You're kind of beating the 20 goals scored to death. The goals were great, unfortunately the overall play was terrible.

The Flyers are going to be a skating team this upcoming season, per the coach and new GM. Lecavalier is a subpar skater.

At this point in his career, Lecavalier is basically a stationary shooter, which is a poor fit for the system and personnel on the roster.

The Flyers need more guys who can be good two way players. Lecavalier is not a good two way player, in large part because of his skating deficiencies.

Lecavalier is not going to suddenly improve as a skater, and unless something really odd happens, the Flyers aren't going to change coaches in the near future.

I don't care how many goals he has over his career or how many Stanley Cups he's won. He's a limited player, in the twilight of his career. Even if he has a bounce back season, it's not likely he will bounce back to a 90 point guy.

I'd rather see kids like Schenn and Couturier get an opportunity. They are the future.
- Jsaquella

I asked a question you clearly missed. How easy was it for Paul Holmgren to move Andrej Meszaros' 1 year 4 million dollar deal last summer? How much easier will it be to move a 4.5 million dollar contract with 4 more years for a player you're claiming was terrible last season. Go ahead, allow your mind to run wild. I'm really not concerned of what you want to see, I'm pointing out the reality of the situation. Vincent Lecavalier is in the driver seat here.

I asked a question you clearly missed. How easy was it for Paul Holmgren to move Andrej Meszaros' 1 year 4 million dollar deal last summer? How much easier will it be to move a 4.5 million dollar contract with 4 more years for a player you're claiming was terrible last season. Go ahead, allow your mind to run wild. I'm really not concerned of what you want to see, I'm pointing out the reality of the situation. Vincent Lecavalier is in the driver seat here.
- SuperSchennBros

I clearly said "Don't trade youth and *TRY* to clear out dead salary space".

Meszaros was a player that teams thought would literally drop dead the second he started skating. Lecavalier was a player that has had some set backs in his career, is aging and will hopefully return to some sort of useful form.

The flyers wound up trading Mez to a team you do know that right?
These two types of players are completely different you know that right?
The flyers need to try to build a team throught draft and development you know that right?
You need cap space to sign players to a full team you know that right?
Paying 4.5mil for a player to play on your fourth line is absolutely insane you know that right?

I asked a question you clearly missed. How easy was it for Paul Holmgren to move Andrej Meszaros' 1 year 4 million dollar deal last summer? How much easier will it be to move a 4.5 million dollar contract with 4 more years for a player you're claiming was terrible last season. Go ahead, allow your mind to run wild. I'm really not concerned of what you want to see, I'm pointing out the reality of the situation. Vincent Lecavalier is in the driver seat here.
- SuperSchennBros

How easy is it to move an overpaid, 5th defenseman coming off back surgery, a torn achillies, and a slew of other injuries that saw him miss 91 games over two seasons, regardless of how many years were left on the deal?

Lecavalier doesn't have the injury baggage that Meszaros has. Meszaros had 4 serious injuries in the space of 12 months. Also, let's not forget the salary cap was lowered before last summer, and it will be rising this summer. And yes, to some extent, he IS in the driver's seat.

The trouble is, do you actually think that he would refuse to waive his NMC when he's told he'll likely be centering the 4th line again, because he doesn't fit into the line up?

Also, there is the twenty goals. There's teams that will ignore the other negatives because of the goals, because a LOT of teams didn't have 6 other guys score twenty goals last season. Lecavalier was coming off a less than stellar season last summer, yet had several teams bidding for him, because they can make him fit.

That's the key thing you seem to be ignoring. The biggest issue with him staying in Philly is how he fits in with the roster and Berube's system. He was bad in that system. He can be useful in another role & system.

How easy is it to move an overpaid, 5th defenseman coming off back surgery, a torn achillies, and a slew of other injuries that saw him miss 91 games over two seasons, regardless of how many years were left on the deal?

Lecavalier doesn't have the injury baggage that Meszaros has. Meszaros had 4 serious injuries in the space of 12 months. Also, let's not forget the salary cap was lowered before last summer, and it will be rising this summer. And yes, to some extent, he IS in the driver's seat.

The trouble is, do you actually think that he would refuse to waive his NMC when he's told he'll likely be centering the 4th line again, because he doesn't fit into the line up?

Also, there is the twenty goals. There's teams that will ignore the other negatives because of the goals, because a LOT of teams didn't have 6 other guys score twenty goals last season. Lecavalier was coming off a less than stellar season last summer, yet had several teams bidding for him, because they can make him fit.

That's the key thing you seem to be ignoring. The biggest issue with him staying in Philly is how he fits in with the roster and Berube's system. He was bad in that system. He can be useful in another role & system.
- Jsaquella

Vincent Lecavalier had a cup of coffee on the fouth line. His role on the team and where he's best suited has yet to be determined for next season. Many player's roles change on a season by season basis. I'm not ignoring anything. I haven't closed the door that Lecavalier won't be moved, the reality is, it's not up to me. If it was up to me, he would get a second chance because Lecavalier is still a productive player. It is you who has closed the door on any facts I've stated. Currently Vincent Lecavalier is employed by the Philadelphia Flyers and as long as he is, he will receive my full support.

Vincent Lecavalier had a cup of coffee on the fouth line. His role on the team and where he's best suited has yet to be determined for next season. Many player's roles change on a season by season basis. I'm not ignoring anything. I haven't closed the door that Lecavalier won't be moved, the reality is, it's not up to me. If it was up to me, he would get a second chance because Lecavalieris still a productive player. It is you who has closed the door on any facts iI've stated. Currently Vincent Lecavalier is employed by the Philadelphia Flyers and as long as he is, he will receive my full support.
- SuperSchennBros

Anybody see darth vader and superschennbros in the same room?

I clearly said "Don't trade youth and *TRY* to clear out dead salary space".

Meszaros was a player that teams thought would literally drop dead the second he started skating. Lecavalier was a player that has had some set backs in his career, is aging and will hopefully return to some sort of useful form.

The flyers wound up trading Mez to a team you do know that right?
These two types of players are completely different you know that right?
The flyers need to try to build a team throught draft and development you know that right?
You need cap space to sign players to a full team you know that right?
Paying 4.5mil for a player to play on your fourth line is absolutely insane you know that right?
- FlyersSteve118

What did I miss here? I wasn't accusing you of anything. My post wasn't even directed to you...

What did I miss here? I wasn't accusing you of anything. My post wasn't even directed to you...
- SuperSchennBros

Oh my bad. I dunno why I thought you were responding to my post. Long day.

Vincent Lecavalier had a cup of coffee on the fouth line. His role on the team and where he's best suited has yet to be determined for next season. Many player's roles change on a season by season basis. I'm not ignoring anything. I haven't closed the door that Lecavalier won't be moved, the reality is, it's not up to me. If it was up to me, he would get a second chance because Lecavalieris still a productive player. It is you who has closed the door on any facts iI've stated. Currently Vincent Lecavalier is employed by the Philadelphia Flyers and as long as he is, he will receive my full support.
- SuperSchennBros

What facts have you stated, beyond the twenty goals?

His "cup of coffee" was where he ended up during the playoffs, too, because he was almost completely ineffective when the games mattered the most.

I'm not sure he'll be moved either, because it's possible other teams may well hold the Flyers hostage, because they know they'll be trying to dump him. If he does stay, I hope like Hell he plays a lot better than he did this past season, because he dragged every line mate he had down, he played poor two way hockey and doesn't skate well enough to fit into the style of play the coach has stated he wants the team to play well.

The new GM stated that he'll be looking to move guys out that, in his words "don't fit". He also said that the team is going to have a bit of a youth movement. Those are the facts.

And, I will support Lecavalier as long as he's a Flyer, too. I will root for him to have all the success in the world. But I will be critical of his play when I feel it's warranted. Don't play the superfan card. Being critical when it's deserved doesn't make one less of a fan. Lecavalier played poorly last season. He's not a great fit for this team, coach or GM. If he's still here it is what it is.

Oh my bad. I dunno why I thought you were responding to my post. Long day.
- FlyersSteve118

To respond to your odd sarcasm, there should be no assumption of a player's role on the team until September. The offsesson hasn't even begun. What I do know is Meszaros has to play to earn value to be traded.

Lecavalier is a poor skater and poor in his own zone. Just because he was a great player once doesn't mean he is one now, or even will be an impactful player this fall.

If he is on the roster next year, he likely won't be faster. So if he is still slow, and he is still poor defensively, why on Earth are we fighting about a 34-year-old center who simply isn't answering any of the problems this team has?

Again: The guy can't skate anymore. I wanted him to fit here and be a dynamic player. But he can't skate well enough to do that. He can't defend well enough to change the game that way.

I wish he could. But those 20 goals from last year aren't going to make a bit of difference this fall, when he is getting exposed defensively and can't keep up with the play.

Lecavalier is a poor skater and poor in his own zone. Just because he was a great player once doesn't mean he is one now, or even will be an impactful player this fall.

If he is on the roster next year, he likely won't be faster. So if he is still slow, and he is still poor defensively, why on Earth are we fighting about a 34-year-old center who simply isn't answering any of the problems this team has?

Again: The guy can't skate anymore. I wanted him to fit here and be a dynamic player. But he can't skate well enough to do that. He can't defend well enough to change the game that way.

I wish he could. But those 20 goals from last year aren't going to make a bit of difference this fall, when he is getting exposed defensively and can't keep up with the play.
- AllInForFlyers

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to deal him for a guy like Stalberg. He had a bad 1st yer in Nashville, but he's a LW, decent skater and signed for less cash & years than Vinny.

Frees a spot for Schenn at center, and keeps decent talent for Couturier's line, while possibly freeing up a bit of cap room.

What facts have you stated, beyond the twenty goals?

His "cup of coffee" was where he ended up during the playoffs, too, because he was almost completely ineffective when the games mattered the most.

I'm not sure he'll be moved either, because it's possible other teams may well hold the Flyers hostage, because they know they'll be trying to dump him. If he does stay, I hope like Hell he plays a lot better than he did this past season, because he dragged every line mate he had down, he played poor two way hockey and doesn't skate well enough to fit into the style of play the coach has stated he wants the team to play well.

The new GM stated that he'll be looking to move guys out that, in his words "don't fit". He also said that the team is going to have a bit of a youth movement. Those are the facts.

And, I will support Lecavalier as long as he's a Flyer, too. I will root for him to have all the success in the world. But I will be critical of his play when I feel it's warranted. Don't play the superfan card. Being critical when it's deserved doesn't make one less of a fan. Lecavalier played poorly last season. He's not a great fit for this team, coach or GM. If he's still here it is what it is.
- Jsaquella

Fact. Lecavalier has a no trade clause of some sort within his deal. What other facts do you need?

As for supporting Lecavalier or Grossmann for this matter as long as tthey're Flyers, this couldn't be further from the truth. Heck, I remember the first Sharks/Flyers game where Giroux and Coburn got lost in coverage and because Grossmann happened to be on the ice, you jumped the gun and was quick to blame Grossmann, who was doing the right thing by shadowing Thornton when we were scored on.

I'm perfect fine with Lecavalier whether he stays or goes. For whatever reason many try to convince me otherwise. Lecavalier is still a valuable weapon and I'm fine with him being here.

You can keep promising yourself he'll be moved but your only setting up your own disappointment.

Lecavalier is a poor skater and poor in his own zone. Just because he was a great player once doesn't mean he is one now, or even will be an impactful player this fall.

If he is on the roster next year, he likely won't be faster. So if he is still slow, and he is still poor defensively, why on Earth are we fighting about a 34-year-old center who simply isn't answering any of the problems this team has?

Again: The guy can't skate anymore. I wanted him to fit here and be a dynamic player. But he can't skate well enough to do that. He can't defend well enough to change the game that way.

I wish he could. But those 20 goals from last year aren't going to make a bit of difference this fall, when he is getting exposed defensively and can't keep up with the play.
- AllInForFlyers

So how do we deal him? What is the logical answer to my question?

Fact. Lecavalier has a no trade clause of some sort within his deal. What other facts do you need?

As for supporting Lecavalier or Grossmann for this matter as long as tthey're Flyers, this couldn't be further from the truth. Heck, I remember the first Sharks/Flyers game where Giroux and Coburn got lost in coverage and because Grossmann happened to be on the icr, you jumped the gun and was quick to blame Grossmann, who was doing the right thing by shadowing Thornton.

I'm perfect fine with Lecavalier whether he stays or goes. For whatever reason many try to convince me otherwise. Lecavalier is still a valuable weapon and I'm fine with him being here.

You can keep promising yourself he'll be moved but your only setting up your own disappointment.
- SuperSchennBros

Did you even read what I wrote?

I flat out stated he might not be moved. I also wrote that I would root for him as long as he was a Flyer, because I root for the Flyers-even players I'd rather not see on the team.

And yes, I did criticize Grossmann incorrectly, and when it was pointed out, I rewatched the play & admitted my error, which happened shortly after the initial post. FWIW, I also praised Grossmann down the stretch and in the playoffs, when his play picked up.

If Lecavalier stays, I won't especially like it, but I sure will root for him to succeed, because his success would then positively affect the Flyers.

My criticism and comments on Lecavalier now are not hatred for him, but simply a concern that the Flyers need to move on from him, because he doesn't fit the stated direction of the team and the system they intend to use next season.

Lecavalier would fit in well on other teams. Unfortunately, the Flyers have six 20 goal scorers, all younger than Lecavalier, all of whom are not as limited as players as he is. That's what my comments are about, not a dislike of Lecavalier.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I flat out stated he might not be moved. I also wrote that I would root for him as long as he was a Flyer, because I root for the Flyers-even players I'd rather not see on the team.

And yes, I did criticize Grossmann incorrectly, and when it was pointed out, I rewatched the play & admitted my error, which happened shortly after the initial post. FWIW, I also praised Grossmann down the stretch and in the playoffs, when his play picked up.

If Lecavalier stays, I won't especially like it, but I sure will root for him to succeed, because his success would then positively affect the Flyers.

My criticism and comments on Lecavalier now are not hatred for him, but simply a concern that the Flyers need to move on from him, because he doesn't fit the stated direction of the team and the system they intend to use next season.

Lecavalier would fit in well on other teams. Unfortunately, the Flyers have six 20 goal scorers, all younger than Lecavalier, all of whom are not as limited as players as he is. That's what my comments are about, not a dislike of Lecavalier.
- Jsaquella

I read it. At the same time, it's I support him but...

The situation is what it is. You like many fans have an itchy trigger finger and wait for mistakes to be made for the satisfaction of being right. I like anyone else can see his weaknesses but choose to see where a player can be useful and Lecavalier still can be as a Philadelphia Flyer. We do have seven 20 goal scorers and in my opinion dividing one without adding in an area of need doesn't make us better. if I were Vincent Lecavalier, I would not agree to be traded to the Nashville Predators

So how do we deal him? What is the logical answer to my question?
- SuperSchennBros

To a team that didn't have 7 guys score 20 goals last season. To a team that needs a offensive minded center. To a team that can fit him into their system and doesn't have 3 young centers being forced out of position by Lecavalier's mere presence.

Take Nashville, for instance. They have a coach that Lecavalier wanted to play for, and who designed a spot for Lecavalier in his system when he came to Philly. They also have a need for more offensively inclined players and despite a lot of centers on the roster, most of those other centers can, have and do play wing as well as center.

Or how about Montreal, a team whose biggest center is 5 inches and 25 lbs lighter than Lecavalier? Or Ottawa, whose captain and top center is asking to be traded?

The main issue, agan, isn't that Lecavalier sucks. It's that he doesn't fit the Flyers' system and could well thrive elsewhere.

I read it. At the same time, it's I support him but...

The situation is what it is. You like many fans have an itchy trigger finger and wait for mistakes to be made for the satisfaction of being right. I like anyone else can see his weaknesses but choose to see where a player can be useful and Lecavalier still can be as a Philadelphia Flyer.
- SuperSchennBros

The satisfaction of being right?

I was ecstatic when the Flyers signed Lecavalier last summer. I was very excited and felt he'd be a great addition. He wasn't.

The coach that pushed for him was gone after three games and the new coach had issues finding a role for him. He struggled badly in the new system and every line he played on saw a drop in it's performance.

By the end of the year, he was on the 4th line, playing less minutes in the playoffs than a guy who spent all but one game in the AHL.

And yes, I do support him as long as he's a Flyer...but I still have doubts, because his level of play validates having doubts.

To a team that didn't have 7 guys score 20 goals last season. To a team that needs a offensive minded center. To a team that can fit him into their system and doesn't have 3 young centers being forced out of position by Lecavalier's mere presence.

Take Nashville, for instance. They have a coach that Lecavalier wanted to play for, and who designed a spot for Lecavalier in his system when he came to Philly. They also have a need for more offensively inclined players and despite a lot of centers on the roster, most of those other centers can, have and do play wing as well as center.

Or how about Montreal, a team whose biggest center is 5 inches and 25 lbs lighter than Lecavalier? Or Ottawa, whose captain and top center is asking to be traded?

The main issue, agan, isn't that Lecavalier sucks. It's that he doesn't fit the Flyers' system and could well thrive elsewhere.
- Jsaquella

Lecavalier has to be willing to be trade after signing a deal here. I'm sure it was the plan to stay here the next five years. I'm sure he's not renting. How does his family feel about moving so soon, especially being in one place (Tampa) for so long. Maybe Lecavalier has more pride to give up and go. Maybe management has reassured him they'd like him to stay and work things out. If I were Lecavalier's I would agree to be traded to Nashville or Ottawa or very many none Stanley Cup contenders. Montreal looks tempting but shouldn't they figure out what Subban is making beyond his next contract first? you make it sound so simple.

The satisfaction of being right?

I was ecstatic when the Flyers signed Lecavalier last summer. I was very excited and felt he'd be a great addition. He wasn't.

The coach that pushed for him was gone after three games and the new coach had issues finding a role for him. He struggled badly in the new system and every line he played on saw a drop in it's performance.

By the end of the year, he was on the 4th line, playing less minutes in the playoffs than a guy who spent all but one game in the AHL.

And yes, I do support him as long as he's a Flyer...but I still have doubts, because his level of play validates having doubts.
- Jsaquella

Again, perfectly fine with him scoring 20 more goals in a system he doesn't fit in. Although you ignored the injuries. Good Coaches will find away to make things work. I choose to believe he's a proud player who is capable of a rebound.

I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says Lecavalier.

Lecavalier has to be willing to be trade after signing a deal here. I'm sure it was the plan to stay here the next five years. I'm sure he's not renting. How does his family feel about moving so soon, especially being in one place (Tampa) for so long. Maybe Lecavalier has more pride to give up and go. Maybe management has reassured him they'd like him to stay and work things out. If I were Lecavalier's I would agree to be traded to Nashville or Ottawa or very many none Stanley Cup contenders. Montreal looks tempting but shouldn't they figure out what Subban is making beyond his next contract first? you make it sound so simple.
- SuperSchennBros

Yes, it IS possible that he refuses to waive his NMC.

It's also possible, he gets to camp and finds out he's the 4th line center again, or stuck playing LW, where he's already said he was uncomfortable & not happy about.

It's also possible that the primary reason he signed with the Flyers is because Peter Laviolette was the coach and pushed the Flyers GM at the time to pursue Lecavalier.

Perhaps, knowing now that his coach will be Craig Berube and not Peter Laviolette.

Yes, I'm tossing out theories, but they are as plausible as the ones you suggest. This discussion has also veered off the main problem, which is how Lecavalier fits with the Flyers and whether or not it would be a good idea to trade him.

Again, perfectly fine with him scoring 20 more goals in a system he doesn't fit in. Although you ignored the injuries. Good Coaches will find away to make things work. I choose to believe he's a proud player who is capable of a rebound.
- SuperSchennBros

I'm not ignoring injuries. You're making suppositions-He's a proud player who will rebound.

I'm basing what I'm saying on what I viewed and the statements made by the guy running the show now, who wasn't with the team when Vinny was signed.

How easy is it to move an overpaid, 5th defenseman coming off back surgery, a torn achillies, and a slew of other injuries that saw him miss 91 games over two seasons, regardless of how many years were left on the deal?

Lecavalier doesn't have the injury baggage that Meszaros has. Meszaros had 4 serious injuries in the space of 12 months. Also, let's not forget the salary cap was lowered before last summer, and it will be rising this summer. And yes, to some extent, he IS in the driver's seat.

The trouble is, do you actually think that he would refuse to waive his NMC when he's told he'll likely be centering the 4th line again, because he doesn't fit into the line up?

Also, there is the twenty goals. There's teams that will ignore the other negatives because of the goals, because a LOT of teams didn't have 6 other guys score twenty goals last season. Lecavalier was coming off a less than stellar season last summer, yet had several teams bidding for him, because they can make him fit.

That's the key thing you seem to be ignoring. The biggest issue with him staying in Philly is how he fits in with the roster and Berube's system. He was bad in that system. He can be useful in another role & system.
- Jsaquella

I don't see him waiving being an issue. I think he knows he doesn't really fit in and if push comes to shove they will just scratch him until he waives. Hockey players like getting paid but they love playing the game and do not want to sit for a year expecially Vinny as his career is ruining low on time.

I don't see him waiving being an issue. I think he knows he doesn't really fit in and if push comes to shove they will just scratch him until he waives. Hockey players like getting paid but they love playing the game and do not want to sit for a year expecially Vinny as his career is ruining low on time.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

That's sort of how I see it.

I'm not saying he doesn't have pride and he may well decide he doesn't want to move again. It's also possible they can't find a taker. It is not impossible to imagine Lecavalier still being a Flyer.

I'm simply saying that based on how he played under Berube and in the system that Berube intends to play this season, Lecavalier was a bad fit. He still managed to put up decent numbers, but the bottom line is the fit was bad and Lecavalier was an anchor.

Since Vinny signed with the Flyers they have a new GM and a new coaching staff. A big part of why he signed in Philly was the former coach.

Yes, it IS possible that he refuses to waive his NMC.

It's also possible, he gets to camp and finds out he's the 4th line center again, or stuck playing LW, where he's already said he was uncomfortable & not happy about.

It's also possible that the primary reason he signed with the Flyers is because Peter Laviolette was the coach and pushed the Flyers GM at the time to pursue Lecavalier.

Perhaps, knowing now that his coach will be Craig Berube and not Peter Laviolette.

Yes, I'm tossing out theories, but they are as plausible as the ones you suggest. This discussion has also veered off the main problem, which is how Lecavalier fits with the Flyers and whether or not it would be a good idea to trade him.
- Jsaquella

What your doing, like many is allowing your mind to run wild. Scratch him until he decides to leave? You didn't say it but another fan allowing his mind to run wild just did. Lecavalier didn't play well but was it the system he couldn't fit into or was he trying to play through injury? Perhaps both? If the injury was any part of it, then Lecavalier can definitely be better.