Ill miss old yeller too travis
- JoeRussomanno

I know his time is pretty much up, I just don't share the cynicism over his aging nor the outrage over "omg six million dollars" that's been voiced this year (not pointing at any one poster in particular here). They made the right choice bringing him back on a short term commitment, Kimmo isn't to blame for the lack of other options.

Luke Schenn had a great season last year with Timonen. He played well with Gus too. Schenn was always saddled with Mez this season. He needed a competent partner.

I happen to like Niskanen a lot. He's helped keep the Pens D together all season. They had a ton of injuries to guys like Martin, Orpik and Letang. He plays mostly with Maata so it's not like he's reaping the benefits of playing with a guy like Paul Martin.

He was inconsistent his entire career. He's always displayed promise, but just couldn't put it all together. It appears he's put it all together now.

I don't think he's a true #1dman, but he would help this team a lot more than MacDonald. MacDonald allows zone entries at a higher rate than any other Flyers defensive. By a wide margin as well. He concedes entries way too easily.
- PhillySportsGuy

MacDonald was brought here for different reasons than Niskanen would potentially be. Two completely different players. I dont think its a coincidence that the PK has been GREAT since he came here. He is also an intelligent player IMO. He makes smart, simple plays and gets the puck out of the zone efficiently. If we need OFF on the backend Niskanen could be an option.... but not at 6 MILL!!! Give me a break.

I know his time is pretty much up, I just don't share the cynicism over his aging nor the outrage over "omg six million dollars" that's been voiced this year (not pointing at any one poster in particular here). They made the right choice bringing him back on a short term commitment, Kimmo isn't to blame for the lack of other options.
- BulliesPhan87

Cool beans

I dont think its a coincidence that the PK has been GREAT since he came here.
- GOA88

AMac wasn't even killing penalties when he first got here... and the PK was already great before he arrived.

A function of a ridiculous amount of minutes and prime PP-time... control for TOI by using P/60:

AMac
12/13 0.32
13/14 0.42

Butler
12/13 0.64
13/14 0.58
- Tomahawk

Your numbers for MacDonald are wrong. His P/60 was 0.83 this season and 0.64 last season.

http://www.sportingcharts...-per-60-min-leaders/2013/

It's not fair to take MacDonald's powerplay points out just because Butler is not good enough offensively to get any PP time, not even for a crappy Calgary team.

But MacDonald is?

Niskanen-Coburn would be a fine top pairing. They wouldn't be the best, but they could hold things together.
- PhillySportsGuy

I didnt say he was the answer, but he is part of the solution for retooling the back-end. Now is the time to invest that money in a #1 D-man if at all possible. No more temporary plugs until we find the next Pronger.

AMac wasn't even killing penalties when he first got here... and the PK was already great before he arrived.
- Tomahawk

He is has been for quite some time, no? PK has gotten better.

I didnt say he was the answer, but he is part of the solution for retooling the back-end. Now is the time to invest that money in a #1 D-man if at all possible. No more temporary plugs until we find the next Pronger.
- GOA88

It's very hard to just use money or even trades to get a true #1. The best best is to draft well and be patient.

Amac and schenn as second pair?
- JoeRussomanno

I was hoping the team would look to move VL and Grossmann/L. Schenn this offseason. Then go after Jagr and Niskanen.

Hartnell-G-Jagr
Akeson-Schenn-Voracek
Read-Couts-Simmonds
Rinaldo-Laughton-Raffl

Niskanen-Coburn
Schenn-Timo(pray he signs for a reasonable number)
Streit-Gus/Alt/FA

Your numbers for MacDonald are wrong. His P/60 was 0.83 this season and 0.64 last season.

http://www.sportingcharts...-per-60-min-leaders/2013/

It's not fair to take MacDonald's powerplay points out just because Butler is not good enough offensively to get any PP time, not even for a crappy Calgary team.
- Feanor

Think that chart is either wrong or out-dated:

http://www.extraskater.co...ris-butler#standard-rates
http://www.extraskater.co...-macdonald#standard-rates


The numbers I listed did include PP-minutes. If you want to control for EV only, AMac's P/60 actually shoots up, but is still shy of Butler by a bit.

The Flyers have been a good drafting team and Homer has won most of his trades. His signings have been bad though. Can you imagine this team if they didn't have the compliance buyouts? He moves two bad contracts out and more bad contracts in. It's like he has no hindsight in any of these deals.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed

The Lacavalier signing is a perfect example. They really didn't need a center, but Holmgren just couldn't pass up a shiny new toy. They would have been much better off both on the ice and in relation to the cap had they signed Jagr for one year at 4.5 million instead. They actually could have USED another skilled winger.

The Streit signing doesn't bother as much, they needed to add more skill on D and with Timonen likely gone, he will be the QB on the top PP unit next year. Unlike some, I don't see Ghost making an impact, before 15-16. At that point Streit has 2 years left and they can either buy him out or trade him and eat a percentage of his deal. Even if they have to eat half the cap hit for the last 2 years, that plus Ghost ELC hit will still be less than Streit's full hit for those 2 seasons.

The AMac deal may well have been a necessary evil, especially with Timonen really starting to look done. I'd rather have him than a brittle aging vet like Boyle or Markov and I think the cost for the few quality free agent dmen out there will be even more than we are guessing. Some GM is going to offer Stralman 6 years and 30-35 million and another will offer Niskanen at least 6 years and 42+ million. It really is a sellers market when it comes to D.

I didnt say he was the answer, but he is part of the solution for retooling the back-end. Now is the time to invest that money in a #1 D-man if at all possible. No more temporary plugs until we find the next Pronger.
- GOA88

Theres 3 ways to get the next pronger without dismantling the team which in amd of itself would not be a complete bad idea but i dont want a 5 year rebuild when you have players who havent even hit theor prime. So here goes:trade giroux which will get overturned for public safety reasons when all the orange koolaid drinkers bodies pile up at the morgue from suicide, draft one and develop him, or dumb luck that another gm is as dumb/drunk as homer.

Regardless, what is done is done. A Mac for the next 5 years whether us fans like it or not. Lets talk about Game 7, because I believe thats what is coming. Mason will need to play like game 4 for us to win this series. Which isnt fair on him IMO. No goal support

I didnt say he was the answer, but he is part of the solution for retooling the back-end. Now is the time to invest that money in a #1 D-man if at all possible. No more temporary plugs until we find the next Pronger.
- GOA88

So MacDonald is part of the solution but Niskanen wouldn't be? A better player for $1.5M more

24 points in his last 126 games. Career PPG of 0.215.

MacDonald 40 points in his last 130 games. Career PPG of 0.296.
- Feanor

MacDonald is a steadier dman and a much better shot blocker. There is more to D than just PPG

But MacDonald is?

Niskanen-Coburn would be a fine top pairing. They wouldn't be the best, but they could hold things together.
- PhillySportsGuy

I like that but not if the cost for Niskanen is north of 7 million.

Agreed

The Lacavalier signing is a perfect example. They really didn't need a center, but Holmgren just couldn't pass up a shiny new toy. They would have been much better off both on the ice and in relation to the cap had they signed Jagr for one year at 4.5 million instead. They actually could have USED another skilled winger.

The Streit signing doesn't bother as much, they needed to add more skill on D and with Timonen likely gone, he will be the QB on the top PP unit next year. Unlike some, I don't see Ghost making an impact, before 15-16. At that point Streit has 2 years left and they can either buy him out or trade him and eat a percentage of his deal. Even if they have to eat half the cap hit for the last 2 years, that plus Ghost ELC hit will still be less than Streit's full hit for those 2 seasons.

The AMac deal may well have been a necessary evil, especially with Timonen really starting to look done. I'd rather have him than a brittle aging vet like Boyle or Markov and I think the cost for the few quality free agent dmen out there will be even more than we are guessing. Some GM is going to offer Stralman 6 years and 30-35 million and another will offer Niskanen at least 6 years and 42+ million. It really is a sellers market when it comes to D.
- BiggE

I just don't view MacDonald as highly as other people. I see him as a #4 defenseman. Next season, he may be our #2 defenseman. We'll be doing the exact same thing the Islanders did to him.

Think that chart is either wrong or out-dated:
- Tomahawk

No it isn't.

AMac played 1,601:34 minutes for the Islanders and 417:56 minutes for us. A total of 2019.5 minutes or 33.66 hours. He scored 28 points.

28 / 33.66 = 0.83 P/60.

Did you even look at your own links? It also has Mac's P/60 as 0.83.

The 0.32 and 0.42 figures you listed for him as P/60 are actually his secondary assists per 60 minutes numbers.

I like that but not if the cost for Niskanen is north of 7 million.
- BiggE

I don't think it will be that high.

I just think people view Niskanen as some one year wonder. Thats not really the case. He's always had talent. Defenseman take a long time to put it all together. He's just been inconsistent.

Think we're seeing the end of the Grossmann era?
- BulliesPhan87

Probably not.

So MacDonald is part of the solution but Niskanen wouldn't be? A better player for $1.5M more
- PhillySportsGuy

I still think they can get Niskanen and keep AMac as long as they can do the following:
1. Don't re-sign Timonen
2. Trade Grossmann for whatever pick you can get for him
3. Trade VL for whatever pick you can get for him, and eat 20% of the contract and cap hit.
4. Fill holes with kids and low cost vets wherever possible and reasonable

Lineup
Hartnell-G-Voracek
Akeson-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Raffl
UFA Vet-Laughton-Rinaldo
spare: Rosehill or McGinn
D
Niskanen-Coburn
AMac-Schenn
Streit-Alt
Spare: UFA Journeyman or Lauridsen
G
Mason
UFA vet

I think the above is financially doable

I don't think it will be that high.

I just think people view Niskanen as some one year wonder. Thats not really the case. He's always had talent. Defenseman take a long time to put it all together. He's just been inconsistent.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed, I'm just afraid that some GM, desperate for D, will overspend. And no, I don't mean Holmgren, he's not the only GM to go apepoop on contracts

So MacDonald is part of the solution but Niskanen wouldn't be? A better player for $1.5M more
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, but you are missing the fact that Mac is already signed. Niskanen would be another hefty deal and that money should go to someone better than Niskanen.

No it isn't.

AMac played 1,601:34 minutes for the Islanders and 417:56 minutes for us. A total of 2019.5 minutes or 33.66 hours. He scored 28 points.

28 / 33.66 = 0.83 P/60.

Did you even look at your own links? It also has Mac's P/60 as 0.83.

2013-2014 Islanders, Flyers 82 0.12 0.71 0.83
- Feanor

ROFL, no idea what I did there. You're 100% right.

With that said, though, the difference isn't great. Both guys are around the same career P/60, even with AMac enjoying generally better teammates and more PP-time.

Theres 3 ways to get the next pronger without dismantling the team which in amd of itself would not be a complete bad idea but i dont want a 5 year rebuild when you have players who havent even hit theor prime. So here goes:trade giroux which will get overturned for public safety reasons when all the orange koolaid drinkers bodies pile up at the morgue from suicide, draft one and develop him, or dumb luck that another gm is as dumb/drunk as homer.
- JoeRussomanno

Trade Giroux? Really?