I would say your right, give them more time to grow into thier body. But Morin is already grown into his body.

I take a look at Chara and Pronger. Not too many guys you can compair his size to. Chara spent 1 year in the WHL and was basically NHL bound after that... Just a few games in AHL before the rule change.

Pronger spent 2 years in the OHL before making the jump, but 1 was predraft.

Its just my opinion, but the reason defenseman take so long to develop is first they have to grow into thier bodies. Because once you grow into your body, your skating, positioning... everything changes... and you have to relearn it. And then, they have to relearn it again because everything changes again adjusting from the Junior level to the Pro level.

That is why you see offensive guys make the leap real quick, and then sometimes regress...like Fowler. Even Doughty had regression before coming back on strong.

And its the reason that I think Morin would do better in the NHL. He is already grown into his body. He might put on 10 more lbs, but that will likely happen this offseason anyway. He has a very RAW game, I will agree to that, but like Pronger and Chara he can work on it in the NHL, because his size will allow him too. And IMO just by pure size, he wont learn very much more in juniors. Its like asking a Highschool Senior to play on a Pee-Wee team and to improve his game..
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:27 PM ET
Thats the only reliable pairing we have. There is no way in hell he should ever break them up. Although Grossman - Coburn was pretty solid last year. Although that leave Kimo - Streit. That kinda scares me a bit. Can't break up MacD and Schenn now that they are playing pretty solid together.
- FlyersSteve118


Ultimately, I think they need to just keep the pairings because my solution would be to break all of them up. I would go:
Schenn-Timonen
Grossmann-Coburn
Streit-Mac

Those pairings have all played together. I just don't think its the smartest thing to be breaking up all three pairings during this stretch.
johndewar
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: South Jersey, NJ
Joined: 01.16.2009

Mar 18 @ 12:29 PM ET
Rundblad at 23
- PhillySportsGuy


I hope Erik Gustafsson is a good host tonight for Rundblad up in the Riley Cote suite.
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Mar 18 @ 12:30 PM ET
For a normal defenseman I would say your right, give them more time to grow into thier body. But Morin is already grown into his body.

I take a look at Chara and Pronger. Not too many guys you can compair his size to. Chara spent 1 year in the WHL and was basically NHL bound after that... Just a few games in AHL before the rule change.

Pronger spent 2 years in the OHL before making the jump, but 1 was predraft.

Its just my opinion, but the reason defenseman take so long to develop is first they have to grow into thier bodies. Because once you grow into your body, your skating, positioning... everything changes... and you have to relearn it. And then, they have to relearn it again because everything changes again adjusting from the Junior level to the Pro level.

That is why you see offensive guys make the leap real quick, and then sometimes regress...like Fowler. Even Doughty had regression before coming back on strong.

And its the reason that I think Morin would do better in the NHL. He is already grown into his body. He might put on 10 more lbs, but that will likely happen this offseason anyway. He has a very RAW game, I will agree to that, but like Pronger and Chara he can work on it in the NHL, because his size will allow him too. And IMO just by pure size, he wont learn very much more in juniors. Its like asking a Highschool Senior to play on a Pee-Wee team and to improve his game..

- SchennBros


I would argue that Morin still hasn't grown into his body. He still looks a little awkward. I just don't want to stunt his offensive potential. Give him a chance to run the top PP unit on his Junior team.

Look what happened with Luke Schenn. They brought him up too quickly and used as a defensive defenseman from the start. He was never given an opportunity to improve offensively.
FlyersSteve118
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Delco, PA
Joined: 10.02.2013

Mar 18 @ 12:30 PM ET
Ultimately, I think they need to just keep the pairings because my solution would be to break all of them up. I would go:
Schenn-Timonen
Grossmann-Coburn
Streit-Mac

Those pairings have all played together. I just don't think its the smartest thing to be breaking up all three pairings during this stretch.

- PhillySportsGuy


Schenn Timonen and Streit Mac both could be really good or really bad together. Might be worth the change if things start to go awry.
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