Why does everyone think StL would value Oshie more than Shattenkirk?

Defense is rarer in this league than a forward with size who scores 20G/60P a year.

Totally off base, Shattenkirk is way more valuable and they would likely not give him up for Spezza.

I hope they do, but its not likely.
- TommyDeVito

If you took the time to watch a game or two - or read any Blues thread - you would understand the importance of Oshie on this team. And how much Shattenkirk sucked badly during the playoffs.

I've been thinking for a while that Spezza could be a good fit for the Blues but forget Schwartz, Tarasenko and Oshie. It's gonna be a package of prospects/picks.

A man can dream, can't he?
- TommyDeVito

Sure.

If you took the time to watch a game or two - or read any Blues thread - you would understand the importance of Oshie on this team. And how much Shattenkirk sucked badly during the playoffs.

I've been thinking for a while that Spezza could be a good fit for the Blues but forget Schwartz, Tarasenko and Oshie. It's gonna be a package of prospects/picks.
- Not_Yan

I think everyone here, including myself, is looking for the EA Sports NHL 2014 deal for Spezza. With that said, moving Spezza for just "prospects" and "picks" would be the silliest thing for this franchise to do. We need players that can play now (one of the main arguments for keeping Spezza, but whatever...). Oshie is a fan favourite and Tarasenko is going to be a stud, so they are likely not moving. However, Schwartz is a guy I think they could part with, if in fact they want to bring in a big player.

All these trade proposals prove my point that St.Louis would be silly to trade for a big name player. They have an awesome core. Holding out for a free agent perhaps may be their best bet.

Again. Sens should be keeping Spezza.

A man can dream, can't he?
- TommyDeVito

i like how you the in the 3rd, like "yeah Oshie/Schwarz is a nice package, but i need a BIT more to convince me"

If Ottawa does move Spezza, it better be for a Dman.

Bringing in a forward makes no sense whatsoever. Our depth is at forward, our prospect depth is also at forward.

The Sens were 4th in the East in GF this season. Scoring is not the problem and won't be the problem next year.

We NEED a top 4 Dman who can play some decent mins against other team's best players.

We also NEED a top 4 Dman so guys like Cowen and Ceci can slot down a spot and develop properly.

If you took the time to watch a game or two - or read any Blues thread - you would understand the importance of Oshie on this team. And how much Shattenkirk sucked badly during the playoffs.

I've been thinking for a while that Spezza could be a good fit for the Blues but forget Schwartz, Tarasenko and Oshie. It's gonna be a package of prospects/picks.
- Not_Yan

I agree that deal is very, optimistic. However, I think they'll need some nhl ready defense coming back in the trade. They need to improve there.

i like how you the in the 3rd, like "yeah Oshie/Schwarz is a nice package, but i need a BIT more to convince me"
- DoubleDown

Throwing in a third round pick is hockeybuzz trade 101.

If Ottawa does move Spezza, it better be for a Dman.

Bringing in a forward makes no sense whatsoever. Our depth is at forward, our prospect depth is also at forward.

The Sens were 4th in the East in GF this season. Scoring is not the problem and won't be the problem next year.

We NEED a top 4 Dman who can play some decent mins against other team's best players.

We also NEED a top 4 Dman so guys like Cowen and Ceci can slot down a spot and develop properly.
- Charliebox

while I agree we need a solid top 4 D, we would also have to replace the offense from Spezza leaving, michalek most likely leaving and hemsky not staying either....

im still in the dont trade spezza camp though...but at this point I think he wants out unfortunately

im fairly certain though if Murray doesnt get what he wants in return spezza wont be moved.

I think everyone here, including myself, is looking for the EA Sports NHL 2014 deal for Spezza. With that said, moving Spezza for just "prospects" and "picks" would be the silliest thing for this franchise to do. We need players that can play now (one of the main arguments for keeping Spezza, but whatever...). Oshie is a fan favourite and Tarasenko is going to be a stud, so they are likely not moving. However, Schwartz is a guy I think they could part with, if in fact they want to bring in a big player.

All these trade proposals prove my point that St.Louis would be silly to trade for a big name player. They have an awesome core. Holding out for a free agent perhaps may be their best bet.

Again. Sens should be keeping Spezza.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I agree with pretty much everything here. Only thing that may force st louis' hand is the under achieving factor. A shake up may be coming after two straight identical playoff failures. They may start to get some San Jose comparisons soon. Or Sens, from many years back.

If Ottawa does move Spezza, it better be for a Dman.

Bringing in a forward makes no sense whatsoever. Our depth is at forward, our prospect depth is also at forward.

The Sens were 4th in the East in GF this season. Scoring is not the problem and won't be the problem next year.

We NEED a top 4 Dman who can play some decent mins against other team's best players.

We also NEED a top 4 Dman so guys like Cowen and Ceci can slot down a spot and develop properly.
- Charliebox

Moving Spezza and letting Michalek and Hemsky walk (a whole line from the back half of this season) takes a hit at our forward "depth". After Turris, Macarthur, and Ryan, there is a lot of uncertainty with the rest of our forwards. I think we also need d-men, but when you loose 3 NHL level forwards, your depth is going to take a hit.

This would be one of those deals where it would be silly to move Spezza. Boumeester isn't going to be signing a team friendly contract. One of the main reasons people want Spezza traded is because of his contract. Adding Boumeester just replaces that with a player of lesser value to the team.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

J Bo is already signed to a team friendly deal.. I am sure 'Ott' means Steve Ott

I agree with pretty much everything here. Only thing that may force st louis' hand is the under achieving factor. A shake up may be coming after two straight identical playoff failures. They may start to get some San Jose comparisons soon. Or Sens, from many years back.
- david22

If that happens and the Sens benefit, then that's great for us. I just think St.Louis should be smarter than that. They kind of got a raw deal getting matched up with a team, who in my mind, is going to win the Cup. You can't overreact too much after loosing to one of the best. It's sort of like the Toronto mentality. They loose to the 2nd best team in the NHL last year and took them to 7 games, but go out and sign Clarkson and trade for Bernier. Things that didn't help and perhaps even hurt them.

Bryan Murray has been wanting TJ Oshie for years. This could be the time, although, I'm pretty sure the Blues wouldn't trade him, even in a package.

I could see Berglund (resigned), Jaskin and a 2014 1st round pick coming back our way. Murray said at the deadline he wanted a 1st round pick this year, remember?

If that happens and the Sens benefit, then that's great for us. I just think St.Louis should be smarter than that. They kind of got a raw deal getting matched up with a team, who in my mind, is going to win the Cup. You can't overreact too much after loosing to one of the best. It's sort of like the Toronto mentality. They loose to the 2nd best team in the NHL last year and took them to 7 games, but go out and sign Clarkson and trade for Bernier. Things that didn't help and perhaps even hurt them.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Fair point. If they did make a trade I don't think we'd be seeing any of the core being traded. And that includes Oshie.

Moving Spezza and letting Michalek and Hemsky walk (a whole line from the back half of this season) takes a hit at our forward "depth". After Turris, Macarthur, and Ryan, there is a lot of uncertainty with the rest of our forwards. I think we also need d-men, but when you loose 3 NHL level forwards, your depth is going to take a hit.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Michalek was generally useless this season. In the same number of mins, I'm sure Stone can, at the very least, equal his offensive production.

Hemsky, we added at the end of the year and didn't have trouble scoring before he got here.

Spezza.. well of course that hurts, but if he goes, I don't see us getting back anyone as productive offensively.

I would rather focus on keeping pucks out of our net this summer and let our young core/upcoming prospects deal with the scoring void.

Moving Spezza and letting Michalek and Hemsky walk (a whole line from the back half of this season) takes a hit at our forward "depth". After Turris, Macarthur, and Ryan, there is a lot of uncertainty with the rest of our forwards. I think we also need d-men, but when you loose 3 NHL level forwards, your depth is going to take a hit.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i don't disagee with this....i think losing michalek is "whatever", that was a foregone conclusion, but losing spezz and hemsky (no matter what my view on teh situation) will hurt the offense.

that being said, if they move spezza, i think it's an acknowledgment by the organization that they need to take a step back, in order to take 3 steps forward in the future. meaning, they expect that our offense won't be as good, but at the same time, the extra minutes for guys like zibby and stone, will be beneficial for them, and the team long term.

i'm not convinced that, given top six minutes and top six linemates, zibby couldn't put up close to the same numbers spezza did THIS YEAR.

that being said, you ONLY move spezza if you get good young assets that help the team, if not now, then in the very near future.

Michalek was generally useless this season. In the same number of mins, I'm sure Stone can, at the very least, equal his offensive production.

Hemsky, we added at the end of the year and didn't have trouble scoring before he got here.

Spezza.. well of course that hurts, but if he goes, I don't see us getting back anyone as productive offensively.

I would rather focus on keeping pucks out of our net this summer and let our young core/upcoming prospects deal with the scoring void.
- Charliebox

i would be happy, assuming the entire "top line" is moved (with no top six players in exchange), with this top six.

macarthur - turris - stone
hoffman - zibby - ryan

(swap stone and ryan if you want, just felt this sort of evens the lines out a little)

i fully agree that they would score less, but i think when you tabulate how many goals they score, and subtract the number of goals they give up, it would be pretty damn close to what we had this year, we may even come out ahead.

i would be happy, assuming the entire "top line" is moved (with no top six players in exchange), with this top six.

macarthur - turris - stone
hoffman - zibby - ryan

(swap stone and ryan if you want, just felt this sort of evens the lines out a little)

i fully agree that they would score less, but i think when you tabulate how many goals they score, and subtract the number of goals they give up, it would be pretty damn close to what we had this year, we may even come out ahead.
- sensarmy_11

I want to go on record, that I like these two lines/collection of 6 forwards. I'm not sold on Hoffman, but he does have great moves and a killer shot. The other 5 are great.

However, we female doged and moaned all year about the ice time the likes of Greening, Neil, Condra, Smith, etc got with Spezza, Michalek, and Hemsky in the line up. What happens when those 3 are moved and not replaced? Their ice time won't only not change, but it may even increase. The depth just won't be there.

This is assuming we don't add any forwards of course.

Draft Day BlockBuster !!!

Spezza

For

Phaneuf

I want to go on record, that I like these two lines/collection of 6 forwards. I'm not sold on Hoffman, but he does have great moves and a killer shot. The other 5 are great.

However, we female doged and moaned all year about the ice time the likes of Greening, Neil, Condra, Smith, etc got with Spezza, Michalek, and Hemsky in the line up. What happens when those 3 are moved and not replaced? Their ice time won't only not change, but it may even increase. The depth just won't be there.

This is assuming we don't add any forwards of course.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I think maclean realizes the mistake he made handling ice time this year, and HOPEFULLY given the fact that he managed to keep his job despite that, he wont' make the same mistake next year.

i would be happy, assuming the entire "top line" is moved (with no top six players in exchange), with this top six.

macarthur - turris - stone
hoffman - zibby - ryan

(swap stone and ryan if you want, just felt this sort of evens the lines out a little)

i fully agree that they would score less, but i think when you tabulate how many goals they score, and subtract the number of goals they give up, it would be pretty damn close to what we had this year, we may even come out ahead.
- sensarmy_11

Hope to hell MacArthur doesn't regress like he did with the Leafs, hope Ryan resigns, hope Hoffman and Stone can be a top 6 wingers. Lots of question marks there. IMO

Berglund (resigned), Cole and a pick at most. St. Louis is not giving up Oshie, Tarasenko, Schwartz, or Rattie. You have a better chance getting Jaskin in my opinion. But the Blues are one the verge of done with Berglund. He would help puck possession time in the East though. Ian Cole could become a 4 or 5 Dman for you today.

The only interesting thing I heard was Shattenkirk. If they move him, it is an overreaction to a bad series.

I want to go on record, that I like these two lines/collection of 6 forwards. I'm not sold on Hoffman, but he does have great moves and a killer shot. The other 5 are great.

However, we female doged and moaned all year about the ice time the likes of Greening, Neil, Condra, Smith, etc got with Spezza, Michalek, and Hemsky in the line up. What happens when those 3 are moved and not replaced? Their ice time won't only not change, but it may even increase. The depth just won't be there.

This is assuming we don't add any forwards of course.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

It's really only Greening that pisses me off. Well, Neil does too, but I see his value. Condra, as a 4th liner, I like.

Next year, I can see one of Lazar, DaCosta, or Prince making the team. Pageau could also crack the team too.

Realistically, we could have a full line of bingo players next year. (Incl Stone).

To Ott > Ty Rattie , Patrick Berglund, 2014 2nd

To Stl > Jason Spezza


Would love to get a Shattenkirk, Oshie , Schwartz type player in this deal, but realistically that's not in St. Louis' best interest.

If that 2nd rounder was a 1st, that'd be about what we gave up for Bobby Ryan. & Spezza at this point in his career with all things considered is not worth the same as a Ryan.

We also have to consider if Ottawa gives permission to one of the 20 teams he is willing to waive his NTC to negotiate a new deal with, then we sign & trade. It changes out return for JS19 dramatically.

Exactly, he didn't play in the FIRST pairing. Because of that, Letang was never the #1 defenseman in Pittsburgh. Just like Mike Green was never the #1 Dman in Washington.

Your #1 center plays against the other teams best Dmen.
Your teams best Dmen play against the other team's #1 line.

Ok, here's a question so I can further understand you.

When Ottawa had Redden and Chara, Chara/Phillips played together against the other team's best players. Redden/Rachunek played in the next pairing.

In 02/03 and 03/04 Redden had more ice time per game than Chara. Why? Power play time.

So you're telling me that Redden was the #1 Dman in Ottawa, then? Not Chara, who played the bulk of the mins against the other team's first lines.
- Charliebox

John Muckler kept Wade Redden over Zdeno Chara.. Oh what could have been.