I'd say it's a terrible way. If your d partner has the puck and gives it away to someone for a breakaway and said player scores on the breakaway your a minus 1 and had nothing to do with the play. Same goes for getting a plus. Everyone from the other team would get a plus on that play for no reason. Terrible stat.
- ClarksonDavid

yeah this...

i dunno what that guy is all up in arms about...hes an oddly super sensitive random hawks fan...

yeah this...

i dunno what that guy is all up in arms about...hes an oddly super sensitive random hawks fan...
- TheMike12

I'm kind of glad he did.

It showed to me, anyways, how valuable Kyle Turris actually is, and how great of a season he had.

Best +/- of any non-playoff forward (by a pretty good margin, too) is a great achievement.

I'm kind of glad he did.

It showed to me, anyways, how valuable Kyle Turris actually is, and how great of a season he had.

Best +/- of any non-playoff forward (by a pretty good margin, too) is a great achievement.
- Charliebox

plus/minus is a worthless statistic I thought??

plus/minus is a worthless statistic I thought??
- EnzoD

it is

it is
- TheMike12

you can't have it both ways. If it shows how good Kyle turris is then it also shows karlsson is poor defensively

Not necessarily.

If you're a big minus on a great team, then sure, it shows that you suck defensively.

On the flip side, if you're a big + on a poor team, then it shows you are great at both ends of the ice.

Unfortunately, there aren't many times that this applies. Year after year, the best +/- players are on the best teams.

Have a look for yourself. Scroll through the years.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...lusMinus&viewName=summary

The best +/- of a non-playoff player is Kyle Turris at 28th in the league.

The best +/- of a non-playoff defenseman is Hamhuis at 79th overall (+13).

Hamhuis made team Canada, remember.

plus/minus is a worthless statistic I thought??
- EnzoD

Worthless without context? yes.

Entirely worthless? of course not.

you can't have it both ways. If it shows how good Kyle turris is then it also shows karlsson is poor defensively
- EnzoD

i never said anything about it being a good stat.....most people understand its not a great way to gauge things....especially when you see how bad the team - was for the team...

shea weber is an awesome defensemen that everyone would take on there team in a second...and he was -2...doesn't mean hes bad defensively...

+/- is way too subjective and is affected by way too many factors outside the players control to be a real indicator of much of anything..

i think what the other guy was posting about RE turris was that he was a +22 or whatever on what was as a whole a team with a god awful +/-

Because Miller is likely gone from StL, id trade anderson there too. He's the perfect fit. One year left and then they can decide what to do w him vs Jake Allen.


Anderson, Spezza

For

Bouwmeester, Rattie, Jaskin and G Niklas Lundstrum.


If Anderson isn't in the deal. I trade Spezza for Bouwmeester and Rattie. Try to lure a draft pick of some kind into the deal too.


If they were to move Andy, I then immediately sign Brodeur to play 30-40 games and mentor Lehner.

I then ship Shane prince and Dacosta to Buffalo for Chris Stewart. I then ship out a D like Gryba to the highest bidder or use him to sweeten any trade.

Because Miller is likely gone from StL, id trade anderson there too. He's the perfect fit. One year left and then they can decide what to do w him vs Jake Allen.


Anderson, Spezza

For

Bouwmeester, Rattie and Jaskin
- BodyCheckRadio

If Ottawa is giving up a #1 center AND #1 goalie....make it Schwartz (sp?) instead of rattie

Not sure id move Andy though.....unless they're signing a solid vet backup for Lehner

I agree that deal is very, optimistic. However, I think they'll need some nhl ready defense coming back in the trade. They need to improve there.
- david22

Good point.

its a pretty simple statistic of goals scored vs goals allowed. I'd say it is a good indicator of a players 200ft game and most NHL evaluators would agree.
- EnzoD

+/- is more a of team or certain line stat. Turris had a good +/- this season with the MacArthur- Turris - Ryan line. Now put KT between Neil & Greening & he would have a bad +/-

Would Turris be a plus +25 on that line & Neil & Greening be minus -25 because he is good at hockey & they are not ???

Because Miller is likely gone from StL, id trade anderson there too. He's the perfect fit. One year left and then they can decide what to do w him vs Jake Allen.


Anderson, Spezza

For

Bouwmeester, Rattie, Jaskin and G Niklas Lundstrum. If Anderson isn't in the deal. I trade Spezza for Bouwmeester and Rattie. Try to lure a draft pick of some kind into the deal too.


If they were to move Andy, I then immediately sign Brodeur to play 30-40 games and mentor Lehner.

I then ship Shane prince and Dacosta to Buffalo for Chris Stewart. I then ship out a D like Gryba to the highest bidder or use him to sweeten any trade.
- BodyCheckRadio

OMG you are on drugs.
Honestly why would St Louis acquire Spezza? Why does it help them? He's not what they need.

OMG you are on drugs.
Honestly why would St Louis acquire Spezza? Why does it help them? He's not what they need.
- Fakepartofme

If he's not what they need, and they don't want him, then why were they the most interested party at the deadline, and why did they actually make an offer?

I'm kind of glad he did.

It showed to me, anyways, how valuable Kyle Turris actually is, and how great of a season he had.

Best +/- of any non-playoff forward (by a pretty good margin, too) is a great achievement.
- Charliebox

Meh, +/- doesnt really mean anything.

If that's the case than Karlsson must really be bad defensively with his -15.

If he's not what they need, and they don't want him, then why were they the most interested party at the deadline, and why did they actually make an offer?
- sensarmy_11

Link?

If he's not what they need, and they don't want him, then why were they the most interested party at the deadline, and why did they actually make an offer?
- sensarmy_11

By the way, Im not crapping on Spezza....He's a good player.
I just dont believe he helps St Louis if they have to cough up a top 4 dman.
Jbo has excelled in St Louis.

Might as well shoot for the stars...

Spezza for StL 1st this year, Shattenkirk, and Rattie.

Honestly, if some combination of Anaheim/San Jose/Colorado end up flaming out, it might start a bidding war, and then all of a sudden that trade proposal up there doesn't sound too bad....
- the_terror

Ist pick for the Blues this yris in Buffallo for Miller

+/- is more a of team or certain line stat. Turris had a good +/- this season with the MacArthur- Turris - Ryan line. Now put KT between Neil & Greening & he would have a bad +/-

Would Turris be a plus +25 on that line & Neil & Greening be minus -25 because he is good at hockey & they are not ???
- Erik6Karlsson5

It's absolutely a team stat. There were only 7 players in the top 125 +/- that were on non-playoff teams......that's pretty telling

Berglund (resigned), Cole and a pick at most. St. Louis is not giving up Oshie, Tarasenko, Schwartz, or Rattie. You have a better chance getting Jaskin in my opinion. But the Blues are one the verge of done with Berglund. He would help puck possession time in the East though. Ian Cole could become a 4 or 5 Dman for you today.

The only interesting thing I heard was Shattenkirk. If they move him, it is an overreaction to a bad series.
- bluenoter

What about J-bo + for Spezza? I think he would fit perfectly with EK65. Any trade involving Spezza needs to have a T4D coming back. The Sens had no problems scoring but they were god awful all year on the back end.

I am also in the camp that believes it would be a big mistake moving Spezza. If he wants anything longer then 4 years then yes move him but it should be a no-brainer if he would settle for 4 years at 28m IMO

Link?
- Fakepartofme

I'm going by what Travis said.......he seems to research his info thoroughly before posting.....so if he says it, I tend to believe him

Link?
- Fakepartofme

I'm going by what Travis said.......he seems to research his info thoroughly before posting.....so if he says it, I tend to believe him

When everything is done and the dust has settled the deal will be Kahdri and Clarkson for Jason Spezza.
- spatso

and thats when I throw Sens jerseys onto the ice until i get removed from the CTC.

Horrific deal for Ottawa.

and thats when I throw Sens jerseys onto the ice until i get removed from the CTC.

Horrific deal for Ottawa.
- SENS 613

Yup.....spat so needs to give that idiotic proposal a rest.

Ottawa will not trade spezza for a downgrade at center, and the worst contract in the nhl.

Maybe if snow or milbury were our GM, but Murray isn't insane

Tarasenko and Schwartz are probably the only two untouchable players currently on the Blues roster. They already think way too highly to move them, unless it was an unrealistic deal like pulling Toews, Crosby, etc off their teams. I could see them trading Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk before the two of them.

Berglund is still an RFA and should get much more than the $3.25M he received this year and would very much be in play. I'd be surprised if the Blues moved one of their young roster players (other than Berglund) for Spezza since his contract expires after next year, he is 30+ (I believe), and will be looking to cash in on one more big contract. I would not be surprised if they'd be willing to move somebody like Rattie and while they have traded away some of their high picks, we still have a few others to replace them like Edmonton's second rounder.

Based on how they didn't use him at all in the playoffs, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Paajaarvi moved.