I agree with dcz and Sven... been saying all year that Glendening does NOT belong on the Wings roster. He offers no offense... and is average at best defensively. But I also noticed another issue with Glendening... he loses big, important faceoffs (especially in the playoffs). Saw it several times against Boston. I laugh and shake my head when other Wings fans say he is the equivalent to the former "Grind Line" players like Draper, Maltby or McCarty (not even close... and complete nonsense). The fact that Holland resigned Glendening is complete lunacy. Now we're stuck with him for three more years. And unless there is a coaching change Babcock will keep putting him on the ice.

I know he played at Michigan... and I heard that Babcock is a friend of coach Berenson. Also have to wonder if Holland is a U of M fan too. Their favoritism for Glendening is glaringly obvious... and extremely frustrating as it's not even justified. Sorry... but being a hard worker is not enough to be a true NHLer.

I think for next season Wings just gotta cut loose all the old dead weight (Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Tootoo). This will free up some cap space. I hope they don't resign Legwand... not convinced he add enough value to keep him. It sickens me that Holland gave up Jarnkrok in that horrible trade. It will be interesting to see which veterans Holland will finally have to part with. The whole Weiss injury fiasco has been a mess.

On an unrelated side note.. the Grand Rapids Griffins are getting their butts handed to them by the Texas Stars in the AHL. That Texas Team has some serious offense... and GR have not found any formula to neutralize that offense. Griffins lost 4-0 tonight and are down 2-0 in the series. They better find a way to win at home on Tuesday or this series is over in a hurray.

I think Glendening was a nice surprise during a turbulant season with his work ethic and some nice defensive posturing, but I agree with much of Sven says.

He simply doesn't impact the game enough for all of that to really translate to wins.

I would dare to say that he was resigned, in a similar way that Lashoff was signed... you know what youre getting for a depth player, price is right and if they find another gear, it will be some additional gravy.

Gauge expectations though because they most likely will be pedestrian, basically, they can do the job for 600k vs 1.2 million... again, not a game winning decision on many nights.

On an unrelated side note.. the Grand Rapids Griffins are getting their butts handed to them by the Texas Stars in the AHL. That Texas Team has some serious offense... and GR have not found any formula to neutralize that offense. Griffins lost 4-0 tonight and are down 2-0 in the series. They better find a way to win at home on Tuesday or this series is over in a hurray.
- Vladdie_Kon1

I watched most of game 1 but missed game 2. From what I saw, the Griffins defense can't seem to be able to deal with the speed and skill of Texas. Guys are getting behind them and around them way too much while the Griffins offense is being kept to the outside and given little to no space to shoot. They were also missing the net a lot in game 1.

I agree that they can't afford to lose the next game.

Another reason the GR Griffins are struggling offensively: an injured Adam Almquist.

It's well-documented that I believe Almquist is the smartest defenseman the Red Wings have at any level (with the possible exception of Danny DeKeyser). He is Lidstrom-esque in his ability to make smart, quick plays. In fact, he has a lot of Lidstrom qualities; small size (Nick was 190 lbs for being 6'2" in his prime), average to above-average skating, elite stick positioning, little-to-no physicality, and a knack for getting his shot through (for goals, rebounds, and tips). I would say that Almquist is Erik Karlsson sans skating ability. A very, very accurate NHL comparison to his all-around skill set. I've read a few articles claiming that Almquist has seemingly no future with the organization, and that he won't be willing to play in Grand Rapids next season, opting to go back to play in Sweden. This would be a massive asset mismanagement if at all true.

Despite in want/need of right-handed shooting defensemen, Almquist far and away deserves a shot more than any other Red Wings prospect at the NHL level next season. I honestly think a pairing of Almquist and DeKeyser has the potential to be a great 2nd top-4 unit. Remember those Quincey passes right to the other team? Throwing a grenade off the glass to no one? Whipping it to the neutral zone when a friendly forward was open? Your troubles are solved! AlmQ doesn't have what it takes to endure the abuse of bottom-6 forwards at the NHL level, yet. Even if you can play him just 41 games at home for last change development it would go a long way for the kid. He's still just 23. Enough of that rant.

What many of you appear to forget is that Luke Glendening was a ROOKIE forward entering just his 2nd year of professional hockey. It was also his first full season as a center. A lot of his criticism isn't far off of what you'd give any prospect 18-25 years of age in his first NHL season and second as a pro. A big difference, for me, is exactly what the organization loves about him: Determination. He's determined to do whatever he can to help the team win. He's 1 of 5 players on the Red Wings that work their a**es off every shift, every game. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, and Helm are the others. There are a lot of qualities that can't be quantified by statistics, too. What I like to call the "Maltby Factor". His ability to agitate within the rules and get a star player off his game. It wasn't something he did often until the last 20-or-so games. Considering the "quality of competition" he faced the last quarter of the season with the ice time he was given, I honestly don't have any complaints for the role he was given. His lack of offense is often frustrating, but the types of players he helped prevent from scoring for the majority of the late season was very promising as a 4th line forward.

There are a lot of more important things to complain about and suggest fixing than Luke Glendening's position as the Red Wing's 4th line center.

Regarding rant 1:

Lidstrom comparisons are pretty high praise (the highest possible praise, really); I wouldn't go that far, though stylistically there are some definite similarities. In general though I'm sympathetic to your perspective on Almquist. I live in Grand Rapids, and I catch several games per year. Almquist is my favorite player to watch.

The Griffins were stacked this year with a deep, talented blueline, but even saying that, Almquist was almost certainly their best defenseman. No, he doesn't have Ryan Sproul's jawbreaker canon from the point, and he doesn't skate as well as Marchenko. And he's small, too (he's listed 5'11", 174, but I'm not sure I buy that -- he looks a lot smaller in person). But despite his physical limitations, nobody on the Griffins' blueline is better at actually playing hockey.

Whether that translates into NHL success is an open question, and it wouldn't surprise me if ultimately guys with a few more physical tools (and are a bit younger yet) turn into better pros at the NHL level. But Almquist has been great in the AHL, he looked great in the NHL preseason last year, he deserves a shot.

I know a lot of people have been writing him off, especially because he seems to have been leapfrogged in terms of callup priority by the likes of Sproul and Ouellet. But I still kinda think Almquist is going to be on Detroit's roster next season, even if he's starting out as the No. 7 defenseman. Unlike Marchenko/Ouellet/Sproul, Almquist can't be sent down to the minors next season without clearing waivers first, so my guess is that unless one of the other young D makes a quantum leap forward, the Wings will give Almquist his opportunity to prove himself in the NHL rather than risk losing him to Europe or another NHL team.

Regarding rant 2:

This is going to be broken up into three parts because it's excruciatingly long winded, as is my weakness. If you want to cut straight to the TLDR summary, go right to post 3.

And just in case anyone thinks I'm coming on too strong -- I mean no offense to anyone. I write these posts because I enjoy talking hockey and because I respect the opinions of my fellow fans, even though I often disagree with them.

You: Glendening is a rookie entering his 2nd year of professional hockey, so we should cut him some slack.

Me: Not all rookies are created equal. Glendening is not 18, or even 20, or even 23. He's 25. And while most rookies go through growing pains, most (virtually all, actually) rookies were excellent-if-not-dominant players at lower levels. They rip up the NCAA or juniors or the AHL, and you hope that either they keep developing those skills or learn to make the right adjustments, they can be solid NHL contributors.

Even NHL grinders and plugs were typically the best players on their teams before they turned pro. Tootoo, Helm, Emmerton, Lashoff, Kindl -- all elite junior players who led their teams in scoring (or defense scoring) at least once. Eaves, Miller, Abdelkader -- all elite college players, and only Abdelkader never led his team in scoring (he finished 2nd). Joakim Andersson is the all-time international games played leader for Sweden's junior team, and was a dynamite 2-way center in the Swedish juniors, Swedish second division, and the AHL.

These are not cherry-picked examples. That's pretty much the entire bottom half of Detroit's roster last season. Everyone that is, except for Glendening, who was not a particularly good high school player, not a particularly good NCAA player, and not a particularly good AHL player. I just think it's madness to think that at age 25, having no track record of being particularly good at any level of the game, he's suddenly going to figure it out and become an effective hockey player in the NHL.

If you're a forward getting 10+ minutes of even strength ice time per game and it looks like you're going to top out at around 10-15 points per season, max, you'd better play runaway-Selke-winner-level defense, because otherwise you're a waste of a spot. Glendening is all right defensively, but it in no way makes up for his other shortcomings. Not even close.

You: He's determined to do whatever he can to help the team win.

Me: ... except play hockey at an NHL caliber level. Seriously, I love that the guy is a ballistic missile willing to completely empty his tank and do whatever he possibly can do to help the team win, but all the determination in the world isn't going to help you if the skill just isn't there.

If the Red Wings signed me tomorrow (I'm even a right-shooting defenseman!) I promise you that I'd play my guts out every night. Wouldn't make up for the fact that I suck. Glendening doesn't "suck" (he's a perfectly useful minor league player) but in no way is he now, or likely ever, good enough to be in any NHL team's top 14 or so forwards.

You: He gets under the skin of opposing players, a factor that cannot be quantified with statistics.

Me: ... except that it can be quantified with statistics! Or at least we can start to do it.

A good "pest" or "agitator" draws more penalties than he takes, giving his team extra powerplay opportunities. Tootoo, for example, historically has done very well in this department.

Although the best players at drawing excess powerplays tend to be star forwards (teams take the most penalties when they've been compromised on defense, and skilled speedsters do that better than anyone), given enough playing time and considering normal PP and PK conversion rates, a super-pest that plays third line or so minutes can earn you 2, maybe 3 extra goals per season.

Glendening? Took 11, drew 14. That's not bad, especially considering the Red Wings were usually playing defense when Glendening was on the ice. But still, three extra powerplays per season? That's half a goal. Very small potatoes.

And just for some context, Glendening was only 10th on the team in "penalty plus minus." Helm led at +14, with Datsyuk at +13. Abdelkader was the best of the pests at +8, and Drew Miller matched Glendening at +3.

Furthermore, if a player is really annoying the other team's players to the point that it actually is reducing their effectiveness, we should see it in the numbers somewhere. The other team should actually play worse (take fewer shots, score fewer goals, etc.) when the pest is on the ice, and that should show up in the data.

The entire point of the game is to outscore your opposition. Pissing off the other team's best players is fun, but if it isn't actually helping your team score goals or preventing the other team from scoring on you, what good is it really doing?

I have no doubt Glendening is aggravating to play against, but it doesn't seem to stop anybody from kicking Detroit's azz when he's on the ice. Per 60 minutes at even strength with Glendening on the ice, the Red Wings surrender about 7.5 more shot attempts than they generate and allow almost a full goal more than they score.

And it's not just a reflection of the role -- Glendening played harder minutes than most Red Wing forwards, but not appreciatably harder minutes than the average NHL forward (he took about an equal number of offensive zone and defensive zone draws), and certainly not harder minutes than Miller or Andersson, who did better than him on both ends of the ice statistically.

Lastly, it's interesting to me that you make the comparison with Maltby, which I actually think is very apt (but not for the same reason you do).

Like anyone else I have very fond memories of the Grind Line days, but I also think Maltby is the best example (well, besides Osgood) of Holland hanging onto a borderline player for way too long. Pre-lockout Maltby was a solid defensive forward and quality pest who could chip in a little bit of scoring. But post-2005 his defensive play started to slip and his offense completely disappeared. For the last 3-4 years of his career I think he was one of the least effective regular players in the entire NHL.

You: There are bigger things to worry about than Detroit's fourth line center.

Me: ... okay, you're right. Glendening vs. some other theoretical fourth line center is a pretty low-impact argument to have.

But I get worked up about it because it seems so clear-cut to me. With Franzen, you can make a solid argument that he should be a first line winger, or a second line center, or traded. Obviously that decision makes a much bigger difference to the team than who centers the fourth line, but at least there's some abiguity there with what the best course of action is.

I just think Glendening is so CLEARLY not an NHL player (at least from my perspective), that there are so many clearly better options than him, that it bugs me to no end that he keeps getting tossed over the boards anyway.

My take, summarized: Glendening is not a horrible defensive forward. But he's not an especially good one, mainly because he can't get the puck out of Detroit's zone and keep it out.

And he doesn't add any offense. We're talking 2nd/3rd line AHL scoring ability here. One point about every 6 to 8 games in the NHL is all you're going to get.

And the Red Wings get killed in open play when he's on the ice, so unless you're killing a penalty or up by exactly one goal with less than 2 minutes to go he's basically the worst guy you can put on the ice.

And there is nothing in his playing history (NCAA, AHL, NHL) that suggests he's hiding any untapped potential or has any explosive raw skills than need honing. Even Cory Emmerton was a scorer in juniors. Glendening is not a young player who needs to learn how to "translate" his success at lower levels to the increased competition of the NHL. There is nothing to translate. He was not especially successful at lower levels in the first place.

And he's 25, which means he's very likely not going to get much better than he is right now.

Glendening is signed through the end of 2017, at which point he'll be 28 years old. I would not at all be shocked if he has already signed his last NHL contract.

Griffins up 5-0 after two periods...

Wish I would have gone to the game tonight. Maybe tomorrow or Friday I'll go.

Jurco with a hat trick and a fight...

Griffins up 5-0 after two periods...

Wish I would have gone to the game tonight. Maybe tomorrow or Friday I'll go.

Jurco with a hat trick and a fight...
- Vladdie_Kon1

Much better game from them tonight (minor let down early in the 3rd period aside). Funny to see the Texas player wanted nothing to do with Evans, then Callahan trying to take off his full face cage helmet to go with him only to see him finally drop the gloves with Jurco.


Edit: Mantha and Val D'or up 3-2 now in game 7 late in the 3rd period. Mantha with 2 assists. Now 3-3...damnit.

Mantha scores with 52 seconds left in the 3rd to give his team back the lead

Griffins up 5-0 after two periods...

Wish I would have gone to the game tonight. Maybe tomorrow or Friday I'll go.

Jurco with a hat trick and a fight...
- Vladdie_Kon1

Likewise. Kicking myself a bit for not getting tickets.

I'll be there tonight.

How about them Griffins ? Way to bounce back and get right back in the series.

Heard Jurco is injured but not sure what to make of it. Going to the game on Friday and can't wait. Should be a good one. Let's keep it rolling Griffins

How about them Griffins ? Way to bounce back and get right back in the series.

Heard Jurco is injured but not sure what to make of it. Going to the game on Friday and can't wait. Should be a good one. Let's keep it rolling Griffins
- Vladdie_Kon1

I was at the Wednesday game. Jurco was in the starting lineup and played the first period, but didn't come out for the second.

No idea what it was. Certainly I didn't notice Jurco getting obviously injured on any play but who knows, might have tweaked something after a routine hit, might have been feeling a little woozy, who knows. AHL teams are even less transparent than NHL teams as far as reporting injuries are concerned.

Pretty big wings fan, love driving up to the Joe but just read about Abdelkaters suspension at the worlds. In the picture he has the C? Havent seen the roster but thats rough, havent seen him play the much but isnt he a third liner?

Pretty big wings fan, love driving up to the Joe but just read about Abdelkaters suspension at the worlds. In the picture he has the C? Havent seen the roster but thats rough, havent seen him play the much but isnt he a third liner?
- BillKessel

Yes, he's the captain. Which is really not that surprising, honestly, when you check out the roster:

http://www.iihfworlds2014...teams/united-states/#list

Not a lot of skilled vets on that squad. It's mostly a lot of grinders and kids (including a few still in college, or just out).

It's pretty normal for national teams with a lot of NHL representation to send very weak sides to the World Championships. All the best players are either still in the playoffs when the rosters have to be finalized, or choose to skip the tourney to rest, heal from injuries, spend time with family, etc.

Yes, he's the captain. Which is really not that surprising, honestly, when you check out the roster:

http://www.iihfworlds2014...teams/united-states/#list

Not a lot of skilled vets on that squad. It's mostly a lot of grinders and kids (including a few still in college, or just out).

It's pretty normal for national teams with a lot of NHL representation to send very weak sides to the World Championships. All the best players are either still in the playoffs when the rosters have to be finalized, or choose to skip the tourney to rest, heal from injuries, spend time with family, etc.
- Sven22

Thats my bad, i looked at it, i guess it seems reasonable, and i was corrected when i looked at the lines for the playoffs when he played 1st line duties with Z. Thats amazing didnt realize he made the jump, makes sense though i remember game 7 against the pens, he was on the ice . Hes been around awhile, i just thought there were other parts above him. Best of luck to the wings in the offseason, and re sign Babs

Here's a blog for you Sven...made me think of you when I read it

http://nightmareonhelmstr...-glendening-valuable.html

Here's a blog for you Sven...made me think of you when I read it

http://nightmareonhelmstr...-glendening-valuable.html
- dcz28

Arrrgggghhhh! I already posted a rebuttal.

This is my crusade, people. The filthy lie that Glendening is a competent NHL player must be put to the sword.

Arrrgggghhhh! I already posted a rebuttal.

This is my crusade, people. The filthy lie that Glendening is a competent NHL player must be put to the sword.
- Sven22

That's why I was laughing as I read it thinking of you. There is always going to be some (the type of fans that believe that Holland or Babcock can do no wrong and everything they do is the right choice no matter how it turns out) that will debate a losing cause.

Well this is the end for the Griffins now 7-1. They really could have used Marchenko and Almquist in this series. If only they would have had Glendening they could have won another championship

Well this is the end for the Griffins now 7-1. They really could have used Marchenko and Almquist in this series. If only they would have had Glendening they could have won another championship
- dcz28

Texas has a great AHL team.

The Griffins are still pretty much a prospect-led team, with almost all the significant contributors on the top half of the roster born in 1991 or earlier. Emmerton and maybe Paetsch are the only in-their-prime veterans with substantial roles, and if you include past-their-prime veterans you can arguably throw Hoggan in that group as well. The rest of the vets play complementary roles.

Compare to Texas, which is loaded up with experienced professionals (Travis Morin, Derek Meech, Chris Mueller, Colton Sceviour, Mike Hedden, Christopher Nilstorp), all aged 25-30. That's 4 of their top 5 scorers this season, probably their best defenseman, and their starting goalie -- guys who are not really NHL prospects anymore, but because they're in their primes and have tons of professional experience they are outstanding AHL players.

I don't follow the Dallas Stars that closely, so I'm not really sure how this all came to be, but for whatever reason it sure looks like they made a conscious effort to stack their AHL team with high-end minor leaguers. Whether that was because they wanted a great minor league team (at the potential cost of development time for their own prospects), or because they prefered veterans to rookies in injury call-up situations, or because they felt like their own prospects weren't ready yet, or whatever else, I have no idea.

Still, would love to exercise the "what if" machine to see a replay of this series with Almquist and Marchenko. Can you imagine how good Grand Rapids' blueline would have been if everyone was healthy?

Almquist - Backman
Marchenko - Sproul
Ouellet - Paetsch

I mean, I sort of threw them into pairings semi-arbitrarily, but honestly pair them up however you want. Those are six good to great AHL defensemen.

Texas has a great AHL team.

The Griffins are still pretty much a prospect-led team, with almost all the significant contributors on the top half of the roster born in 1991 or earlier. Emmerton and maybe Paetsch are the only in-their-prime veterans with substantial roles, and if you include past-their-prime veterans you can arguably throw Hoggan in that group as well. The rest of the vets play complementary roles.

Compare to Texas, which is loaded up with experienced professionals (Travis Morin, Derek Meech, Chris Mueller, Colton Sceviour, Mike Hedden, Christopher Nilstorp), all aged 25-30. That's 4 of their top 5 scorers this season, probably their best defenseman, and their starting goalie -- guys who are not really NHL prospects anymore, but because they're in their primes and have tons of professional experience they are outstanding AHL players.

I don't follow the Dallas Stars that closely, so I'm not really sure how this all came to be, but for whatever reason it sure looks like they made a conscious effort to stack their AHL team with high-end minor leaguers. Whether that was because they wanted a great minor league team (at the potential cost of development time for their own prospects), or because they prefered veterans to rookies in injury call-up situations, or because they felt like their own prospects weren't ready yet, or whatever else, I have no idea.

Still, would love to exercise the "what if" machine to see a replay of this series with Almquist and Marchenko. Can you imagine how good Grand Rapids' blueline would have been if everyone was healthy?

Almquist - Backman
Marchenko - Sproul
Ouellet - Paetsch

I mean, I sort of threw them into pairings semi-arbitrarily, but honestly pair them up however you want. Those are six good to great AHL defensemen.
- Sven22

They also have Dustin Jeffrey who has over 120 games of NHL experience and is 26 years old. Much more experience team as you said in bigger roles. They did a good job of clogging up the middle of the ice in their zone to block a lot of shots and keep the Griffins to the outside. I think both Almquist and Marchenko would have made a difference. Griffins defense were getting beat wide or with a pass to a player behind the defense a lot in this series.

Good thing is they could be even better next season with most of those guys back with more experience and maybe the addition of Mantha on top of that. Again they should be an interesting team to watch.