I initially thought maybe back to Tampa, but they have a lot of good young guys taking top 6 roles now, (only our 4th line is where he would probably remain, sadly).

I just think being known as a one trick pony, even on the power play would be too easy for most teams to key on, despite the 20 goals he bagged, would he be able to duplicate that next year?
My guess is no, he's a year older, & probably slower.
- puckhead17

He won't duplicate it here. Not unless he gets first PP time, which seems very unlikely. He shot his highest percentage EVER. In a normal year, he would have had about 15 goals.

I just think he could help on a PP. I realize I am reaching though. A team would really need to be high on him to take him.

I hate it too. However, if I can add another top 6 true winger like Moulson, Vanek(Cost prohibitive) or Dman with the space then I do it. I honestly think Vinny is much more dealable than Hartnell who is here for the term of his contract.
- jstross

i don't know about that. hartnell has proved himself to be a reliable point producer, chippy, and prob a good "room" guy, in addition to being durable. i think there would be several teams willing to take him off our hands without us having to give up picks or eat money as the cost of doing business.

i was high on the signing - even if i didn't like the years/money - again, a bit too long/much for my liking. i'm hopeful he can regain his effectiveness next year. i really wanted to see gagne back just to play with him. for some reason i believe they'd be good together. that ship has sailed.
- hammarby31

I understand why they did it, (Schenn not grabbing the 2nd line by the ballz like they wanted), but, yeah, like you said the term is a joke.
Next year he will be a year older, after showing the years on his frame this year, that's enough for me.

He needs a demonic duck on that mask!
- puckhead17

virtually anything would be better. i like the matte black look and the minimal approach, but it just doesn't work.

Sorry, I would love for us to get him.

Especially with Kimmo's $ coming off, (maybe).
- puckhead17

I don't hate Niskanen. I'm just concerned about paying him for 6 years at probably close to $6 million/yr. Do I think the Flyers would pay that? Probably, "yes". I would be more comfortable paying Kimmo 1 yr at $4 million and just get another year for the young kids to continue to develop. I think they view MacDonald as capable of eating major minutes at 5 on 5 and the PK, which could keep Kimmo's minutes down and hopefully fresh for the playoff run next year.

I think he would be the best shootout player on this team other then Giroux. Granted, that is not saying much. However, a 20 goal scorer who is a decent two-way forward who is only 31 and you could probably get for no more then $4 million, I think is advantageous.
- ravishingone

i wouldn't be opposed to the acquisition, provided the cost was right.

Streit scored 4 PP goals to 1 compared to Timonen. Streit shoots the puck much better then Timonen does.
- MJL

Yes, he actually hits the net and has a much harder shot

i don't know about that. hartnell has proved himself to be a reliable point producer, chippy, and prob a good "room" guy, in addition to being durable. i think there would be several teams willing to take him off our hands without us having to give up picks or eat money as the cost of doing business.
- hammarby31

Grass always looks greener, but if the FLyers could somehow trade Hartnell and Vinny without losing anything that $9.25 million in cap space could be better spent and open up room for the younger players. IMO of course.

I understand why they did it, (Schenn not grabbing the 2nd line by the ballz like they wanted), but, yeah, like you said the term is a joke.
Next year he will be a year older, after showing the years on his frame this year, that's enough for me.
- puckhead17

a lot to expect schenn to take that leap this season. championship, veteran experience who has piled up a lot of goals - that's a good thing to have. i really think the back injury hindered him more than the linemate issues.

I hate it too. However, if I can add another top 6 true winger like Moulson, Vanek(Cost prohibitive) or Dman with the space then I do it. I honestly think Vinny is much more dealable than Hartnell who is here for the term of his contract.
- jstross

I dont understand the lovefest with Moulson. The guy is going to get $6M over 5-6 years. His numbers are fairly similar to Hartnell. He's been helped by having good chemistry with JT. He's, also, 30 years old. Its not like they'd be getting some elite winger hitting his prime.

I don't hate Niskanen. I'm just concerned about paying him for 6 years at probably close to $6 million/yr. Do I think the Flyers would pay that? Probably, "yes". I would be more comfortable paying Kimmo 1 yr at $4 million and just get another year for the young kids to continue to develop. I think they view MacDonald as capable of eating major minutes at 5 on 5 and the PK, which could keep Kimmo's minutes down and hopefully fresh for the playoff run next year.
- ravishingone

I was hoping to keep Kimo for half that.

He won't duplicate it here. Not unless he gets first PP time, which seems very unlikely. He shot his highest percentage EVER. In a normal year, he would have had about 15 goals.

I just think he could help on a PP. I realize I am reaching though. A team would really need to be high on him to take him.
- PhillySportsGuy

Lecavalier is a 13 time 20 goal scorer in this League. And that's in 15 seasons. The only times he didn't score 20 or more goals, were in his rookie year, and the strike shortened season. So saying in a normal year, he would have had about 15 goals, is a false statement. A normal year for Lecavalier goal wise is 20 or more goals. And if he wasn't injured and forced to play out of position. Probably looking at somewhere around 25-30 goals for Lecavalier this season.
And it's also incorrect that he had his highest shooting percentage ever.

I don't hate Niskanen. I'm just concerned about paying him for 6 years at probably close to $6 million/yr. Do I think the Flyers would pay that? Probably, "yes". I would be more comfortable paying Kimmo 1 yr at $4 million and just get another year for the young kids to continue to develop. I think they view MacDonald as capable of eating major minutes at 5 on 5 and the PK, which could keep Kimmo's minutes down and hopefully fresh for the playoff run next year.
- ravishingone

Yes, I could see this, I don't know if the kids would be ready to take on big minutes for a while, maybe 2-3 years down the road, this team needs another capable defenseman.
Homer had no problem throwing the cash and term at Vinny, giving it to Niskanen would be $$$ well spent in caparison.
If Kimmo does retire, we have Coburn, MacDonald, Luke, & what else?
Streit did play much better, but again, he's 36?
Grossmann is ok, so is Gus, but for this team to seriously contend, the back line needs to be solidified.

Grass always looks greener, but if the FLyers could somehow trade Hartnell and Vinny without losing anything that $9.25 million in cap space could be better spent and open up room for the younger players. IMO of course.
- jstross

i'm just bored with hartnell, and don't think he's going to improve. he's valuable, but has his weaknesses. i'm also really sour on his lack of playoff production this season. he was (frank)ing useless out there. it's certainly coloring my judgment right now.

i wouldn't be all that upset if they were able to move both without having to give up anything else.

a lot to expect schenn to take that leap this season. championship, veteran experience who has piled up a lot of goals - that's a good thing to have. i really think the back injury hindered him more than the linemate issues.
- hammarby31

There was nothing said about the continuing back issues, for what we know he was healthy. I just wonder if he can get any better?

Or was it really age?, (as in mileage, not the number?)

Lecavalier is a 13 time 20 goal scorer in this League. And that's in 15 seasons. The only times he didn't score 20 or more goals, were in his rookie year, and the strike shortened season. So saying in a normal year, he would have had about 15 goals, is a false statement. A normal year for Lecavalier goal wise is 20 or more goals. And if he wasn't injured and forced to play out of position. Probably looking at somewhere around 25-30 goals for Lecavalier this season.
- MJL

If Lecavalier had his average shooting percentage over his career, he would have had 15 goals. Thats what I'm saying.

I'm not sure why you put so much weight in goals. He was an atrocious two-way player. His 20 goals would look a lot better if he wasn't on the ice for so many goals against.

There was nothing said about the continuing back issues, for what we know he was heeled.
- puckhead17

yes, i know...but that doesn't really mean anything. guys play all year at less than 100%. he never regained the same level of performance after the injury. it's probably a combination of reasons, and i believe the injury was one of them.

as for age - it's not like he's 40. he's still got some years left.

If Lecavalier had his average shooting percentage over his career, he would have had 15 goals. Thats what I'm saying.

I'm not sure why you put so much weight in goals. He was an atrocious two-way player. His 20 goals would look a lot better if he wasn't on the ice for so many goals against.
- PhillySportsGuy

I put so much weight on goals because that is what the game is about. I think you're statement is false. Lecavalier has scored over 400 goals, and scored 20 goals in a season 13 times. A normal season for him is 20 goals or more. He's never been known as a top defensive player. How many of the goals that he was on the ice for, were directly his fault?

yes, i know...but that doesn't really mean anything. guys play all year at less than 100%. he never regained the same level of performance after the injury. it's probably a combination of reasons, and i believe the injury was one of them.

as for age - it's not like he's 40. he's still got some years left.
- hammarby31

No I agree, he's not 40, but, next year he will have 17 years of mileage, I was more concerned about that.
Only a handful of guys have maintained their game with that kind of mileage.

I dont understand the lovefest with Moulson. The guy is going to get $6M over 5-6 years. His numbers are fairly similar to Hartnell. He's been helped by having good chemistry with JT. He's, also, 30 years old. Its not like they'd be getting some elite winger hitting his prime.
- PhillySportsGuy

No way would I sign him for $6 million/ 6 years. If that's the market then I take a step back. Not going $6 million and not going 6 years. Hartnell has 5 years left at $4.75 years. Moulson is 1.5 years younger and gets over 100 less PIM a year. Would you trade Hartnell for a 4th round pick and sign Moulson 5/$25 with no MNC?

I put so much weight on goals because that is what the game is about. I think you're statement is false. Lecavalier has scored over 400 goals, and scored 20 goals in a season 13 times. A normal season for him is 20 goals or more. He's never been known as a top defensive player. How many of the goals that he was on the ice for, were directly his fault?
- MJL

Yup. I guess it was all just bad luck. The other team kept scoring just as Vinny hopped off the bench.

Get real, dude. VL was sheltered all season. He has the highest ozone starting% and only Rinaldo played against weaker competition.

There is a reason he's been moved around so much and demoted to the 4th line. Its not like Berube is some bumhole who likes putting prestigious players down in the lineup.

Edit: I put weight on both players who score goals and players who prevent goals. Saying VL "isn't known as a defensive player" is such a lame excuse for his poor defense.

Yup. I guess it was all just bad luck. The other team kept scoring just as Vinny hopped off the bench.

Get real, dude. VL was sheltered all season. He has the highest ozone starting% and only Rinaldo played against weaker competition.

There is a reason he's been moved around so much and demoted to the 4th line. Its not like Berube is some bumhole who likes putting prestigious players down in the lineup.
- PhillySportsGuy

No thats Ovechkin

No I agree, he's not 40, but, next year he will have 17 years of mileage, I was more concerned about that.
Only a handful of guys have maintained their game with that kind of mileage.
- puckhead17

I'd say it's a lot more then a handful. It's not uncommon for player to play at a high level well into their 30's. A lot of things have to happen for Lecavalier to be a good player again. He has to be healthy. He has to be used right, and he has to play with the right kind of players. But there is no doubt in my mind, that unless his back injury is chronic, that he can produce at a level to make the contract and the signing worth it. The Flyers have to decide what they want, going forward. If they're not going to use him right, then they should try to move him.

No thats Ovechkin
- puckhead17

The Selke is really just an award for the player who has mastered the art of jumping on the ice just as a goal is scored for their team.

The Selke is really just an award for the player who has mastered the art of jumping on the ice just as a goal is scored for their team.
- PhillySportsGuy