Not with the lack of goaltending, BUT, they wouldn't have the drop off they did and I could almost guarantee you they would be in the playoffs.

But I don't think Toronto would admit it. They are infatuated with the high goals guys and seem to toss aside good two way players.

I bet this guy would rather have Karlsson on his team over Chara, but Chara would have them in the playoffs and Karlsson would have them in basically the same place they are now.
- JIwasinskiJr

Chara eats babies.
No one wants Karlsson outside of ottawa.

Not with the lack of goaltending, BUT, they wouldn't have the drop off they did and I could almost guarantee you they would be in the playoffs.

But I don't think Toronto would admit it. They are infatuated with the high goals guys and seem to toss aside good two way players.

I bet this guy would rather have Karlsson on his team over Chara, but Chara would have them in the playoffs and Karlsson would have them in basically the same place they are now.
- JIwasinskiJr

Cause without goals you can't win hockey games. And to score goals, you can't play defense. So defense = losing. And no defense = stanley cup.

I wonder how the devils did it all those years.......

Cause without goals you can't win hockey games. And to score goals, you can't play defense. So defense = losing. And no defense = stanley cup.

I wonder how the devils did it all those years.......
- FlyersSteve118

By knocking Lindros out year after year by way of Mr Stevens.

+/- is not a tell all stat. You need more information to make it useful. I just don't understand what you don't get from that.

Ovie is the top scorer on his team. 75 points and -35. The rest of his team is pretty much just below 0 ranging from -3 to -10 with a few outliers.

The teams +/- is -17. He is SIGNIFICANTLY lower while putting up the most points against. These are VERY telling stats.

You have to try really hard to be that bad defensively and some guys couldn't accomplish this feat if they started shooting pucks at their own net.
- FlyersSteve118

No kidding that's my entire point. Criticizing Ovechkin for +/- is petty, especially when he's scoring 50 goals

The Hulk, Ironman, and Captain America(Bergeron) could be on this team ans we would still be golfing.

One player doesn't make a team bud.
- IRON.MAIDEN

May not know this but Bergeron is Canadian......he was also on the Canadian Olympic team.

And I watched the games in the Olympics, they were far and away the best team on the tournament. Just because your team doesn't put up 6 goals a game doesn't mean you are not dominant.

No kidding that's my entire point. Criticizing Ovechkin for +/- is petty, especially when he's scoring 50 goals
- sbroads24

May not know this but Bergeron is Canadian......he was also on the Canadian Olympic team.

And I watched the games in the Olympics, they were far and away the best team on the tournament. Just because your team doesn't put up 6 goals a game doesn't mean you are not dominant.
- JIwasinskiJr

You may not know this but I was mocking your love of Bergeron by calling him Captain America. I also called him God..

But I know his isn't really God, or American...

And again, Canada was not dominant. Price was.

No kidding that's my entire point. Criticizing Ovechkin for +/- is petty, especially when he's scoring 50 goals
- sbroads24

Let me try to help you with this, because it doesn't seem that you are reading my full comments.

Please read them if you REALLY want to understand what I am saying.

I watched him play twice over the last couple weeks and he is not impressive IMO. The +/-, IMO, does seem to correlate to what I have I watched recently.

He does not back check, he is not on the PK, he is a defensive liability, he doesn't lead or power his team into the playoffs, etc.

This is what I watched and what I feel in my observations, if you disagree then so be it.

No kidding that's my entire point. Criticizing Ovechkin for +/- is petty, especially when he's scoring 50 goals
- sbroads24

Ok I'll start from the beginning. Hockey is a sport played on ice. There are two goals on each side of the ice. Each team has 6 players on the ice at a time; 3 forwards (left wing, right wing, and center) and 2 defensemen....

If I am a GM, I only pay 60c on the $. With the physical way he (used to) play and him getting older, a similar return on investment is unsustainable except for in merchandise.
How about OV and Mike Green for Doughty and Brown...that may be an interesting dynamic next season?

If I am a GM, I only pay 60c on the $. With the physical way he (used to) play and him getting older, a similar return on investment is unsustainable except for in merchandise.
How about OV and Mike Green for Doughty and Brown...that may be an interesting dynamic next season?
- FLflames34

If the Caps trade Ovie. I am sure they will want 2 1st round picks or its no go.

No kidding that's my entire point. Criticizing Ovechkin for +/- is petty, especially when he's scoring 50 goals
- sbroads24

That makes no sense. In truth, it makes his fatal flaw to team play all the more evident. His game has regressed significantly. If he had 30 goals he would get the Heatley treatment. And rightfully so.

You may not know this but I was mocking your love of Bergeron by calling him Captain America. I also called him God..

But I know his isn't really God, or American...

And again, Canada was not dominant. Price was.
- IRON.MAIDEN

Now I know you are either kidding or just don't have a clue. Anyone with eyes and a brain would know that Price was not dominant because he didn't have to be.

He was not the reason they won and after that comment and since your simply going to mock and not really support your reasoning for why YOU think OVI is so great I'm done.

We'll have a good night and good luck to your respected teams.

If the Caps trade Ovie. I am sure they will want 2 1st round picks or its no go.
- FlyersSteve118

The two players I proposed give instant leadership and offense on the D that draft picks would not. Leonsis is not likely an owner to embrace a rebuild.
If I was Lombardi I say no...but I think it is a fair enough proposal.

Ok I'll start from the beginning. Hockey is a sport played on ice. There are two goals on each side of the ice. Each team has 6 players on the ice at a time; 3 forwards (left wing, right wing, and center) and 2 defensemen....


- FlyersSteve118

I'm shocked you know this much

That makes no sense. In truth, it makes his fatal flaw to team play all the more evident. His game has regressed significantly. If he had 30 goals he would get the Heatley treatment. And rightfully so.
- FLflames34

It makes nothing more evident. He's on the ice a lot. His team gets scored on a lot. Therefore his +/- sucks..... Story ends here.

I find it hilarious that a guy that scores 50+ goals now has to be a defensive stalwart otherwise his team "can't win with him"

Some players are one dimensional. Phil Kessel is a great goal scorer who barely plays a lick of defense. Where is the hate for him?

Now I know you are either kidding or just don't have a clue. Anyone with eyes and a brain would know that Price was not dominant because he didn't have to be.

He was not the reason they won and after that comment and since your simply going to mock and not really support your reasoning for why YOU think OVI is so great I'm done.

We'll have a good night and good luck to your respected teams.
- JIwasinskiJr

Canada won because the other teams were constructed terribly save Finland and Sweden....and Russia. They also won because Russia laid a giant deuce after they lost to USA and got all sad. And they had no defense , but were still the only other team who could have realistically beat Canada. OV dogged it like he did in Vancouver. I still feel bad for Pavel and Kovalchuk.

It makes nothing more evident. He's on the ice a lot. His team gets scored on a lot. Therefore his +/- sucks..... Story ends here.

I find it hilarious that a guy that scores 50+ goals now has to be a defensive stalwart otherwise his team "can't win with him"

Some players are one dimensional. Phil Kessel is a great goal scorer who barely plays a lick of defense. Where is the hate for him?
- sbroads24

Check out a maple leafs forum lol.

Canada won because the other teams were constructed terribly save Finland and Sweden....and Russia. They also won because Russia laid a giant deuce after they lost to USA and got all sad. And they had no defense , but were still the only other team who could have realistically beat Canada. OV dogged it like he did in Vancouver. I still feel bad for Pavel and Kovalchuk.
- FLflames34

You are proving my point. And I think Russia didn't have a chance, too top heavy with no grinder, except for Pavel.
D and will wins championships, O and style wins regular seasons and sells jerseys.

It makes nothing more evident. He's on the ice a lot. His team gets scored on a lot. Therefore his +/- sucks..... Story ends here.

I find it hilarious that a guy that scores 50+ goals now has to be a defensive stalwart otherwise his team "can't win with him"

Some players are one dimensional. Phil Kessel is a great goal scorer who barely plays a lick of defense. Where is the hate for him?
- sbroads24

For Kessel, it is easy....to make fun of Phaneuf and the purpoted blue chipper Gardiner. Washington has crappy defense. It doesn't excuse OV leading by example and chipping in. He is wearing a C after all. A bit of effort and less cherrypicking would be nice. Phaneuf...incorrectly...wears the C and so earns blame.Kessel is the only thing keeping Toronto from the basement. Take OV off the Caps and replace him with a 50 pt player and I bet they are still in 9th/10th.

For Kessel, it is easy....to make fun of Phaneuf and the purpoted blue chipper Gardiner. Washington has crappy defense. It doesn't excuse OV leading by example and chipping in. He is wearing a C after all. A bit of effort and less cherrypicking would be nice. Phaneuf...incorrectly...wears the C and so earns blame.Kessel is the only thing keeping Toronto from the basement. Take OV off the Caps and replace him with a 50 pt player and I bet they are still in 9th/10th.
- FLflames34

A 50 pt player that is even +/- is 10 more goals for your team that Ovie brings this year, which makes you a better team. (Estimated based off points scored and +/-).

Here's how you make Ovechkin successful: put him on a line with Jere Lehtinen and Guy Carbonneau.

A 50 pt player that is even +/- is 10 more goals for your team that Ovie brings this year, which makes you a better team. (Estimated based off points scored and +/-).
- FlyersSteve118

You are basing this off of Ovechkin being at fault for every goal he's on the ice for.

Again, he's on the ice a lot, end of power plays, empty netters that count against his +/- etc. Should he be better defensively? Sure, but you are nuts IMO if you think he is easily replaced.

He has 9 game winners too

You are basing this off of Ovechkin being at fault for every goal he's on the ice for.

Again, he's on the ice a lot, end of power plays, empty netters that count against his +/- etc. Should he be better defensively? Sure, but you are nuts IMO if you think he is easily replaced.

He has 9 game winners too
- sbroads24

Using the boston fan logic....

Bergeron would have been able to get the Leafs into the playoffs if he were a Leaf.

So, if Bergeron is able to correct the defensive woes of an entire team, imagine what he would do to Ovis stats if he was a Cap!!

Last time I checked, the Caps have average tending, an average D corps, and suspect defensive forwards. To claim Ovi is worthless based on his plus minus on this team is like saying one garbage bag stinks the most in a dump.

There is truth behind the +\- when u apply it to how the OV plays. Very extended shifts, too much floating and unwillingness to play a team game all leads to a terrible plus minus.