He moves better than Schenn, though -- that's the thing about Schenn that will limit his minutes. I'm not saying he's slow, or trying to start an argument. But Schenn's skating is the weakest part of his game

I'd probably do Schenn/Ghost for Bogosian, TBH -- granted, I haven't seen a ton of his games so I don't know if he's totally clueless in his own zone. But if he was adequate in his own zone, I'd do it
- AllInForFlyers

I wouldn't do either for him, which probably isn't rational. I just don't think he'll ever be anything more than maybe a Dennis Wideman type of player. He had two really good seasons to start his career, and then just plummeted. I'd rather role the dice with Ghost.

I'm very split on it. I'm leery of trading a young forward who's had a breakout year for a defenseman after the JvR deal (although it was a breakout year followed by injuries). If push came to shove, I'd probably do it, though.
- jmatchett383

I would do it too. Josi plays a lot of minutes and many of them are with Weber. That'd be my only concern.

They aren't going to get a young, top pair defenseman without warts for a guy like Schenn.

People knew the JVR Schenn trade was bad right when it happened. Most of the time, the initial reaction to trades is fairly accurate.

Impossible, with the great captain they have over there, it has to be injuries.
- jmatchett383

Phaneuf is a "scapegoat"

But aside from a short stint on the top line, Raffl has either been on that same line with Read or playing with the like of Rinaldo and Hall as linemates. I'm sure that his production could also increase if he were played on a scoring line and not counted on for his defensive responsibility.
- jmatchett383

Or if he could actually bury a shot. Dude gets stoned more often than cheech.

It's either bad luck or a weak shot.

I think they will. They have successfully thrown James Riemer under the bus to the extent where I think both get another year to put it back together. Carlyle, himself, has only been there for 2 calendar years, with this being his second full season with the Leafs.

The Leafs just give up too many shots.

In Washington, however, I wonder what pictures GMGM has of Ted Leonsis.
- johndewar

Yeah, but isn't it kinda hard to throw the backup goalie under the bus?

He moves better than Schenn, though -- that's the thing about Schenn that will limit his minutes. I'm not saying he's slow, or trying to start an argument. But Schenn's skating is the weakest part of his game

I'd probably do Schenn/Ghost for Bogosian, TBH -- granted, I haven't seen a ton of his games so I don't know if he's totally clueless in his own zone. But if he was adequate in his own zone, I'd do it
- AllInForFlyers

For sure, he's a much more viable two-way contributor than Schenn could ever be.

I think he would be well worth the gamble... hopefully the Jets' sense of desperation and possible need to pare salary works into the Flyers' hands.

I would do it too. Josi plays a lot of minutes and many of them are with Weber. That'd be my only concern.

They aren't going to get a young, top pair defenseman without warts for a guy like Schenn.

People knew the JVR Schenn trade was bad right when it happened. Most of the time, the initial reaction to trades is fairly accurate.
- PhillySportsGuy

I remember that, after the Neal/Niskanen for Goligoski trade, everyone said it was a steal for Pittsburgh. Neal went on to score 1 goal the rest of the year, Niskanen was a turnover machine, and Goligoski finished with a bang. A lot of the same people changed their tune. We saw how that turned out.

And (frank) James Neal.

No idea... I'd stop before Brayden Schenn, that's for sure.
- Tomahawk

You don't think Bogosian's a classic example of talented guy on horrific franchise, like Bouuwmeester wasting all those years in Florida?

I understand that the Flyers shouldn't expose themselves to extreme amounts of risk, but my goodness, if you can't pull a reclamation project on a talent like Bogosian, how in the world are you ever going to get a guy like that?

Because it's totally unacceptable to pick No. 4 overall, ever, with this franchise

Phaneuf is a "scapegoat"
- PLindbergh31

Carlyle basically uses him like he's Chris Pronger in his prime... the guy is completely run down.

I think the price would be relatively reasonable. Much less than going after a guy that isn't battling injuries and a down year, that's for sure.
- Tomahawk

Sounds kind of like the scenario with JVR.... Using that logic Rinaldo for Bogo!

GET IT DONE HOLMLESS!

Yeah, but isn't it kinda hard to throw the backup goalie under the bus?
- PLindbergh31

Riemer was playing because Bernier was hurt.

Carlyle basically uses him like he's Chris Pronger in his prime... the guy is completely run down.
- Tomahawk

Yup.... I believe he's averaging 25+ a game, and hard minutes against top lines, and PK.

Yup.... I believe he's averaging 25+ a game, and hard minutes against top lines, and PK.
- PLindbergh31

If he's making $7M/year, he'd better be, whether he can or not.

If he's making $7M/year, he'd better be, whether he can or not.
- jmatchett383

Well we all know salary doesn't necessarily mean top performance.

Carlyle basically uses him like he's Chris Pronger in his prime... the guy is completely run down.
- Tomahawk

Tragic, what's gone on up there -- I don't even know how to explain what I've seen from the Leafs.

I don't think a team has to play like the 2000 New Jersey Devils to win, but I've never seen a team play defense as poorly as the Leafs do.

It's easy for them to scapegoat Phaneuf up there, but that poor guy...he's probably a 2/3 on a good team, and instead he's playing 25 minutes a night against the world's best hockey players

Well we all know salary doesn't necessarily mean top performance.
- PLindbergh31

Not at all, but I'mjust saying that the salary pretty much told you that TML see him as that type of player, so it's to be expected.

Carlyle basically uses him like he's Chris Pronger in his prime... the guy is completely run down.
- Tomahawk

And Gunnarsson

Think Trouba's untouchable -- his ascension does make it more likely that Bogosian could get dealt. He has prime reclamation written all over him -- or he could be another Luke Schenn.
- Tomahawk

Well than we should trade Laughton for him.

Riemer was playing because Bernier was hurt.
- johndewar

I know. But when a season goes south, and the starter gets hurt, hard to lay the blame on the backup tender.

I know. But when a season goes south, and the starter gets hurt, hard to lay the blame on the backup tender.
- PLindbergh31

Have you ever been to Philadelphia?

Not at all, but I'mjust saying that the salary pretty much told you that TML see him as that type of player, so it's to be expected.
- jmatchett383

Absolutely. I agree. I'm not sure Phaneuf is worth that kind of money.

Have you ever been to Philadelphia?
- jmatchett383

On occasion. Did you smell that fire in Burlington County this morning? I live about 70 miles from there and it was brutal.

Yeah, but isn't it kinda hard to throw the backup goalie under the bus?
- PLindbergh31

They can blame the goalies all they want but their sv% is as good as the Blues but the team is giving up like 800 more shots.

Absolutely. I agree. I'm not sure Phaneuf is worth that kind of money.
- PLindbergh31

Market blah blah blah, absolutely blah blah blah.

They can blame the goalies all they want but their sv% is as good as the Blues but the team is giving up like 800 more shots.
- mayorofangrytown

Everyone sees it as a collapse. In reality, its just regression the mean.