No doubt. I was surprised to see the Flyers outshot and won quite a few more faceoffs. If the PP didn't suck the life out of everything like some sad vampire, that game is maybe a lot more competitive than it seemed.
- wolfhounds

Streit needs to replace Kimmo on PP unit #1 at this point.

This whole thing started because I said I would rather have Niskanen at fair market value than MacDonald at fair market value.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's always you...

You feeling up to the bar tomorrow night?

I know, but over the last few years, they've gotten better.

You can't just discount guys like Ghost, Hagg and Vasiliev. They may never develop into anything, but they do hold value. Ghost could be a large piece in a deal for a top pairing dman.
- PhillySportsGuy

No question about it! The problem is that they neglected the D position draftwise for a long time and just expected top tier free agents to make it to free agency or be available by trade. Teams started extending their pending FA Dmen and Homer was left holding the bag, hence the despiration attempts at Weber/Suter. He loves his centers but here are some Dmen left on the table when centers were selected:

Couturier (Hamilton available)
Laughton (Maata available)
Richards (Weber available in the 2nd round)

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have picked any of those guys or that several other teams didn't also overlook some of these gems, but through it all, they have had too many C and not enough D and it has come back to roost!

Imagine how good that draft could have been. That draft could have produced our top line.

Edit: Of all the times we condemn the Flyers for going after hulking forwards, they couldn't take Lucic.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's assuming they developed here the way they did with the team's who took them. I have no faith in the Flyers developing decent dmen. Not because of the picks, but because I don't think they have the staff to properly train and motivate a young draft pick.

Detroit is able to hit gold in the draft because they do a better job molding their picks.

Draft picks are like clay. Up to the staff to mold that clay into something. The Flyers are too mindless in their approach. They try to make players without the skill sets to be a certain type of player and force him to be that instead of letting him discover what he truly is.

Yea they've done well at Center. But that's it. The last winger we developed was Gagne, and he was a center!

Are we really going to keep doing this with Amac and Niskanen. Do we look at niskanen and think his numbers could be influeced a little by playing PP with Crosby and malkin. Who knows if Niskanen signs for 6 million like everyone thinks. If he hits the open market there will be bidding so what if 6 goes to 6.5 to 7. Then if he doesn't live up to those previous numbers you all claim homer was moron for the signing. Lets let this series pay out and then worry about the D. This Franchise has shown the won't sit around. They have corrected a flaw and tried to draft some d. We don't know what happens till the offseason is here. Things change and sometimes guys become available who you didn't think were because of other team issues. BUt please lets stop the debate of Niskanen and Amac. Both are two different types of players so comparing is not needed.

I'd rather the Flyers sign dmen who can play our system. Whatever that may be.

Don't sign the best player if they don't play our system.

That's assuming they developed here the way they did with the team's who took them. I have no faith in the Flyers developing decent dmen. Not because of the picks, but because I don't think they have the staff to properly train and motivate a young draft pick.

Detroit is able to hit gold in the draft because they do a better job molding their picks.

Draft picks are like clay. Up to the staff to mold that clay into something. The Flyers are too mindless in their approach. They try to make players without the skill sets to be a certain type of player and force him to be that instead of letting him discover what he truly is.

Yea they've done well at Center. But that's it. The last winger we developed was Gagne, and he was a center!
- Flyersgod

Good point as their spotty history extends to LW/RW.

It's always you...

You feeling up to the bar tomorrow night?
- tangent_man

YES

No idea why you guys are arguing about defensemen when the forwards have clearly dropped the ball so far this series.

The Flyers have 10 goals in 5 games. MacDonald has 2 points, a goal and an assist, 1 assist less than Giroux. Streit has a goal and Schenn has a goal. 7 goals over 5 games from our forwards.

Voracek has 2 goals. 5 goals over 5 games from the rest of the forwards. And we're talking about MacDonald, the time on ice leader for the Flyers, as if he is somehow not getting the job done.


- wolfhounds

I'm completely with you. Sorry about the sordid company.

I will add that Giroux has taken quite the playoff step down this season. I hope it's an aberration. Every top forward in the NHL is playing against top teams. Chicago is playing St Louis, Boston is playing Detroit. You need your best forward to rise above. Voracek isn't our best forward but he's playing head and shoulders above everyone else this post season. He's the only forward other than a brief glimpse of Hartnell in game one and Simmonds in game 2 that's really shown up.

YES
- PhillySportsGuy

There's a bar?

Are we really going to keep doing this with Amac and Niskanen. Do we look at niskanen and think his numbers could be influeced a little by playing PP with Crosby and malkin. Who knows if Niskanen signs for 6 million like everyone thinks. If he hits the open market there will be bidding so what if 6 goes to 6.5 to 7. Then if he doesn't live up to those previous numbers you all claim homer was moron for the signing. Lets let this series pay out and then worry about the D. This Franchise has shown the won't sit around. They have corrected a flaw and tried to draft some d. We don't know what happens till the offseason is here. Things change and sometimes guys become available who you didn't think were because of other team issues. BUt please lets stop the debate of Niskanen and Amac. Both are two different types of players so comparing is not needed.
- J35Bacher

That's crazy talk.

Yeah, I'm more worried about tomorrow night than the offseason. And I seriously doubt anything is different this series with Niskanen on the blueline instead of AMac because our offense isn't getting it done.

No question about it! The problem is that they neglected the D position draftwise for a long time and just expected top tier free agents to make it to free agency or be available by trade. Teams started extending their pending FA Dmen and Homer was left holding the bag, hence the despiration attempts at Weber/Suter. He loves his centers but here are some Dmen left on the table when centers were selected:

Couturier (Hamilton available)
Laughton (Maata available)
Richards (Weber available in the 2nd round)

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have picked any of those guys or that several other teams didn't also overlook some of these gems, but through it all, they have had too many C and not enough D and it has come back to roost!
- BOSS_TWEED

Yeah. Thats always been their problem. They've stockpiled a decent collection now. I just think we need to face the fact that it's going to require patience.

There's a bar?
- mayorofangrytown

I'm completely with you. Sorry about the sordid company.

I will add that Giroux has taken quite the playoff step down this season. I hope it's an aberration. Every top forward in the NHL is playing against top teams. Chicago is playing St Louis, Boston is playing Detroit. You need your best forward to rise above. Voracek isn't our best forward but he's playing head and shoulders above everyone else this post season. He's the only forward other than a brief glimpse of Hartnell in game one and Simmonds in game 2 that's really shown up.
- mayorofangrytown

Sordid is how I roll.

And I agree. We need to clone Jake!

Good point as their spotty history extends to LW/RW.
- BOSS_TWEED

Hartnell (Trade)/ Giroux (drafted)/ Voracek (Trade)
Simmonds (Trade)/ Schenn (Trade)/ Raffl (Undrafted FA)
Akeson (Undrafted FA)/ Coots (drafted)/ Read (Undrafted FA)
Rinaldo (drafted)/ Hall (waivers?)/ VL (FA)

Coburn (Trade)/ Timonen (Trade)
Streit (FA)/ Grossman (Trade)
Schenn (Trade)/ Amac (Trade)

Mason (Trade)
Emery (FA)

2 players on the entire team that were drafted by the Flyers. They have more undrafted players than drafted players.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Flyers Chase Game and Series to the Cliff
- bmeltzer

the flyers are beating themselves because they refuse to play differently. they eventually make mistakes and the rangers cash in. their forwards have been a virtual no-show except for voracek and to a lesser degree akeson. it's not enough. lundquist has been a virtual non-factor.

even if the flyers win tomorrow, which they absolutely can, there's little reason to believe they'll follow up with enough to win at msg, where they're now 1-10 in they're last 11.

Hartnell (Trade)/ Giroux (drafted)/ Voracek (Trade)
Simmonds (Trade)/ Schenn (Trade)/ Raffl (Undrafted FA)
Akeson (Undrafted FA)/ Coots (drafted)/ Read (Undrafted FA)
Rinaldo (drafted)/ Hall (waivers?)/ VL (FA)

Coburn (Trade)/ Timonen (Trade)
Streit (FA)/ Grossman (Trade)
Schenn (Trade)/ Amac (Trade)

Mason (Trade)
Emery (FA)

2 players on the entire team that were drafted by the Flyers. They have more undrafted players than drafted players.
- Flyersgod

How many of those were bad moves though?

g should have slam dunked that 2 on 1 rush into the open net in the beginning of the game, perfect pass from jv...after the 2 useless pp tries I just knew ny would score a garbage goal...same $hit for years now, I do think we win Tuesday, but lose game 7 in ny
- mydoglicks

Same poop for years

the flyers are beating themselves because they refuse to play differently. they eventually make mistakes and the rangers cash in. their forwards have been a virtual no-show except for voracek and to a lesser degree akeson. it's not enough. lundquist has been a virtual non-factor.

even if the flyers win tomorrow, which they absolutely can, there's little reason to believe they'll follow up with enough to win at msg, where they're now 1-10 in they're last 11.
- hammarby31

It's like a series where nothing at all has happened. I don't know how else to describe it. No passion.

How many of those were bad moves though?
- PhillySportsGuy

And apparently we had the assets to acquire the players we needed via trade.

Same poop for years
- wilsonecho91

40 years, but who's counting

There's a bar?
- mayorofangrytown

apparently there's a bar

Would anyone go for this deal? Yes it may sound crazy but please try to think about it. And I am not sure of money so maybe someone can check it out. Might have to make a secondary move to clear space.

To Washington:
B.Schenn
Read
L.Schenn
1st 2014
2nd 2015

To Philly:
M.Green
A.Ovechkin(no-trade doesn't kick in till 07/01/2014)

This would give a solid sniper for Giroux so he doesn't have to be completely relied on for all scoring. Also i would even things out with vinny playing center on the second line and and coots to still be on the third. Also allows raffle to playin wing with coots and maybe laughton for a solid shutdown line or laugton plays on the fourth line. hall can stay cheap for a fourth lin center. Green can be a solid offensive d man if healthy. And before you ask why would washington do this my reasoning is because they want a change in dynamics and also really want to move that green contract. With one year left it woulnd't be that bad for flyers and green can play limit 3rd pairing minutes and bring a cannnon to the pp

apparently there's a bar
- -davies-

Oh, there's a bar.

Would anyone go for this deal? Yes it may sound crazy but please try to think about it. And I am not sure of money so maybe someone can check it out. Might have to make a secondary move to clear space.

To Washington:
B.Schenn
Read
L.Schenn
1st 2014
2nd 2015

To Philly:
M.Green
A.Ovechkin(no-trade doesn't kick in till 07/01/2014)

This would give a solid sniper for Giroux so he doesn't have to be completely relied on for all scoring. Also i would even things out with vinny playing center on the second line and and coots to still be on the third. Also allows raffle to playin wing with coots and maybe laughton for a solid shutdown line or laugton plays on the fourth line. hall can stay cheap for a fourth lin center. Green can be a solid offensive d man if healthy. And before you ask why would washington do this my reasoning is because they want a change in dynamics and also really want to move that green contract. With one year left it woulnd't be that bad for flyers and green can play limit 3rd pairing minutes and bring a cannnon to the pp
- J35Bacher

how well have those two worked for washington?