All things aside, are we trading for what we deem may be too much of a cap hit or are we making a sensical trade for Koivu?
- arvinb316

From discussions we've had, I'd say most, if not all of us, are in agreement that the biggest issue with Koivu is his contract vs. his production. So, yes, in effect, discussing a trade would primarily be to rid the Wild of a "bad" contract.

I'm not necessarily in favor of trading Koivu because all things considered I think a deal involving Koivu is going to be a loser for the Wild. But in the spirit of kicking around some ideas, I thought I'd throw something out there to see where people are really at with Koivu.

I realize Sota was probably just stirring the pot, but if we really want to seriously talk about trading Koivu, I think we have to do it from the perspective of the GMs of the other teams.

If we take the Carolina example, it was rumored that they may want to move guys like Staal, Skinner, and Ward. I don't know this for a fact, but if you're trading those kinds of players, you are likely trying to get multiple building blocks back in the deal. So the only way a trade including Koivu makes sense is if you get something back in the deal that you just can't say no to. I just threw Carolina out there because we had kicked that idea around somewhat a month or two ago and some of those names intrigue me.

Now, if we talk about teams that have have a desperate need for a solid two-way center that might be willing to give the Wild multiple depth players and picks, that's also a possibility. But I think that's a loser for the Wild because it will create a void in Koivu's spot.

I just don't think a trade with Koivu is going to be a one for one deal. Gump mentions Kesler and I don't disagree with his proposal from the Wild's perspective. In fact, if Vancouver would accept that deal, I think I'd take it in a heartbeat. But if I'm Vancouver, no way am I trading what I believe to be a little bit better version of Koivu who is on a more favorable deal for Koivu and Zucker. You'd have to sweeeten that one with more than Zucker. But that's just my take if I'm the Vancouver GM.

I don't have any other teams off the top of my head that might be in the market for a player like Koivu. I'd have to look through the rosters and cap situations and see if any team might jump out. Edmonton comes to mind in terms of needing a solid two-way guy. But Koivu controls where he goes, so we do have to consider that aspect of any deal.

Only way I'd offer up any deal sweetner with Koivu is if we were getting back a player of equal or greater value than what Mikko already brings to the line up. Say if Kessler were the prime target, I would offer up Zucker with Koivu. Would love to see how Zook actually develops, but obviously he's got some sort of bad Ju Ju going on with Yeo, so maybe a good time to bounce him and get something good in return.
- MnGump

I would do that trade all day long.

Maybe for Pavelski or Kesler, not too sure about Staal and that $8 mil salary. That's a steep price to pay, though. If Koivu is as good as so many say he is, why must one of our best prospects have to be included to move him?
- SotaPopinski

OK, just addressed that in the above post as far as including one of our best prospects. But just to be clear, I'm only saying a top young guy or prospect may have to be included if we're talking about trading with a team that is looking to get multiple assets in return for a top-end player.

And I'm not arguing Koivu is so good. In fact, the topic of trading him comes up because he's not elite and won't produce statistically relative to his contract. We're all kind of saying he is very likely on or starting on the downside of his career.

I think teams with established, top-end players that are starting to gauge trade interest are likely doing so to turn those players into multiple blue-chip prospects. So taking Koivu back in that deal is only going to happen if you make it worth their while, which is very difficult to do without moving guys you really shouldn't move.

If you're Doug Wilson in San Jose, do you trade Pavelski for Koivu straight up? Pavelski should be able to get the Sharks a much better deal. Same thing with Kesler - at least that's my opinion.

So what's up with the Blackhawks logos you guys? You two lose a bet in the Hawks' thread?

OK, just addressed that in the above post as far as including one of our best prospects. But just to be clear, I'm only saying a top young guy or prospect may have to be included if we're talking about trading with a team that is looking to get multiple assets in return for a top-end player.

And I'm not arguing Koivu is so good. In fact, the topic of trading him comes up because he's not elite and won't produce statistically relative to his contract. We're all kind of saying he is very likely on or starting on the downside of his career.

I think teams with established, top-end players that are starting to gauge trade interest are likely doing so to turn those players into multiple blue-chip prospects. So taking Koivu back in that deal is only going to happen if you make it worth their while, which is very difficult to do without moving guys you really shouldn't move.

If you're Doug Wilson in San Jose, do you trade Pavelski for Koivu straight up? Pavelski should be able to get the Sharks a much better deal. Same thing with Kesler - at least that's my opinion.
- Chinaski

I didn't mean you specifically, and while those of us that would like to see Koivu moved are more vocal about it, it still seems that the average Wild fan still see him as this great player...which he is not. Like you and I have discussed before, too many aspects of his game are average, and the older he gets the more below average they become. Terrific defensive center, strong faceoffs, etc But we both know that does not and should not warrant that kind of contract.
I think players like Kesel and Pavelski are much more dynamic and excel at more than one thing, so yes, I would include one of our core guys not named Granlund to acquire one of them.
Koivu and Zucker would not get it done. Would adding the 19th pick be too terrible, given the sudden depth at D this organization has?

So what's up with the Blackhawks logos you guys? You two lose a bet in the Hawks' thread?
- Chinaski

I lost a beat awhile ago, but have always been a fan of the Hawks since the N Stars left

I didn't mean you specifically, and while those of us that would like to see Koivu moved are more vocal about it, it still seems that the average Wild fan still see him as this great player...which he is not. Like you and I have discussed before, too many aspects of his game are average, and the older he gets the more below average they become. Terrific defensive center, strong faceoffs, etc But we both know that does not and should not warrant that kind of contract.
I think players like Kesel and Pavelski are much more dynamic and excel at more than one thing, so yes, I would include one of our core guys not named Granlund to acquire one of them.
Koivu and Zucker would not get it done. Would adding the 19th pick be too terrible, given the sudden depth at D this organization has?
- SotaPopinski

Jesus, it would be hysterical to see a deal with the Leafs and then watch them try to sell it to the public with Koivu's good advanced stat numbers. The sheer entertainment value might be worth it.

I wonder if he would waive to go there? Hornery Koivu and the TO media. God what a match.

Jesus, it would be hysterical to see a deal with the Leafs and then watch them try to sell it to the public with Koivu's good advanced stat numbers. The sheer entertainment value might be worth it.

I wonder if he would waive to go there? Hornery Koivu and the TO media. God what a match.
- Chinaski

That would be painful to see. I wonder how stubborn he may be if Fletcher does approach him about a trade. I can't imagine he will go to any non-contenders. Between him and Backy, Fletcher will have his work cut out for him

So what's up with the Blackhawks logos you guys? You two lose a bet in the Hawks' thread?
- Chinaski

Naw, just havin some fun with Sota and the Hawks fans. They're a pretty entertaining bunch over there.

BTW Sota! Nice work on the Avatar!

Naw, just havin some fun with Sota and the Hawks fans. They're a pretty entertaining bunch over there.
- MnGump

Yeah, we're like those old (frank)ers in the Muppets sitting at the small corner bar spewing our BS at each other and they've got one of those three story nightclubs going on over there in JJ's thread.

Yeah, we're like those old (frank)ers in the Muppets sitting at the small corner bar spewing our BS at each other and they've got one of those three story nightclubs going on over there in JJ's thread.
- Chinaski

Nightclubs get old after awhile. Your favorite hole in the wall bar is always the best bet.


And thanks Gump...what is this new one?

If we take the Carolina example, it was rumored that they may want to move guys like Staal, Skinner, and Ward. I don't know this for a fact, but if you're trading those kinds of players, you are likely trying to get multiple building blocks back in the deal. So the only way a trade including Koivu makes sense is if you get something back in the deal that you just can't say no to. I just threw Carolina out there because we had kicked that idea around somewhat a month or two ago and some of those names intrigue me.

- Chinaski

I like Cam Ward, but there's no way he commands a top player back given his injury history over the last few years. The last thing the Wild need is another goalie with that sort of track record.

Staal isn't bad; clearly he's more offensive than defensive.

Skinner is young and very dynamic. If we could prevent getting Ward back, I'm not sure either team makes that trade. I think the best player in that trade is Skinner.

Koivu was on KFAN today and said he was still hurt from the regular season. If that's the case, I want to see a line of him, Coyle, and Nino next year. We do however, run the risk of Koivu becoming another step slower though.

Yeah, we're like those old (frank)ers in the Muppets sitting at the small corner bar spewing our BS at each other and they've got one of those three story nightclubs going on over there in JJ's thread.
- Chinaski

Nightclubs get old after awhile. Your favorite hole in the wall bar is always the best bet.


And thanks Gump...what is this new one?
- SotaPopinski

Just trying to find a better one to out do you, but that's a pretty tall task at this juncture.

Just trying to find a better one to out do you, but that's a pretty tall task at this juncture.
- MnGump

Don't be trying to top Layne

I like Cam Ward, but there's no way he commands a top player back given his injury history over the last few years. The last thing the Wild need is another goalie with that sort of track record.

Staal isn't bad; clearly he's more offensive than defensive.

Skinner is young and very dynamic. If we could prevent getting Ward back, I'm not sure either team makes that trade. I think the best player in that trade is Skinner.

Koivu was on KFAN today and said he was still hurt from the regular season. If that's the case, I want to see a line of him, Coyle, and Nino next year. We do however, run the risk of Koivu becoming another step slower though.
- arvinb316

I like Cam Ward too. His cap hit is high but it's only for two more years. If the Wild didn't have this goaltending issue, I'd be up for trying to work him into a deal. I just don't think it's practical for either side.

Skinner is the guy that really got me thinking about possible trades with Carolina. But I don't think there's any way they trade Skinner for an older player. We'd have to give to get in that scenario.

Ultimately, with those kinds of players potentially on the block, Carolina would be looking to re-stock and I just don't think we'd be a good trading partner for them under those circumstances. I do think it's worth a discussion with them though just to see if something could be done.

I do like that Koivu, Coyle, Niederreiter combination. I think those guys are pretty complementary for each other. Another combination that I thought might be interesting - Parise-Haula-Zucker. Just not sure who plays with Pominville and Granlund in that scenario.

Just not sure who plays with Pominville and Granlund in that scenario.
- Chinaski

Vanek

Vanek
- SotaPopinski

I wasn't going to say it, but it's a possibility. Then we can argue over which line is 1, 2, and 3. From an offensive perspective, if the Wild has the luxury to ice a 3rd line of Koivu, Coyle, and Niederreiter, I'll find a way to live with it.

I wasn't going to say it, but it's a possibility. Then we can argue over which line is 1, 2, and 3. From an offensive perspective, if the Wild has the luxury to ice a 3rd line of Koivu, Coyle, and Niederreiter, I'll find a way to live with it.
- Chinaski

That would give Yeo 3 legit lines that he needs. Fontaine, Brodziak, McCormick or something of the like for 4th line duties. Damn, that looks nice on paper....if only Vanek would come as a bargain

That would give Yeo 3 legit lines that he needs. Fontaine, Brodziak, McCormick or something of the like for 4th line duties. Damn, that looks nice on paper....if only Vanek would come as a bargain
- SotaPopinski

Cooke too. That 4th line would be sick because even though we rip Brodziak for not scoring, he'd fit in nicely for a shutdown line that's in your face all night long. McCormick/Fontaine would be nice to switch up for scoring and grit, though McCormick looks like he may be able to pot 12-15 goals from what I saw.

Anyone catch Russo filling in for PA today on KFAN? He had Ray Ferraro on (about 11:30 in). Ray had an interesting take on the Vanek possibility and why he didn't like it.

Cooke too. That 4th line would be sick because even though we rip Brodziak for not scoring, he'd fit in nicely for a shutdown line that's in your face all night long. McCormick/Fontaine would be nice to switch up for scoring and grit, though McCormick looks like he may be able to pot 12-15 goals from what I saw.
- arvinb316

I'm done with Cooke. Showed his true colors in the playoffs, yet again

I'm done with Cooke. Showed his true colors in the playoffs, yet again
- SotaPopinski

Though you may be done with him, he isn't going anywhere. I'm probably in the minority on this and will probably get murdered for it, but whatever, I have an opinion. I don't think he tried to take the guys knee out to injure him, though I do believe he tried to hit him and it was just a weird play that got out of control. Anybody that's watched Cooke over the course of the season can see he plays a different game than he has in the past. If people can't see that, I'd venture to guess they've watched subjectively as if to say, "I told you so" at the earliest possibility.

Is Cooke really the biggest goon in the game? Lucic is rapidly ascending to the top of that mountain. Not only did he spear two guys with an intent to injure, but he was uber tough during the handshake. Cooke may never shake the reputation of being a goon, but some of what he does is amplified because he's Matt Cooke.

Though you may be done with him, he isn't going anywhere. I'm probably in the minority on this and will probably get murdered for it, but whatever, I have an opinion. I don't think he tried to take the guys knee out to injure him, though I do believe he tried to hit him and it was just a weird play that got out of control. Anybody that's watched Cooke over the course of the season can see he plays a different game than he has in the past. If people can't see that, I'd venture to guess they've watched subjectively as if to say, "I told you so" at the earliest possibility.

Is Cooke really the biggest goon in the game? Lucic is rapidly ascending to the top of that mountain. Not only did he spear two guys with an intent to injure, but he was uber tough during the handshake. Cooke may never shake the reputation of being a goon, but some of what he does is amplified because he's Matt Cooke.
- arvinb316

There's no doubt it's amplified. But therein lies the main issue. He CANNOT afford to make those mistakes, if for no other reason than because he's done it too many times on purpose and accident or not he's going to be scorned.

I dunno, he was fine all season until the playoffs. I think he's done a great job of reinventing himself and changing the way he plays, but I think he has a problem reverting back to his old ways when he tries to ramp up his intensity for the playoff atmosphere.

I mean what can we as fans do about it anyway? He's here for at least two more seasons. Guess we make the best of it.