Did the early crosscheck to Giroux impact him the rest of the game?
- funmaster18

I think it did, but what do I know

The Flyers dmen have their limitations for sure. However it is up to the forwards to help out with this which they can do in 2 ways:

1. Shorten the gaps, come back deep and take some pressure off the D

2. Establish the forecheck, put pressure on the Rangers and play more of the Game in THEIR zone.

The Flyers have played better against and beaten better teams than the NY Rangers this season. They need to stop reacting to what the Rags do and start forcing NY to react and adjust to what the Flyers do!
- BiggE

Why is it that Coburn, Timonen, and MacDonald dont really have issues with the forwards. The bigger problem is that anytime the puck is near Grossmann, its pretty much a failed clear, and any time its near Schenn he is trying to throw it behind the net to his other d-man..

I think it did, but what do I know
- Giroux_Is_God

Id like to hope it did.

Grossmann was not part of the problem in this game. He played well, apart from one bad giveaway (which didn't end up being costly). He was stapling Rangers to the walls and giving Flyers forwards plenty of time to dig pucks loose -- alas, they lost most of those battles. That's something about his role the Corsi crowd doesn't always grasp.
- bmeltzer

Hsi Corsi was fine last night, I'm not basing it on that. He's playing the puck like it's a live grenade.

Playing him more than Kimmo and Coburn was a clear sign Berube lost the plot.

Hsi Corsi was fine last night, I'm not basing it on that. He's playing the puck like it's a live grenade.

Playing him more than Kimmo and Coburn was a clear sign Berube lost the plot.
- Feanor

Exactly..

He looks like he is afraid to even touch it. Hell on more than one occasion he actually missed a pass. The puck sat there and his stick went forward.

He was fine, apart from one turnover. You have to have somewhere to go with it. That was a problem for all the Flyers' D tonight. The NY forecheckers got on them fast.
- bmeltzer

The problem is the lack of the speed.

Guys like Grossmann and Schenn don't have the foot speed to get to the puck quickly and move it out of the corner. This allows the forecheckers more time to do their work and retrieve the puck.

But there must be support from the forwards against this forecheck. They need to be in proper position to give the defenseman a decent outlet attempt.

I missed the game because of work last night, and I guess it was a good thing. No shots, poor coverage, poor puck pursuit, penalties, and no one going to the net. Hmmm...makes you wonder where the LEADERSHIP was. Anyway, they had better even the series next game, or it's going to be another GOLF SHATTERING summer.

The problem is the lack of the speed.

Guys like Grossmann and Schenn don't have the foot speed to get to the puck quickly and move it out of the corner. This allows the forecheckers more time to do their work and retrieve the puck.

But there must be support from the forwards against this forecheck. They need to be in proper position to give the defenseman a decent outlet attempt.
- bradleyc4

Bu they are there... its just that these guys are so freakin slow with the puck.. Coburn and Timonen rarely have that issue. MacDonald was applauded for his ability to quickly get the puck out.. he has no issues.

Grossmann and Schenn, like you said, are too slow. They get to the puck slowly, they turn slowly, and almost every time they just turn the puck back around the boards.. it kills any flow, and it also allows for the Rags (Devils, Bruins, or any other team that forechecks aggressively) to get in on them.


Even when they have time they fail to clear the puck out of the zone

Again- this is not to take away from how astonishingly inept they were last night, but we also should notice there were a lot of nerves happening in this game.

We had Raffl who's never played in the playoffs. Akeson in his 3rd game in the NHL, Luke Schenn has never played in the playoffs (I think), the last time Simmer played in the playoffs, he wasn't nearly as key to the team as he is now....to boot, it was our head coach's first playoff game, too.

We had guys holding the sticks too tightly all over the place. We had players that honestly looked nervous about forechecking for fear of getting caught....

Game 1 happened. It's over. But use that as motivation to up the tempo, and to up the game. It's certainly fair to say the Rangers out everything'd them. This game 2 is incredibly important and now, in a way, the Flyers know what "the bar" is, i.e. they know how hard they need to play to beat the Rangers.

Winning on Easter would be huge. Huge because it would obviously knot up the series, but the boys "proving" that they can beat that team in MSG is the best thing that can happen for their psyche. We all say "it's the playoffs and anything can happen" and I truly believe that, but we know what it's like to see a team get inside the head of another team- playoffs or not. Hopefully they can beat them and improve their psyche a little bit.

Exactly..

He looks like he is afraid to even touch it. Hell on more than one occasion he actually missed a pass. The puck sat there and his stick went forward.
- jak521

I would be ok with playing Gill for Grossmann.

Gil has batted 1.000 this year in terms of overall effectiveness in his role. He's stepped in and honestly has been good in every game he's played him.

Roll him out there. Why not.

Bu they are there... its just that these guys are so freakin slow with the puck.. Coburn and Timonen rarely have that issue. MacDonald was applauded for his ability to quickly get the puck out.. he has no issues.

Grossmann and Schenn, like you said, are too slow. They get to the puck slowly, they turn slowly, and almost every time they just turn the puck back around the boards.. it kills any flow, and it also allows for the Rags (Devils, Bruins, or any other team that forechecks aggressively) to get in on them.


Even when they have time they fail to clear the puck out of the zone
- jak521

Wrapping the puck around the net and up the boards isn't a bad play, but there should be a winger below the hash mark to accept that pass (or at least try to win a puck battle vs. their pinching defenseman).

I would be ok with playing Gill for Grossmann.

Gil has batted 1.000 this year in terms of overall effectiveness in his role. He's stepped in and honestly has been good in every game he's played him.

Roll him out there. Why not.
- Giroux_Is_God

Gus would be the better option.

But they're not benching Grossmann. He has value, especially on the PK.

Wrapping the puck around the net and up the boards isn't a bad play, but there should be a winger below the hash mark to accept that pass (or at least try to win a puck battle vs. their pinching defenseman).
- bradleyc4

Im not saying its a bad move, sometimes you need to use it as an outlet... But it shouldnt be your only move. That is almost always a D to D pass for the Flyers.


I think the problem is with how long it takes for those guys to make a play... the forwards are a step ahead.. How do you fix it? Have your forwards sit deeper, but then you have all kinds of congestion in the 1st third of the ice.

Gus would be the better option.

But they're not benching Grossmann. He has value, especially on the PK.
- bradleyc4

Is this sarcasm?


Grossmann has pros and cons.. Im just not sure a team like the Rags are his best match up.

Im not saying its a bad move, sometimes you need to use it as an outlet... But it shouldnt be your only move. That is almost always a D to D pass for the Flyers.


I think the problem is with how long it takes for those guys to make a play... the forwards are a step ahead.. How do you fix it? Have your forwards sit deeper, but then you have all kinds of congestion in the 1st third of the ice.
- jak521

Agreed, the D-to-D pass should be a 2nd option. There's probably blame to go around for everyone, but I think its all set in motion by 8 and 22 not being able to get to pucks quickly.

The forwards do need to play deeper. The wings should sag below the hash marks and the center should be close to the goaltender to help support the defenseman -- either has a quick passing option, or to help retrieve the puck or take a body if the defenseman loses the battle.

Is this sarcasm?


Grossmann has pros and cons.. Im just not sure a team like the Rags are his best match up.
- jak521

It's not a good match-up for him. I'm just saying that the Flyers won't bench him. They agree with Bill, MJL and others that he's more valuable than you and I see him as.

The Flyers generated strong back pressure and good puck support for most of the game. Although they were getting outshot, most of New York's attempts were kept to the perimeter.
- bmeltzer

Bill, not sure we were watching the same game... Rangers owned the scoring area in front of the net at both ends of the ice. The EV shot chart kind of says it all:

Agreed, the D-to-D pass should be a 2nd option. There's probably blame to go around for everyone, but I think its all set in motion by 8 and 22 not being able to get to pucks quickly.

The forwards do need to play deeper. The wings should sag below the hash marks and the center should be close to the goaltender to help support the defenseman -- either has a quick passing option, or to help retrieve the puck or take a body if the defenseman loses the battle.
- bradleyc4

I totally agree with you.. I think the forwards need to slow their breakout down when those two are on the ice. They get way to far down while the other two and still trying to figure out which way to turn.


I think Berube could do a bit of a better job as well.. Akeson gets a 4 minute penalty.. yet still gets two minutes of EV TOI more than Vinny (:41 EV TOI) in the third?

Grossmann 2nd on the team in EV TOI? Adam Hall with more EV TOI than Wayne Simmonds?

Its no freakin wonder we had 6 shots in the game.



NOTE: Last night really frustrated me, and the girl at the front desk at work is really lazy so I had to have a talk with her... Not a good morning.

Bill, not sure we were watching the same game... Rangers owned the scoring area in front of the net at both ends of the ice. The EV shot chart kind of says it all:



- Tomahawk

I agree.. Hell all of their goals came from within 5-20 feet, while the Flyers lone goal was a 50 footer.

The Flyers need to figure out some way to generate speed coming out of their own zone. I really think they need to have a forward dip back and help the defense carry the puck up ice. Our defense isn't skilled enough to consistently make two line outlet passes.

The third period was a poop show and they let that first PP goal drag them down. It was a bad bounce and ended up right on Richard's stick. poop happens. The 2nd PP goal was atrocious coverage and shouldn't have happened.

As bad as the team looked last night, I don't think they're that far away. They were able to generate forecheck pressure when they hit the blue line with speed. Thats something the Flyers weren't able to do at al against the Rangers at MSG for the past few years. If they can figure out a way to navigate the neutral zone and hit the blue line with speed, they are every bit capable of beating the Rangers.

My final point is about the minutes allocation. I thought Grossmann was fine, but Berube needs to ride his best players. In away games, G and Coburn need to be logging heavy minutes. Coburn should be over 25 minutes every night. He's a big guy with a fluid skating stride in his prime. I've seen him do it before under Stevens and Lavi. The big guy can handle it.

One shot on goal in the third period?
Non-competitive. Generated zero offense. Carbon copy of the same bullpoop at MSG the last 3 years. Season is on the line Sunday.
- PLindbergh31

hard to get a shot on net, when you're in the box for 10 minutes killing bad penalties. it's pathetic they can't find a way to play a better game against that team in that building. it's not like they're the 76 habs for (frank)'s sake.

I totally agree with you.. I think the forwards need to slow their breakout down when those two are on the ice. They get way to far down while the other two and still trying to figure out which way to turn.


I think Berube could do a bit of a better job as well.. Akeson gets a 4 minute penalty.. yet still gets two minutes of EV TOI more than Vinny (:41 EV TOI) in the third?

Grossmann 2nd on the team in EV TOI? Adam Hall with more EV TOI than Wayne Simmonds?

Its no freakin wonder we had 6 shots in the game.



NOTE: Last night really frustrated me, and the girl at the front desk at work is really lazy so I had to have a talk with her... Not a good morning.
- jak521

The problem is, the Flyers aren't a good even-strength team. When they win, it's mostly because of special teams. One PP for and 6 against is disastrous for them.

After sleeping on it my opinion hasn't changed that was one awful game by the Flyers and one great one by the Rags. The Rags owned the Flyers in every way last night. If I wanted to show someone how not to play a playoff game I'd show them last night's game.

I think Chief has done well, but I question why he played Akeson. Not just because of the awful 4 minute penalty, but more because his lack of time playing with the team. Not saying McGinn in much better, but at least he had some time with the time.

I've said it several times before, this years team is a tale of two teams. One that sucks, does not compete and is awful to watch. The other competes, is up on their feet, and keeps their skates moving, they are fun to watch. Sadly the wrong team showed up. I put that on G, as captain he needs to set the tone and when needed fire up the troops.

Overall just snow embarrassment on the ice last night.

mood?
- Streit2ThePoint

annoyed. the game unfolded exactly as i suspected it would. seemed unprepared to play. were dominated through much of the game, and played worse as it went along, imploding in the 3rd when tied at 1. generating zero offense on the mattress king. i'm sick of it.

Id like to hope it did.
- jak521

I was hoping your explanation was right and they weren't even in the building.