Adam Kirshenblatt: HHOF Making the Case: Chris Osgood

I'll probably be in the minority but I agree with all the points you lay out. He'll need a weak HoF year to get in if he ever does however.

I don't think he deserves a spot in the hall.

I lived in the Detroit area for most of his time with the Wings, and must say, I have never seen a goalie that has benefited from his team more than Osgood. Yes he had plenty of wins, cups etc. But nobody was arguing that the Wings goaltending was the reason.

That being said, I really like Osgood and liked watching him play.

If he is to enter the Hall of Fame, it should be by paying the $10 admission like everyone else.

I don't think he deserves a spot in the hall.

I lived in the Detroit area for most of his time with the Wings, and must say, I have never seen a goalie that has benefited from his team more than Osgood. Yes he had plenty of wins, cups etc. But nobody was arguing that the Wings goaltending was the reason.
- SolidGoldBricks

Saw Ozzie play his entire career....

Of course people are not saying THE reason the Wings were so dominant was because of Ozzie... but nobody can dispute his results or the fact that he WAS a key factor in the overall success of the Wings' past years.

His ability to bounce back quickly after a tough loss was what impressed me the most. I think he deserves consideration at least. I will say I don't think he's one of the very top, eilite goalies (i.e. Hasek, Roy, etc..) who should be a lock to get in.

Play long enough on a team stacked with HOFers and throw in some strong playoff runs, and you can be in the HHOF.

To me, he's Ron Hextall with a better team in front of him.

Chris Osgood is my favorite goalie of all time. He's the guy in my avatar, even. I straight up love the guy. That's why this post is going to be so incredibly long, which I apologize for in advance.

But ... ugh ... I would have to argue that he is not a hall of famer.

I wouldn't say he was a "passenger" either, because that's not fair to Osgood. In his 20s during his first run with the Red Wings through his first year on the Island he was a solidly above-average starter; despite only having one really great season (1995-96) he never had a statistical season worse than league average in his first 9 seasons, ranging from just about exactly middle of the pack to the upper middle.

The year he split between Long Island and St. Louis was definitely a tough one, but then over the next four seasons (1 with St. Louis, 3 with Detroit) his numbers once again never strayed too far from league average.

The last 3 years of Osgood's career probably never should have happened (either he or Detroit should have realized it was time to hang them up, but both were stubborn), and they really drag down Osgood's career averages. Tossing them out, though, you're left with a 14-year period of productivity as a legitimate NHL goaltender in which Osgood pitched a .907 save percentage and saved a total of about 30 extra goals compared to a league-average goaltender over 644 games. Those numbers are nothing to sneeze at (.907 would be considered below-average today but not for the full era Osgood played in), but they also are well below what I would consider a reasonable Hall of Fame standard.

To the "but he was a winner" crowd: Again, I think it's unfair to call Osgood a "passenger," but context matters and the reality is Detroit did not need elite goaltending to win -- and proved the point by winning without it.

Take, for example, the 2008 playoffs. I'm not saying Osgood wasn't great that spring (he was), but that playoff year the Red Wings scored 72 goals on 803 shots while only allowing 519 (!!!) shots against. That implies that the Red Wings would have only needed a save percentage of around .861 out of their goaltender in order to have a 50/50 chance of winning a game. Osgood, as it turned out, played very very well that spring anyway, which is why no one else had a chance. But the truth is that Detroit would probably have been the favorite to win the Cup regardless of who was in net. They might have had lower odds of winning, they might not have won as convincingly, but they still would have been favorites.

Again, Osgood was not a shlub. He was a good goalie who had a good career. It was also clear that he was mentally tough, able to put bad goals and bad games behind him quickly, and that he was extremely confident. Subjectively, I think that may have helped him play a lot longer and more consistently than perhaps another goaltender of his ability level would have. Most run-of-the-mill goaltenders who play more than a handful of years are statistically all over the map, with some seasons where they look like world beaters and others where they look like a tire fire. But Osgood's profile isn't like that. He's just ... average. Dependable. Solid. I find that impressive in its own way.

That, combined with the fact that he had the GM of the most stacked franchise in the NHL in his corner for his entire career, helped Osgood achieve the counting numbers and the championships and the team success that he achieved. And it's also true that not just anyone could have achieved that, which is where I think Osgood's harshest critics get it wrong. A goalie who was not as talented (say a Patrick Lalime or a Roman Turek) or who was not as confident or mentally tough might well not have survived and thrived in Detroit the way Osgood did.

But if you try to pick apart the team context he was in and look at just the man, the goalie, it starts to become clear that his individual performance doesn't measure up to Hall levels. He was not a great goalie. He was good enough to win a lot on the team he played for, which is worthy of praise but maybe not worthy of a spot in the Hall while other, more talented (but less fortunate) goalies sit forever outside.

If you only base his induction to the hall of fame on his abilities as a goaltender, I'd have to agree with a lot of people... he wasn't the most gifted or incredible athlete.

If you base his induction to the hall of fame on his stats, career and achievements... then he definitely belongs in there.

As mentioned, you don't make top 10 in most stats without skill and perseverance... and the Penguins & Flyers could tell you a thing or two about a stacked roster with a terrible goalie falling apart in the playoffs. Not everyone could've done what Osgood did behind that roster.

I wouldn't be angry if he made it in, he's had a great career and while, as you mentioned, he shouldn't be put on the same pedestal as Brodeur and Roy, he certainly belongs up there with the rest of them when you look at his career & achievements.

the HoF is about career achievements, Osgood has those in spades, but I still think it will take a weak year for him to have a chance of getting in.

usually you win a cup because of your goalie, the wings won it in spite of theirs! Osgood in the hall ? It will be a cold day in hell, God help us all if it does !!

This was an interesting article since it was about a player with less than zero chance of making it. To be honest, I think even considering Chris Osgood kind of devalues the Hall, let alone putting him in there. He's average, at best.

The HOF should be for the best of the best. The Wins argument borders on ridiculous. Baseball figured out years ago that wins for pitchers are a joke stat, and in hockey, since they eliminated ties this is doubly true, but it was already true before the shootout anyways. Wins are a team stat that a goalie has minimal control over.

Honestly, Osgood's biggest contribution is being the goalie who made teams say "Hey, if we have a good enough lineup, we don't need a star goalie. If we alot the $ used for a goalie on a star defenseman, we probably get better value." Enter the era of Corey Crawford, Anti Niemi, etc.

Honestly, I think you can make a better case for Kid Rock going into the Rock and Roll HOF.

Still, though I disagree, I really liked reading this.

Might as well induct Corey Crawford and Niemi too if we're inducting goalies who won cups on great teams. Osgood shouldn't even sniff the HHOF.

not many HOF goalies spent their careers looking over their shoulder because their team was constantly looking elsewhere for better options

no

Is he a Roy or a Hasek, no. He definitely deserves to be in there though. He's had a better career than a lot of guys who are already in.

And if a goalie shouldn't get in because he had great teams in front of him, why is Grant Fuhr in then?

I apologize for everything being bolded for awhile. I missed a "/" and I didn't notice until now

Yeah he can make it in, as long as they change the name to the Hockey Hall of Pretty Good

As much as I hate to admit it, I just don't see a way that you can make a good case for Osgood ever being a Hall-quality goaltender without resorting to stats (wins, shutouts, championships, even GAA) that rely more heavily on Osgood's teammates than on Osgood himself.

Statistical dominance? No. Osgood finished in the top 10 in save percentage (among qualifying goaltenders) only twice in his career as a starter, and never higher than 8th. Most years his save percentage was very close to league average. He finished in the top 10 in GAA a number of times, but that's largely because Nick Lidstrom and the Red Wings defense did a fabulous job limiting shots against.

Hardware? Osgood was a second-team all-star in 1996 and finished second in Vezina voting, both of which I would argue were undeserved. He was never a serious candidate for any other award, unless you count the Jennings (and I don't, because it is a team defense award that happens to be given to the goaltender).

Comparison vs. backups? Unlike guys like Hasek or Roy, who were uncontested starters virtually their entire careers and usually significantly outperformed their team's other goalies, Osgood spent a lot of his career as a 1A/1B, switching back and forth between starter and backup. He won a ton of games, but so did everybody playing goal in Detroit.

Here is Osgood's career regular season save percentage and points ("win") percentage, compared to his teammates. (That is, compared with the combination of all the other goalies on Osgood's teams during the time that they played together):

Osgood: .905 save percentage, .630 points percentage
Teammates: .906 save percentage, .640 points percentage

Which is to say, Osgood was statistically indistinguishable from his teammates, and his teams were just as successful with him on the bench as they were with him on the ice. This is exactly what we would expect from an average goalie who played for a very long time with a wide variety of players sharing his crease at different points in time.

Case dismissed. No (frank)ing way

I think if he got more of a shot at being the #1 in Detroit during the Hasek's return saga and the Legace debacle he would definitely be in there. Since then I have always said if Hasek wasn't in net during the '07 playoffs they would have beat Anaheim and taken the Cup. I gotta believe if he wasn't injured in '06 as well we could've taken the Oilers. Its pretty impressive that he achieved 400+ wins while constantly being taken out of the net by guys like Vernon, Hasek and Legace. Maybe even more impressive he always seemed to get the net back.

And his seasons with NYI and STL were good as well. He was only there for a short time but neither of those teams even made the playoffs the years preceeding and following Ozzy's seasons there.

The fact that he was never really a consistent started if what is holding him back from the Hall in my view. Maybe he wasn't the most skilled goalie, but he did know how to win. As someone else said, if Fuhr is in the HOF, Ozzy should have a chance. If the Wings would've went with Ozzy instead of allowing Hasek to return after his one year in 2002, hes a lock for the HOF. But the fact that the Wings kept wanting to go with someone else is what hurts him.

usually you win a cup because of your goalie, the wings won it in spite of theirs! Osgood in the hall ? It will be a cold day in hell, God help us all if it does !!
- meyrman

To be fair, they wouldn't have had a chance for the Cup if he didn't come in for Hasek in game 4 vs the Preds, and play lights out that playoff year.

Osgood was a good goaltender, and I like Osgood a lot, but the guy's no legend. He may get in during a weaker year though because there are already too many players in the HoF who shouldn't be there.