The usage of Gustafsson is one of my bigger issues with Berube. The Flyers play well when he is in. He brings an element of speed and skating ability they lack when he's not in.
- Jsaquella

It certainly hasn't help his growth with the limited ice time he's seen this year.

It certainly hasn't help his growth with the limited ice time he's seen this year.
- LJF

I wonder how large he looms in their future plans. He's not much more than a 4/5 himself, but he brings an element they've been lacking more so than the other 4/5/6 guys they're dressing.

I do worry that they'll hand MacDonald a huge deal when they have Gustafsson who can handle the mobility and puck moving assets that were the main reason that they traded for MacDonald

The usage of Gustafsson is one of my bigger issues with Berube. The Flyers play well when he is in. He brings an element of speed and skating ability they lack when he's not in.
- Jsaquella

I also don't understand Berube's problem with Gustafsson. Maybe in his mind Grossmann and Gus pay different roles so he doesn't want to swap one out for the other. I understand that line of reasoning but don't necessarily agree with it 100%. IMO Gus has played well enough to stay in the lineup based on his limited games.

You play him with Timo. Sure its a small pair, but they are both mobile enough and Timo is still very good defensively.
(in no particular order)
Timo - Gus
Schenn Mac
Striet Coburn

I wonder how large he looms in their future plans. He's not much more than a 4/5 himself, but he brings an element they've been lacking more so than the other 4/5/6 guys they're dressing.

I do worry that they'll hand MacDonald a huge deal when they have Gustafsson who can handle the mobility and puck moving assets that were the main reason that they traded for MacDonald
- Jsaquella

I'd honestly be surprised to see Gus still here next fall.

And AMac is a fine upgrade on Grossmann.... now they just have to find a way to get rid of the old one.

I'd honestly be surprised to see Gus still here next fall.

And AMac is a fine upgrade on Grossmann.... now they just have to find a way to get rid of the old one.
- Tomahawk

unfortunately i'd be surprised to see gus still here as well... although I hope they find a permanent spot on the 3rd pairing for the guy next season.

I'll be on the train back to hell during the game.

Hopefully Amtrak's WiFi is good enough to stream a game

I also don't understand Berube's problem with Gustafsson. Maybe in his mind Grossmann and Gus pay different roles so he doesn't want to swap one out for the other. I understand that line of reasoning but don't necessarily agree with it 100%. IMO Gus has played well enough to stay in the lineup based on his limited games.

You play him with Timo. Sure its a small pair, but they are both mobile enough and Timo is still very good defensively.
(in no particular order)
Timo - Gus
Schenn Mac
Striet Coburn
- MBFlyerfan

They could sit Schenn or MacDonald, too. I think MacDoanld gets savaged a bit unfairly by stats heads, but he's also just another 4/5 guy himself.

The main attributes that make MacDonald a solid addition-the mobility, ability to make an outlet pass and simply being able to make the little the puck out of trouble are all things that Gus can do.

MacDonald is better in his own end than Gustafsson, but I am not sure that he's $3.5mm a year better.

I'd honestly be surprised to see Gus still here next fall.

And AMac is a fine upgrade on Grossmann.... now they just have to find a way to get rid of the old one.
- Tomahawk

Yeah, if they dump Grossmann to keep MacDonald and Luke Schenn, I'm fine with it.

I'm not sure I'd be surprised to see Gus stay, because I can see them letting him walk without a QO. I could see them selling low in a trade, though

Your point?
- Daveflyers36

Was trying to be funny, I failed you

Yeah, if they dump Grossmann to keep MacDonald and Luke Schenn, I'm fine with it.

I'm not sure I'd be surprised to see Gus stay, because I can see them letting him walk without a QO. I could see them selling low in a trade, though
- Jsaquella

Like with JVR?

Sold way too low.

Like with JVR?

Sold way too low.
- Flyersgod

Well, the difference is, Gustafsson isn't likely to develop into a first pair, stud defenseman. JvR has become the 30 goal scoring, first line winger that most predicted he'd become.

If you're going to sell a 3rd pair defenseman low the implications are not as dire.

They could sit Schenn or MacDonald, too. I think MacDoanld gets savaged a bit unfairly by stats heads, but he's also just another 4/5 guy himself.

The main attributes that make MacDonald a solid addition-the mobility, ability to make an outlet pass and simply being able to make the little the puck out of trouble are all things that Gus can do.

MacDonald is better in his own end than Gustafsson, but I am not sure that he's $3.5mm a year better.
- Jsaquella

Don't forget other things he can do. His shot block ability is a huge asset to his game.

He's not like Grossmann out there who we more or less rag on for "just being able to block shots". But AMac's block ability coupled with his mobility, calmness with the disc, and ability to deliver a fine outlet pass is a great combo for any dman to have.

Gus certainly doesn't have that. Does shot blocking make AMac 3.5 mil better than Gus on its own? Certainly not. But couple that with his overall solid all around game and the impact he's had on this D corps since he's arrived here, I definitely think he's 3.5 mil more valuable than Gus.

Lose today and we can forget home ice in round one.
- Daveflyers36

That ship has likely sailed regardless of what happens today

Nj has 4 games left...

Calgary
Ottawa
Islanders
Boston

CLB has 4 games and a PPD game they're up 1-0 in vs Dallas
Phoenix
Islanders
Tampa
Florida

Philadelphia has 5 games left

Buffalo
Florida
Tampa
Pittsburgh
Carolina

Really all up to us to win a spot.

Well, the difference is, Gustafsson isn't likely to develop into a first pair, stud defenseman. JvR has become the 30 goal scoring, first line winger that most predicted he'd become.

If you're going to sell a 3rd pair defenseman low the implications are not as dire.
- Jsaquella

I'm pretty bitter over the JVR trade. The idea that our tanked season only got us Luke is unbearable to me.

Don't forget other things he can do. His shot block ability is a huge asset to his game.

He's not like Grossmann out there who we more or less rag on for "just being able to block shots". But AMac's block ability coupled with his mobility, calmness with the disc, and ability to deliver a fine outlet pass is a great combo for any dman to have.

Gus certainly doesn't have that. Does shot blocking make AMac 3.5 mil better than Gus on its own? Certainly not. But couple that with his overall solid all around game and the impact he's had on this D corps since he's arrived here, I definitely think he's 3.5 mil more valuable than Gus.
- Giroux_Is_God

I disagree. It doesn't take skill to block shots, it takes guts.

Shot blocking is a double edged sword. It's not a bad thing, but if you're doing a lot of it, it means that you're out there quite a bit when your team doesn't possess the puck.

I know the disdain for advanced stats here, but the numbers on MacDonald since his arrival in terms of Corsi, Fenwick and other shot stats show that he's on the ice for more shots against than for, even more so than Grossmann.

It's not the end all, be all, but it is concerning. I think MacDonald has been solid. I also think that could sign a similar player or better player in UFA for similar or less money.

I mean, I'd rather have Ron Hainsey at $4mm than AMac at $4.5mm. Even better would be a guy like Anton Stralman at $4mm.

I'm not sure I'd be surprised to see Gus stay, because I can see them letting him walk without a QO. I could see them selling low in a trade, though
- Jsaquella

Either as a throw in to some trade package, or heading overseas to chase a better playing opportunity... those are the two scenarios I feel are pretty likely.

Either as a throw in to some trade package, or heading overseas to chase a better playing opportunity... those are the two scenarios I feel are pretty likely.
- Tomahawk

He could possibly head over to the SEL.

I disagree. It doesn't take skill to block shots, it takes guts.

Shot blocking is a double edged sword. It's not a bad thing, but if you're doing a lot of it, it means that you're out there quite a bit when your team doesn't possess the puck.

I know the disdain for advanced stats here, but the numbers on MacDonald since his arrival in terms of Corsi, Fenwick and other shot stats show that he's on the ice for more shots against than for, even more so than Grossmann.

It's not the end all, be all, but it is concerning. I think MacDonald has been solid. I also think that could sign a similar player or better player in UFA for similar or less money.

I mean, I'd rather have Ron Hainsey at $4mm than AMac at $4.5mm. Even better would be a guy like Anton Stralman at $4mm.
- Jsaquella

I hear what you're saying but I think you might have missed my point.

To put it another way, Gus is one dimensional. Mac is not. He has good mobility, passing ability, decent offensive instincts, plays well defensively, and can block 200 shots in a season.

Gus is a puck mover.

Also his arrival allowed Chief to finally find 3 pairings he can roll out and not get blatantly exposed for the most part. I do think he's worth a 4.5 mil hit for these 2 reasons.

It also doesn't help that Grossmann isn't very good. He's a limited, stay at home 4/5 guy who doesn't posses good puck skills, sometimes has issues reading plays and can get beat positionally because of it.

I'm not saying that to start another Grossmann war, but the guy isn't that good and hasn't been for most of the year. He's had some good games, but he's hardly a stalwart defensive defenseman.
- Jsaquella

Puck possession ends with grossman.

2009-09 top 6 scorer's, (just 4 seasons ago)

gms gls ast pts
17 Jeff Carter C 82 46 38 84
18 Mike Richards C 79 30 50 80
12 Simon Gagne L 79 34 40 74
19 Scott Hartnell L 82 30 30 60
15 Joffrey Lupul R 79 25 25 50
22 Mike Knuble R 82 27 20 47

I disagree. It doesn't take skill to block shots, it takes guts.

Shot blocking is a double edged sword. It's not a bad thing, but if you're doing a lot of it, it means that you're out there quite a bit when your team doesn't possess the puck.

I know the disdain for advanced stats here, but the numbers on MacDonald since his arrival in terms of Corsi, Fenwick and other shot stats show that he's on the ice for more shots against than for, even more so than Grossmann.

It's not the end all, be all, but it is concerning. I think MacDonald has been solid. I also think that could sign a similar player or better player in UFA for similar or less money.

I mean, I'd rather have Ron Hainsey at $4mm than AMac at $4.5mm. Even better would be a guy like Anton Stralman at $4mm.
- Jsaquella

I'll disagree here. Amac looks good to me. He tends to get thrown out with the 2nd line a lot. That can't help. I'd take amac over those other guys for similar money

They could sit Schenn or MacDonald, too. I think MacDoanld gets savaged a bit unfairly by stats heads, but he's also just another 4/5 guy himself.

The main attributes that make MacDonald a solid addition-the mobility, ability to make an outlet pass and simply being able to make the little the puck out of trouble are all things that Gus can do.

MacDonald is better in his own end than Gustafsson, but I am not sure that he's $3.5mm a year better.
- Jsaquella

Seriously?

Not sure why he gets bashed, he's been a stabilizing player on this back line since his acquisition, also steading Luke's game a ton.

So he's not a $3.5 million a year player?

I'll disagree here. Amac looks good to me. He tends to get thrown out with the 2nd line a lot. That can't help. I'd take amac over those other guys for similar money
- Just5

Kimo, Coburn, & MacDonald are the top 3 D men that we have, (as of today), and Mac has helped Luke's game tremendously!

For all the criticism that Grossmann is still taking, yes, he's one dimensional, but no more one dimensional then Streit is.

I hear what you're saying but I think you might have missed my point.

To put it another way, Gus is one dimensional. Mac is not. He has good mobility, passing ability, decent offensive instincts, plays well defensively, and can block 200 shots in a season.

Gus is a puck mover.

Also his arrival allowed Chief to finally find 3 pairings he can roll out and not get blatantly exposed for the most part. I do think he's worth a 4.5 mil hit for these 2 reasons.
- Giroux_Is_God

It's not really comparing Gustafsson to MacDonald-even though the Flyers were able to roll 3 pairs before MacDonald arrived, when they used Gustafsson with Schenn...and actually, the advanced stats for Schenn are similar with Gus compared to what they are with MacDonald.

It's about being smart in utilizing a finite asset-cap space. They only get so much cap space, they have to allocate it wisely. That's why I mention Stralman or Hainsey, two guys similar or arguably better than MacDonald, who will command salaries similar to, or less than, what MacDonald will make.

Grossmann is one dimensional, as well. He's getting $3.5mm for his lone dimension, which is usually easily added for about $1.5-$2mm less than what Grossmann is getting paid. If They do keep MacDonald, I'd like to see Grossmann be shipped out.