Tomahawk, you totally sold out!

In 3 years, when Seguin is a Hart Trophy candidate and Hamitlon is developing into a #1 dman, they'll get really mad again.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm actually ok with this, seeing as I love watching Leaf fans bath in agony.

That trade might be one of the worst of all time in a few years

Those types of guys are easy to find in FA and cheap too. What would Rinaldo make on the open market?

It just makes more sense to take a shot in the dark on a raw prospect than draft a 13th forward who will bring energy and indiscipline
- PhillySportsGuy

At absolute most around $1mm. Guys like that can be valuable, but they can also hurt as much as they help. We saw it with Carcillo.

It's sad, because I think they have a great group of players, and a lot of up and coming talent... the coach was obviously the problem, but of course he's the guy who gets the 2-year stamp of approval, lol.
- Tomahawk

It is sad. Because doubling down on the coach is fine, if that's what you're gonna do. But you start flipping guys like Kadri, who is scoring at maybe an even better clip than a young player should, and a guy like Gardiner who isn't a shutdown defenseman but really has shown on the ice that he can produce points from the back end, just because they coach wants more veterans...

Man. That is a tough, tough deal. Because if Nonis pulls the trigger on something like that, you can't even say they were prospects. Those guys are NHL players who happen to be young.

It is sad. Because doubling down on the coach is fine, if that's what you're gonna do. But you start flipping guys like Kadri, who is scoring at maybe an even better clip than a young player should, and a guy like Gardiner who isn't a shutdown defenseman but really has shown on the ice that he can produce points from the back end, just because they coach wants more veterans...

Man. That is a tough, tough deal. Because if Nonis pulls the trigger on something like that, you can't even say they were prospects. Those guys are NHL players who happen to be young.
- AllInForFlyers

I don't know how everyone kept their jobs. I would have fired everybody-Carlyle, Nonis, Loiselle, Poulin...its a poop show.

I don't know how everyone kept their jobs. I would have fired everybody-Carlyle, Nonis, Loiselle, Poulin...its a poop show.
- Jsaquella

It's wonderful

I'm actually ok with this, seeing as I love watching Leaf fans bath in agony.

That trade might be one of the worst of all time in a few years
- Giroux_Is_God

If Kessel fizzled out, I would agree, but he's been good for them. I still think the Montreal Gomez deal was worse. At least Kessel makes the Leafs better. Gomez made the Habs worse.

I don't know how everyone kept their jobs. I would have fired everybody-Carlyle, Nonis, Loiselle, Poulin...its a poop show.
- Jsaquella

I might've kept Nonis, because he's shown that he can build a team that has sustained success before.

But no way would I have brought Carlyle back. No way in hell.

Listening to Darryl Sutter is painful

I might've kept Nonis, because he's shown that he can build a team that has sustained success before.

But no way would I have brought Carlyle back. No way in hell.
- AllInForFlyers

I would have fired them all. The Clarkson contract, not moving Reimer when he had value, even considering shopping kids like Kadri or Gardiner...that's the kind of logic, buying out Grabovski.

Listening to Darryl Sutter is painful
- Giroux_Is_God

He must be right at home during funerals

That's true, too.

Sbisa went away and struggled, Niinimaa had a decent career, but never fulfilled the promise he showed as a rookie, Pitkanen had a good solid career, too.

The one guy I can think of that had a really solid career and exceeded expectations is Seidenberg.

But again, they usually don't draft Dmen that high. A few second rounders, but especially under Homer, they haven't had a lot of 2nds.
- Jsaquella

I don't necessarily mind a youngster being "rushed" to the big club. Each prospect certainly has a different rate of development. My issue is when the young guy is in the line-up, the jerking around of responsibilities. Recent examples include Sbisa. They didn't send him back to junior, but then Lava is playing him as 4th line winger role near the end of his rookie year. Totally unacceptable. Coots last year being a 4th center role with abysmal wingers. Why? It would be nice to determine if B. Schenn is a LW or center. IMO, you have to give your prime prospects defined roles once they reach the NHL and let them learn from their mistakes. That is my main concern.

I would have fired them all. The Clarkson contract, not moving Reimer when he had value, even considering shopping kids like Kadri or Gardiner...that's the kind of logic, buying out Grabovski.
- Jsaquella

I find it hard to believe he was immovable. Was his contract that bad?

I would have fired them all. The Clarkson contract, not moving Reimer when he had value, even considering shopping kids like Kadri or Gardiner...that's the kind of logic, buying out Grabovski.
- Jsaquella

You know what? I just thought about what I wrote, and you're right.

Nonis has his fingerprints on that, too -- if he is saying that Carlyle's the answer and the young players are the problem, then he does have it backwards and he should've had to go.

I don't necessarily mind a youngster being "rushed" to the big club. Each prospect certainly has a different rate of development. My issue is when the young guy is in the line-up, the jerking around of responsibilities. Recent examples include Sbisa. They didn't send him back to junior, but then Lava is playing him as 4th line winger role near the end of his rookie year. Totally unacceptable. Coots last year being a 4th center role with abysmal wingers. Why? It would be nice to determine if B. Schenn is a LW or center. IMO, you have to give your prime prospects defined roles once they reach the NHL and let them learn from their mistakes. That is my main concern.
- ravishingone

Exactly. Sbisa should have been sent down to his junior team afetr 9 games. There was no reason to keep him up, and the cap situation was so bad they juggled him around and he never really found his game.

Agreed 100% on Couturier, too. Jesus, one of the primary reasons I wanted Laviolette gone was his handling of the kids like Couts and Bobrovsky

I find it hard to believe he was immovable. Was his contract that bad?
- PhillySportsGuy

No, and he was actually playing really well before they bought him out.

I find it hard to believe he was immovable. Was his contract that bad?
- PhillySportsGuy

I don;t think so. he played solidly, too...it's not as if he was horrible for the Leafs

I find it hard to believe he was immovable. Was his contract that bad?
- PhillySportsGuy

It was expensive for the cap coming down, but you got the feel they didn't even try. Carlyle just wasn't a fan.

It is sad. Because doubling down on the coach is fine, if that's what you're gonna do. But you start flipping guys like Kadri, who is scoring at maybe an even better clip than a young player should, and a guy like Gardiner who isn't a shutdown defenseman but really has shown on the ice that he can produce points from the back end, just because they coach wants more veterans...

Man. That is a tough, tough deal. Because if Nonis pulls the trigger on something like that, you can't even say they were prospects. Those guys are NHL players who happen to be young.
- AllInForFlyers

Elliotte Friedman was surmising that Shanahan's waiting for McLellan or Babcock to eventually shake loose... in the meantime, Carlyle's on a short a leash as possible, and they're no longer going to make roster decisions based on an assumption that he's sticking around.

Exactly. Sbisa should have been sent down to his junior team afetr 9 games. There was no reason to keep him up, and the cap situation was so bad they juggled him around and he never really found his game.

Agreed 100% on Couturier, too. Jesus, one of the primary reasons I wanted Laviolette gone was his handling of the kids like Couts and Bobrovsky
- Jsaquella

Those were firing offenses in my book, and I liked the guy as a coach.

But he had that all wrong. So, so wrong

I think that in the talks, Hextall mentioned that it may require a step or two back to take 3 forward.
- Jsaquella

No honor for Conner.

Elliotte Friedman was surmising that Shanahan's waiting for McLellan or Babcock to eventually shake loose... in the meantime, Carlyle's on a short a leash as possible, and they're no longer going to make roster decisions based on an assumption that he's sticking around.
- Tomahawk

I would have hired Laviolette. For that roster, Laviolette woul be a good coach.

No, and he was actually playing really well before they bought him out.
- Tomahawk

He had a rough strike shortened season, but was humming along before that.

I always found it strange they bought him out when they needed centers. They could have kept him for one more year to see what happened.

That Southern Comfort commercial is scary.
- Giroux_Is_God

That dancing guy is creepy but that Marcos Valle track from 1980 is so dope.

Elliotte Friedman was surmising that Shanahan's waiting for McLellan or Babcock to eventually shake loose... in the meantime, Carlyle's on a short a leash as possible, and they're no longer going to make roster decisions based on an assumption that he's sticking around.
- Tomahawk

Hey, I have no problems with that; both of those guys are excellent coaches. Babcock's the best in the business.

But my goodness. Yeah, you're in a tight spot, waiting for one of those guys to shake free. Just as a fan of the sport, I hope they don't ruin those kids by giving them another season with a guy who just pulled the chute on them because they aren't 32 years old