So if a player is traded he isn't good enough to build around?
- Flyersgod

Who said that?

Fun fact: Byfuglien would have taken the most shots of anybody on the Flyers by about 30; Jake would be in 2nd place, followed by G and 5 other forwards until we get to a d-man, Timonen.

Still, that was 4 years ago. And the Blackhawks were a, you know, decent team when he was on the squad.

Byfuglien would be interesting, likely even exciting to have on the Flyers, but no way I'm giving up a bunch of youth for him. And he doesn't come close to filling the hole left by Timonen (sooner or later).
- wolfhounds

Exactly, which is why he doesn't interest me for the Flyers.

So you're saying one player can't carry a team to the cup, but you only want a dman who can carry a team to the cup?


- Flyersgod

No I'm saying that stating that Byfuglien won a Cup with Chicago is not a valid reason to have interest in him as a player, for the Flyers. Especially with the role he had on that team.

Schenn and Gus had a real rough night. It's difficult to criticize Gus when he's played once in, what, 30 games. Difficult to find a rhythm under those circumstances.

Flyers really beat themselves last night. They worked really hard, but had some major lapses that resulted in goals.

I wasn't mad about the 1st or 4th goal. The second goal was just poor checking. Panick had all day in the slot. The 3rd goal was Downie falling asleep and letting the fleet footed Brewer wobble behind him for a wide open shot.

Few Thoughts:

-The Flyers didn't play a bad overall game last night. They had defensive breakdowns, spotty goaltending and failed to capitalize on a lot of prime scoring chances. Lindback played well and had a lot of luck. His defense made a few saves for him as well.

The Flyers controlled large stretches of the game, avoiding the mistakes and getting a bounce here or there and they easily could have gotten the win.It sucks, but not a horrible loss.

-We have folks willing to bend over backwards to pay Andrew MacDonald $5mm a year, but they refuse to consider Dustin Byfuglien?

Yeah, Ideally, the Flyers could get a Duncan Keith or Shea Weber, but realistically, they're facing a different set of options. Guys like that aren't traded often and they usually cost an arm and a leg. A guy like Byfuglien isn't in their class. But as such, he will not cost as much as one of those guys.

I'd rather have a Byfuglien on the roster at $5.25mm for a couple years than MacDonald for 4 years at $5mm. That doesn't mean trade whatever the asking price is, it's simply saying to keep options open. That's what intelligent GM's do.

-The Flyers could use a good winger to play on the Giroux line. If they decide to buy time and hang on to Timonen for another year or add a Boyle type as a FA, then perhaps they make a move for a more dynamic scorer.
- Jsaquella

We already traded assets for AMac, now it's a matter of dollars. For Byfuglien, it all comes down to what the price is to acquire him on top of the dollars. Personally, I don't give up much to get him.

Few Thoughts:

-The Flyers didn't play a bad overall game last night. They had defensive breakdowns, spotty goaltending and failed to capitalize on a lot of prime scoring chances. Lindback played well and had a lot of luck. His defense made a few saves for him as well.

The Flyers controlled large stretches of the game, avoiding the mistakes and getting a bounce here or there and they easily could have gotten the win.It sucks, but not a horrible loss.

-We have folks willing to bend over backwards to pay Andrew MacDonald $5mm a year, but they refuse to consider Dustin Byfuglien?

Yeah, Ideally, the Flyers could get a Duncan Keith or Shea Weber, but realistically, they're facing a different set of options. Guys like that aren't traded often and they usually cost an arm and a leg. A guy like Byfuglien isn't in their class. But as such, he will not cost as much as one of those guys.

I'd rather have a Byfuglien on the roster at $5.25mm for a couple years than MacDonald for 4 years at $5mm. That doesn't mean trade whatever the asking price is, it's simply saying to keep options open. That's what intelligent GM's do.

-The Flyers could use a good winger to play on the Giroux line. If they decide to buy time and hang on to Timonen for another year or add a Boyle type as a FA, then perhaps they make a move for a more dynamic scorer.
- Jsaquella

Yes, because MacDonald is a better all around player then Byfuglien is. And with the Flyers already having Mark Streit signed in that role. An player like MacDonald is a better fit going forward then Byfuglien is. It's a no brainer.
It's about far more then salary.
Of all the young tradeable assets that the Flyers have that would bring back a sizable return. There is not a single one that I would deal for Byfuglien.

We already traded assets for AMac, now it's a matter of dollars. For Byfuglien, it all comes down to what the price is to acquire him on top of the dollars. Personally, I don't give up much to get him.
- wolfhounds

Not saying I would either. Which is kind of written word for word in the original post.

Few Thoughts:

-The Flyers didn't play a bad overall game last night. They had defensive breakdowns, spotty goaltending and failed to capitalize on a lot of prime scoring chances. Lindback played well and had a lot of luck. His defense made a few saves for him as well.

The Flyers controlled large stretches of the game, avoiding the mistakes and getting a bounce here or there and they easily could have gotten the win.It sucks, but not a horrible loss.

-We have folks willing to bend over backwards to pay Andrew MacDonald $5mm a year, but they refuse to consider Dustin Byfuglien?

Yeah, Ideally, the Flyers could get a Duncan Keith or Shea Weber, but realistically, they're facing a different set of options. Guys like that aren't traded often and they usually cost an arm and a leg. A guy like Byfuglien isn't in their class. But as such, he will not cost as much as one of those guys.

I'd rather have a Byfuglien on the roster at $5.25mm for a couple years than MacDonald for 4 years at $5mm. That doesn't mean trade whatever the asking price is, it's simply saying to keep options open. That's what intelligent GM's do.

-The Flyers could use a good winger to play on the Giroux line. If they decide to buy time and hang on to Timonen for another year or add a Boyle type as a FA, then perhaps they make a move for a more dynamic scorer.
- Jsaquella

The difference between Buff and Mac is the amount you'd have to give up. They gave up a 2nd/3rd for Mac. If the Jets are willing to take that for Buff, then go ahead and grab him. I don't have any problem with Buff's salary. I just don't want to part with guys like Couts or multiple assets like Schenn and Morin for him.

How would you feel about the Flyers signing Jagr (this assuming they can unload VL to open up some money). Jagr plays with G and Jake moves down to play with B. Schenn.

-We have folks willing to bend over backwards to pay Andrew MacDonald $5mm a year, but they refuse to consider Dustin Byfuglien?
- Jsaquella

Not saying I would either. Which is kind of written word for word in the original post.
- Jsaquella

Yup, I saw that. And also said the same thing earlier in the thread.

Edit: But you know the Pegs are going to want something significant, so it comes down to what is an "acceptable" payment.

Yes, because MacDonald is a better all around player then Byfuglien is. And with the Flyers already having Mark Streit signed in that role. An player like MacDonald is a better fit going forward then Byfuglien is. It's a no brainer.
It's about far more then salary.
Of all the young tradeable assets that the Flyers have that would bring back a sizable return. There is not a single one that I would deal for Byfuglien.
- MJL

10/10

The difference between Buff and Mac is the amount you'd have to give up. They gave up a 2nd/3rd for Mac. If the Jets are willing to take that for Buff, then go ahead and grab him. I don't have any problem with Buff's salary. I just don't want to part with guys like Couts or multiple assets like Schenn and Morin for him.

How would you feel about the Flyers signing Jagr (this assuming they can unload VL to open up some money). Jagr plays with G and Jake moves down to play with B. Schenn.
- PhillySportsGuy

My issue is paying MacDonald $4mm or $5mm regardless what they traded to get him. I don't have an issue with the trade for the guy, but that doesn't mean they should run out and give him a significant overpayment because they traded a 2nd rounder for him.

I agree wholeheartedly about overpaying in terms of assets for Byfuglien or really anyone. My issue is more with this insistence that MacDonald is some kind of cornerstone piece. He's a 4/5 guy. Does some things well, has trouble with others.

I'm fine with adding Jagr as a UFA. Wouldn't even think twice about it.

Yup, I saw that. And also said the same thing earlier in the thread.

Edit: But you know the Pegs are going to want something significant, so it comes down to what is an "acceptable" payment.
- wolfhounds

And if you can't come to an agreement, you walk away. It's about keeping options open. If you limit yourself to paying Andrew MacDonald $5mm a year for 4 years, then you miss an opportunity to perhaps get a better player.

Yup, I saw that. And also said the same thing earlier in the thread.

Edit: But you know the Pegs are going to want something significant, so it comes down to what is an "acceptable" payment.
- wolfhounds

Nobody wants to pay out the nose for Byfuglien... we've all made that clear.

I'd be more than happy to give up the Flyers' equivalent of Stajan/Hagman/Aulie for him, if Chevyldayoff was in a panic like Sutter was back in '10, though.

He fits a lot of the needs this team has that guys like Streit and AMac can only try to fill... big-minute eating, possession-driving, physically able to match up to anybody, plays against toughest players, etc.

I'm not dismissing him out of hand just because he isn't a complete Pronger clone.

I suspect there are plenty of tix to tomorrow's game between Union and Minn available, because the ND and BC folks will likely have bailed and be selling on line or have sold to scalpers on their way out last night. Gost is special to watch (and is the other key Union defenseman, Bodie, who is probably not fast enough to overcome his lack of size in the NHL). It might be worth going down, even to pick up something in the parking lot (there were plenty of seats available from scalpers yesterday and a lot of empty seats in the building--thank you NCAA for your ridiculous early-on pricing).

The thing I find off-putting about Byfuglien is what he may cost in a trade.

This is all.

My issue is paying MacDonald $4mm or $5mm regardless what they traded to get him. I don't have an issue with the trade for the guy, but that doesn't mean they should run out and give him a significant overpayment because they traded a 2nd rounder for him.

I agree wholeheartedly about overpaying in terms of assets for Byfuglien or really anyone. My issue is more with this insistence that MacDonald is some kind of cornerstone piece. He's a 4/5 guy. Does some things well, has trouble with others.

I'm fine with adding Jagr as a UFA. Wouldn't even think twice about it.
- Jsaquella

Paying MacDonald between 4 and 5M is not an overpayment. It's what a quality free agent defenseman is going to cost.
Seems to be some confusion here. Who exactly has labeled MacDonald a cornerstone or anything more then what he is? The answer is nobody. But what MacDonald is, is a solid all around top 4 NHL defenseman, who is still fairly young, and who as an addition, has upgraded this team. And is a better all around defenseman then Byfuglien is.
So if the comparison is paying what they had to acquire MacDonald, coupled with his demands to re-sign him. Versus trading a significant asset for Byfuglien, and paying him what he's already signed for. Well that's an easy call to make.

And in conclusion, to present the case between the two players as just about salary, isn't the reality of the situation.

And if you can't come to an agreement, you walk away. It's about keeping options open. If you limit yourself to paying Andrew MacDonald $5mm a year for 4 years, then you miss an opportunity to perhaps get a better player.
- Jsaquella

No doubt, always keep your options open. I'd never argue against that.

My issue is paying MacDonald $4mm or $5mm regardless what they traded to get him. I don't have an issue with the trade for the guy, but that doesn't mean they should run out and give him a significant overpayment because they traded a 2nd rounder for him.

I agree wholeheartedly about overpaying in terms of assets for Byfuglien or really anyone. My issue is more with this insistence that MacDonald is some kind of cornerstone piece. He's a 4/5 guy. Does some things well, has trouble with others.

I'm fine with adding Jagr as a UFA. Wouldn't even think twice about it.
- Jsaquella

I think it would be an attractive place to Jagr. An organization he knows and likes, line mates he knows and likes, he'll get top line ice time while playing with a top 5 center and its a playoff team.

I'm not married to bringing back MacDonald either. I just don't think they can come back with this current group minus MacDonald and think they're going to be better. If Mac is holding out for a huge deal, you might as well take a run at Niskanen.

I'm not totally sold on Boyle taking a 1 year deal. I see him wanting multiple years. Not sure if I want two 35+ guys on multi-year deals. (3 including Pronger)

And if you can't come to an agreement, you walk away. It's about keeping options open. If you limit yourself to paying Andrew MacDonald $5mm a year for 4 years, then you miss an opportunity to perhaps get a better player.
- Jsaquella

I'm open to getting a better player. But that's not Byfuglien.

Nobody wants to pay out the nose for Byfuglien... we've all made that clear.

I'd be more than happy to give up the Flyers' equivalent of Stajan/Hagman/Aulie for him, if Chevyldayoff was in a panic like Sutter was back in '10, though.

He fits a lot of the needs this team has that guys like Streit and AMac can only try to fill... big-minute eating, possession-driving, physically able to match up to anybody, plays against toughest players, etc.

I'm not dismissing him out of hand just because he isn't a complete Pronger clone.
- Tomahawk

Byfuglien does not fill the need and being able to play against top lines night in a night out. He's not that good defensively.

A team full of puck moving possession driving defenseman that aren't that good defensively, is a losing team.

I'm fine with adding Jagr as a UFA. Wouldn't even think twice about it.
- Jsaquella

oh god yes please oh please

I'm open to getting a better player. But that's not Byfuglien.
- MJL

I don't really like Byfuglien that much, but he's a better overall player than MacDonald.

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oh god yes please oh please
- BulliesPhan87

Shouldn't have ever let him go