Scoring goals is the single hardest thing to do in hockey and he is arguably the best at it. With league-wide scoring trending down again, and more and more teams playing Bruins/Kings hockey, guys like OV and Stamkos who can still consistently pot goals in bunches are the rarest of the rare. There's literally hundreds of players who can play defense, or kill a penalty, or do all the little things... but literally only two guys in the league who can fill the net like clockwork.
- Tomahawk

I've been on record, and still am, as saying that it baffles me how guys who are elite defensively but can't score are valued but guys who can flat-out score but weaker defensively are vilified.

It truly baffles me. I understand people might question effort, but for the life of me, I don't get how guys who can score 50 times against NHL defensemen and goalies are viewed as liabilities -- they might not be the MVPs of the league, but holy hell, it's DAMN HARD to score in that league.

I would assume Ovechkin is better with women and cars, though.
- BulliesPhan87

And chugging vodka and taking weird photos...

In better news....

Me and Laughton are tied for goals in the NHL.
- Flyersgod

We should trade him for the guy who took Byfugliens spot on D. That guy must be unreal.

Yup
- PhillySportsGuy

Looking at the list of 700 goal scorers, it's not true. Ovechkin is better than Mike Gartner, and arguably Brett Hull.

Ha! I'm firm in my convictions!



- AllInForFlyers

I was once told of the importance of convictions here

We should trade him for the guy who took Byfugliens spot on D. That guy must be unreal.
- PhillySportsGuy

Or sign me to a one year 2mil contract. We will win the cup.

Overrated:
Parise
Kunitz
Karlsson

Underrated:
Vlasic
Bishop
Wheeler

I think the rarest are the players who produce points, but don't kill their team defensively.

A player doesn't get to -31 without being bad defensively. Use every advanced stat you want, but no amount of bad luck or bad line mates or bad match ups should result in "one of the best players in the game" being that bad of a +/- player.
- PhillySportsGuy

Part of it is him not being great on D, the other part is that his team is barely shooting 5-6% at ES when he's on the ice, despite him potting almost 50-goals himself. Hard to put up +'s when you're getting very little help.

And chugging vodka and taking weird photos...
- Flyersgod

So he's into photography? (a nudge is as good as a wink to a blind man, eh, eh?)

When he retires he will be the worst 700+ goal scorer in NHL history.
- PLindbergh31

Yes he will. Mike Bossy (not a 700-goal scorer) is considered by most as the best pure goal scorer ever, and he was an adequate 2-way player whose career was unfairly cut short. Brett Hull was never a Selke candidate, but he was a good enough player to be trusted to make sound defensive decisions.

I never got to watch Dionne or Esposito and saw very little of Gartner. But from what I've read, they were all players who were able to score in bunches while also buying into the team game. Ovechkin is a fantastic talent, but seems very uninterested in doing anything but scoring goals.

That said, I'd love to have him on the Flyers.

I've been on record, and still am, as saying that it baffles me how guys who are elite defensively but can't score are valued but guys who can flat-out score but weaker defensively are vilified.

It truly baffles me. I understand people might question effort, but for the life of me, I don't get how guys who can score 50 times against NHL defensemen and goalies are viewed as liabilities -- they might not be the MVPs of the league, but holy hell, it's DAMN HARD to score in that league.
- AllInForFlyers

Its more about overall helping your team. A guy like Crosby isn't some wizard defensively, but he outscores any defensive deficiencies. Ovechkin can't score enough to offset his defensive deficiencies.

So he's into photography? (a nudge is as good as a wink to a blind man, eh, eh?)
- BulliesPhan87

Does not compute.

I want to go home. The seat team needs to move!!!

How is swat not a word in this phones dictionary?

I think the rarest are the players who produce points, but don't kill their team defensively.

A player doesn't get to -31 without being bad defensively. Use every advanced stat you want, but no amount of bad luck or bad line mates or bad match ups should result in "one of the best players in the game" being that bad of a +/- player.
- PhillySportsGuy

Patrice Bergeron, 2006-07....-28
Alexander Edler, this season ....-29
Dale Hawerchuk 1988-89...-30
Borje Salming 1983-84...-34

I've been on record, and still am, as saying that it baffles me how guys who are elite defensively but can't score are valued but guys who can flat-out score but weaker defensively are vilified.

It truly baffles me. I understand people might question effort, but for the life of me, I don't get how guys who can score 50 times against NHL defensemen and goalies are viewed as liabilities -- they might not be the MVPs of the league, but holy hell, it's DAMN HARD to score in that league.
- AllInForFlyers

Give me Datsyuk and Bergeron, who will (if healthy) pot 30 goals and can stop one-trick ponies like Ovechkin over the guy who scores a lot of goals but can't stop a player well.

Part of it is him not being great on D, the other part is that his team is barely shooting 5-6% at ES when he's on the ice, despite him potting almost 50-goals himself. Hard to put up +'s when you're getting very little help.
- Tomahawk

He should be a specialist. He should not be getting big minutes. Let him get offensive zone face-offs and play the whole 2 minute PP. I certainly don't want him playing big minutes in a tie game.

Patrice Bergeron, 2006-07....-28
Alexander Edler, this season ....-29
Dale Hawerchuk 1988-89...-30
Borje Salming 1983-84...-34
- Jsaquella

Alex Ovechkin 2009-10... +45

Its more about overall helping your team. A guy like Crosby isn't some wizard defensively, but he outscores any defensive deficiencies. Ovechkin can't score enough to offset his defensive deficiencies.
- PhillySportsGuy

If Ovechkin got a + for just his own production on the power play, he would be a +3

He's -31, but he has 34 points that don't factor into his +/-

Yes he will. Mike Bossy (not a 700-goal scorer) is considered by most as the best pure goal scorer ever, and he was an adequate 2-way player whose career was unfairly cut short. Brett Hull was never a Selke candidate, but he was a good enough player to be trusted to make sound defensive decisions.

I never got to watch Dionne or Esposito and saw very little of Gartner. But from what I've read, they were all players who were able to score in bunches while also buying into the team game. Ovechkin is a fantastic talent, but seems very uninterested in doing anything but scoring goals.

That said, I'd love to have him on the Flyers.
- jmatchett383

Being the worst 700 goal scorer in a group of 9 guys in NHL history, is like being the ugliest super model.

I admit he's got some quirks to his game that I don't like. Defense responsibility, not busting it on every shift, that said, the hardest thing to do in the NHL is put the puck in the net. Over the last decade no one has done it better than Ovechkin.

I've been on record, and still am, as saying that it baffles me how guys who are elite defensively but can't score are valued but guys who can flat-out score but weaker defensively are vilified.

It truly baffles me. I understand people might question effort, but for the life of me, I don't get how guys who can score 50 times against NHL defensemen and goalies are viewed as liabilities -- they might not be the MVPs of the league, but holy hell, it's DAMN HARD to score in that league.
- AllInForFlyers

What it comes down to for me is this. Take Steve Yzerman for example. Big time point producer in his early career. 150 pts or so a Season. Tremendous offensive player. But it wasn't until he dedicated himself to the all around game and made himself into a top 2 way player, that he truly became a top player. And learned to play the game the right way.
Now I'm not expecting Ovechkin to turn into a Selke level forward like Yzerman did. But you can't tell me that if Ovechkin improved his play away from the puck, that the Caps wouldn't benefit from that.

Does not compute.

I want to go home. The seat team needs to move!!!

How is swat not a word in this phones dictionary?
- Flyersgod

Not a Monty Python fan, eh?

EDIT: As for autocorrect, don't get me started. It ruins everything.

Patrice Bergeron, 2006-07....-28
Alexander Edler, this season ....-29
Dale Hawerchuk 1988-89...-30
Borje Salming 1983-84...-34
- Jsaquella

Holy crap, Patrice Bergeron once had one bad season one an awful team? He obviously stinks defensively.

Patrice Bergeron, 2006-07....-28
Alexander Edler, this season ....-29
Dale Hawerchuk 1988-89...-30
Borje Salming 1983-84...-34
- Jsaquella

That was Bergeron's 3rd season and he was on a bad team. Look at Ovechkin's +/- compared with the rest of his team. His is way worse than anyone else.

Alex Ovechkin 2009-10... +45
- Tomahawk

Mark Howe '85-'86... +85

Give me Datsyuk and Bergeron, who will (if healthy) pot 30 goals and can stop one-trick ponies like Ovechkin over the guy who scores a lot of goals but can't stop a player well.
- jmatchett383

Both Datsyuk & Bergeron have scored 30 goals one time in their careers.

I agree, all other things being even, I'd take them before Ovechkin. But if I already had Toews, then give me Ovechkin