I'm concerned w/Hartnell going forward as skating becomes more and more emphasized. He clearly doesn't transition well and the battles he does win you along the walls, he often will give puck away w/low percentage play.
- flyguy12

Even with that, there are areas he can still be effective...but it's definitely a valid concern

I hear you. Grossmann being hated for one bad January is not justified.

I haven't really hated a player since Randy Jones, Kyle Calder and Freddy Myer.

I didn't like Matt Carle's game but I did recognize his perfect fit on this team. Coburn, Meszaros, Carle and Grossmann were all reasonably young when first getting here and maybe in their primes.

I didn't hate Denis Telpeko, Andreas Nodl or Mika Pyorela but I always had concerns about how their games would translate to the NHL. I have the same concerns as Michael Raffl.
- SuperSchennBros

If you breakdown their minutes/per point Raffl gets a point every 40 minutes of ice time and Read gets a point every 35:30 of ice time. They both play on the PK and neither gets much work on the PP.

Read played with better linemates overall, but faced tougher competition. Raffl was the opposite as he spent much of his time with Hall and Rinaldo, but didn't have to face top lines like Read did.

If Raffl is given a chance in the top 9, I think its reasonable to expect between 30-40 points with some upside, if he can improve his shot a bit.

I'd rather pay Shea Weber $7.5M than pay Grossmann $2M. But that wasn't an option.
- jmatchett383

No, it wasn't. But paying Matt Carle $5.5mm was an option

lol... Vlad Putin scored 6-goals and 5-assists centering Val Kamensky and the Russian Rocket in an exhibition game.

Video:
http://sports.yahoo.com/b...sts--video-155707735.html

I hope we never see Schenn/Grossmann ever again, for as long as we all shall live.
- Tomahawk

My view point is to keep Ray Emery until Anthony Schultz is ready. Keep Nicolas Grossmann until Samuel Morin is ready. No interest in moving Luke Schenn until he's proven to be dreadful and he isn't. If we move one guy, we've gotta replace him somehow, whether it's from within or free agency.

Many were talking about whether or not they want Dion Phaneuf here. Honestly I think we'd have to really consider it. Timonen vs. Phaneuf we'd have to think about it.

Question for all. Who would you rather right now? Would you rather keep rolling with Timonen and Streit late in age of trade for Phaneuf and finally give Erik Gustafsson a full time roster spot, what would you do?

No, it wasn't. But paying Matt Carle $5.5mm was an option
- Jsaquella

Right. But they were banking on not having to do that. They SHOULD HAVE negotiated an extension with Carle prior to Wideman's deal.

If you breakdown their minutes/per point Raffl gets a point every 40 minutes of ice time and Read gets a point every 35:30 of ice time. They both play on the PK and neither gets much work on the PP.

Read played with better linemates overall, but faced tougher competition. Raffl was the opposite as he spent much of his time with Hall and Rinaldo, but didn't have to face top lines like Read did.

If Raffl is given a chance in the top 9, I think its reasonable to expect between 30-40 points with some upside, if he can improve his shot a bit.
- PhillySportsGuy

How many of those points for Raffl were earned when he was with Giroux/Jake?

If you breakdown their minutes/per point Raffl gets a point every 40 minutes of ice time and Read gets a point every 35:30 of ice time. They both play on the PK and neither gets much work on the PP.

Read played with better linemates overall, but faced tougher competition. Raffl was the opposite as he spent much of his time with Hall and Rinaldo, but didn't have to face top lines like Read did.

If Raffl is given a chance in the top 9, I think its reasonable to expect between 30-40 points with some upside, if he can improve his shot a bit.
- PhillySportsGuy

Its funny how Read seems to not play well with 28/93

My view point is to keep Ray Emery until Anthony Schultz is ready. Keep Nicolas Grossmann until Samuel Morin is ready. No interest in moving Luke Schenn until he's proven to be dreadful and he isn't. If we move one guy, we've gotta replace him somehow, whether it's from within or free agency.

Many were talking about whether or not they want Dion Phaneuf here. Honestly I think we'd have to really consider it. Timonen vs. Phaneuf we'd have to think about it.

Question for all. Who would you rather right now? Would you rather keep rolling with Timonen and Streit late in age of trade for Phaneuf and finally give Erik Gustafsson a full time roster spot, what would you do?
- SuperSchennBros

I'd prefer Timonen, because it's one a year-by-year basis, so you're not tied up long term. So, when/if one of Ghost/Morin/Hagg/Alt becomes that #1 guy, you're not paying Phaneuf $7M for the next 4-5 years. As for Streit, he's probably here for another 2 years before a trade/buyout can be realistically explored.

Right. But they were banking on not having to do that. They SHOULD HAVE negotiated an extension with Carle prior to Wideman's deal.
- jmatchett383

Exactly.

Its funny how Read seems to not play well with 28/93
- FlyersSteve118

He doesn't like the gingers. Racist.

If you breakdown their minutes/per point Raffl gets a point every 40 minutes of ice time and Read gets a point every 35:30 of ice time. They both play on the PK and neither gets much work on the PP.

Read played with better linemates overall, but faced tougher competition. Raffl was the opposite as he spent much of his time with Hall and Rinaldo, but didn't have to face top lines like Read did.

If Raffl is given a chance in the top 9, I think its reasonable to expect between 30-40 points with some upside, if he can improve his shot a bit.
- PhillySportsGuy

Raffl has played one NHL season. Many were in love with Nodl for a little while, who played in the top six many of times as a Flyer. Raffl has to prove himself again.

I disagree that he makes every line better. I especially and disagree that he makes the top line better. Raffl is a good player but he's also playing with a Hart and Lindsay nominee, a pretty good player by NHL standards.

A lot of Giroux and Voracek's points were coming from the PP when playing with Raffl. Not all but most.

How many of those points for Raffl were earned when he was with Giroux/Jake?
- jmatchett383

Dont know, but he played 65 games and I don't think he played more than 20 with them

I'd prefer Timonen, because it's one a year-by-year basis, so you're not tied up long term. So, when/if one of Ghost/Morin/Hagg/Alt becomes that #1 guy, you're not paying Phaneuf $7M for the next 4-5 years. As for Streit, he's probably here for another 2 years before a trade/buyout can be realistically explored.
- jmatchett383

And there is nothing wrong with this. This is fair.

No, it wasn't. But paying Matt Carle $5.5mm was an option
- Jsaquella

That's a lot of money for a second pairing guy with wet noodles for wrists who had the lowest CF% of any regular player on the Lightning this season.

In my case, my dislike of Grossmann was driven by more than one January. The only Flyers I have ever hated are Billy Tibbetts, Ulf Samuelsson, Randy Holt & Kevin Stevens.

I don't hate Grossmann, I dislike his game. I don't hate Vinny, I hate that he's so limited that he can't shift to wing or adapt his game to fit better on the roster. I don't hate Rinaldo, I just wish he could learn some discipline and not give the refs an easy out when he gets a rep penalty
- Jsaquella

Is Wayne Simmonds limited to one position?

I openly despised Mike York when he played here.
- johndewar

I stupidly hoped he would regain his New York form here. He was still reasonably young as a Flyer.

Dont know, but he played 65 games and I don't think he played more than 20 with them
- PhillySportsGuy

And when he was on that line they put up 15 goals. Wow. Imagine if he could finish...

My view point is to keep Ray Emery until Anthony Schultz is ready. Keep Nicolas Grossmann until Samuel Morin is ready. No interest in moving Luke Schenn until he's proven to be dreadful and he isn't. If we move one guy, we've gotta replace him somehow, whether it's from within or free agency.

Many were talking about whether or not they want Dion Phaneuf here. Honestly I think we'd have to really consider it. Timonen vs. Phaneuf we'd have to think about it.

Question for all. Who would you rather right now? Would you rather keep rolling with Timonen and Streit late in age of trade for Phaneuf and finally give Erik Gustafsson a full time roster spot, what would you do?
- SuperSchennBros

Why not try to get better players than Emery or Grossmann? Why stick with the status quo? We already know Grosmann is a limited guy, why not see if you can move him for picks, and get a better guy in free agency? You don't have to sign every free agent to a 6 year deal.

As for the question, it'd depend a lot on what it cost to land Phaneuf. Timonen is no longer a number one defenseman, who can play a lot of minutes. And adding Phaneuf would have zero bearing on Streit or Gustafsson, unless one of them was traded in the deal to land Phaneuf

Given the Flyers organ eye zay shun's dedication to supporting charities, maybe they should give Hartnell away

That's a lot of money for a second pairing guy with wet noodles for wrists who had the lowest CF% of any regular player on the Lightning this season.
- Feanor

And they're paying Andrew MacDonald just $500k less a year

Why not try to get better players than Emery or Grossmann? Why stick with the status quo? We already know Grosmann is a limited guy, why not see if you can move him for picks, and get a better guy in free agency? You don't have to sign every free agent to a 6 year deal.

As for the question, it'd depend a lot on what it cost to land Phaneuf. Timonen is no longer a number one defenseman, who can play a lot of minutes. And adding Phaneuf would have zero bearing on Streit or Gustafsson, unless one of them was traded in the deal to land Phaneuf
- Jsaquella

If they don't make any changes, they'll probably be much better next year. And can you imagine if they give hartnell away? The cup is ours

Raffl has played one NHL season. Many were in love with Nodl for a little while, who played in the top six many of times as a Flyer. Raffl has to prove himself again.

I disagree that he makes every line better. I especially and disagree that he makes the top line better. Raffl is a good player but he's also playing with a Hart and Lindsay nominee, a pretty good player by NHL standards.

A lot of Giroux and Voracek's points were coming from the PP when playing with Raffl. Not all but most.
- SuperSchennBros

Let me rephrase.

From a possession standpoint, just about every line got better with Raffl on it.

Is Wayne Simmonds limited to one position?
- SuperSchennBros

Simmonds has played both wings, provides a ton of production on the PP and is a good physical presence and forechecker.

Unlike Lecavalier, Simmonds was effective with most of his other linemates.

If they don't make any changes, they'll probably be much better next year. And can you imagine if they give hartnell away? The cup is ours
- funmaster18

Yep. No way that being 40 does anything but improve Timonen's speed and stamina.