This post is so offbase, it disgusts me.
- KINGKENZO

how so? is it not true that the flyers have almost no nhl claiber talent in their system or that they are an average team?

yes but how does that injury make all the prospect lose their talent? my point is that everybody seems to agree that the flyers have an ultra weak system and i think that falls at the feet of the gm. if any of those teams lost those players chances are they would have 1 or 2 guys that would be in the system that would contribute, if not step in and be above average. the flyers don't have that
- hogweed

Most of their young players are playing in the nhl... How is that weak? Would you prefer Schenn and couts to be playing in the ahl? A lot of their guys are not eligible to play in the ahl yet ghost morin hagg Laughton. Unfortunately we can't say holm green is bad until yew see those guys pan out or not

I'm a fan, although Schenn's played his best hockey with Kimmo and Coburn. I know it would be a nice transition for Alt to play with a vet like him, so I'd prefer to see:

Schenn-Coburn
Streit-AMac
Timonen-Alt
Lauridsen
- jmatchett383

No way Schenn struggled without AMac Keep em together. If we move anyone we might as well move Coburn for a decent return. Guy is past his prime and he won't get any better. He is a 4th - 6th Dman in reality. We have enough of those.

how so? is it not true that the flyers have almost no nhl claiber talent in their system or that they are an average team?
- hogweed

Flyers have plenty of NHL talent in their system problem is they don't have much in terms of prospects in the minor league system unless we have a Datsyuk and Zetterberg hidden somewhere.

If we move anyone we might as well move Coburn for a decent return. Guy is past his prime and he won't get any better. He is a 4th - 6th Dman in reality. We have enough of those.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

This is complete nonsense.

This is complete nonsense.
- Feanor

Just let it happen

This post is so offbase, it disgusts me.
- KINGKENZO

Any rebuttal?

Most of their young players are playing in the nhl... How is that weak? Would you prefer Schenn and couts to be playing in the ahl? A lot of their guys are not eligible to play in the ahl yet ghost morin hagg Laughton. Unfortunately we can't say holm green is bad until yew see those guys pan out or not
- PhillaBully

the phantoms are bad, the flyers are average and none of those guys you mention are slam dunk nhl players let alone top 6 forward/top pairing d.

....and haag played in the ahl after he signed his elc

This is complete nonsense.
- Feanor

Coburn really was solid this year. He's not perfect, but he does so much heavy lifting for them it's ridiculous

Any rebuttal?
- Just5

i asked what part was so off base. the flyers are not great, the phantoms are not good. pronger's injury hurt the poop out of the flyers but does not explain the lack of depth in the org

i asked what part was so off base. the flyers are not great, the phantoms are not good. pronger's injury hurt the poop out of the flyers but does not explain the lack of depth in the org
- hogweed

The Pronger trade doesn't excuse their poor draft record after the 1st round. I agree with pretty much all of your original post. I give Holmgren a "C+" for his tenure.

the phantoms are bad, the flyers are average and none of those guys you mention are slam dunk nhl players let alone top 6 forward/top pairing d.

....and haag played in the ahl after he signed his elc
- hogweed

If you believe the young forwards on the roster (Coots, B. Schenn, Raffl) have reached their ceiling, then I guess you would call them average. I for one am not ready to believe they have reached their full potential. Also, as Bill has written many times, goalies take longer to develop and with Mason being only 25, I don't believe he has reached his ceiling.

Btw, didn't Hagg play like 4 games and Ghost 2 games with the Phantoms? Also, MAB was well on his way to being in the top 6 in the NHL before concussions ruined his career. However, a lot is riding on at least 3 of the 4 blueline prospects (Alt, Haag, Morin, and Ghost) making it to the big club over the next two years.

I will agree with you the organization has to do a better job of evaluating talent to replenish the cupboard. Homer did a better job then Clarke. Granted, that isn't saying much. I believe the time was right for Homer to step down. Hextall's main task is to draft better outside of the first round. Historically, they have hit very well in the first round, the rest of the draft, not so much.

If you believe the young forwards on the roster (Coots, B. Schenn, Raffl) have reached their ceiling, then I guess you would call them average. I for one am not ready to believe they have reached their full potential. Also, as Bill has written many times, goalies take longer to develop and with Mason being only 25, I don't believe he has reached his ceiling.

Btw, didn't Haag play like 4 games and Ghost 2 games with the Phantoms? Also, MAB was well on his way to being in the top 6 in the NHL before concussions ruined his career. However, a lot is riding on at least 3 of the 4 blueline prospects (Alt, Haag, Morin, and Ghost) making it to the big club over the next two years.

I will agree with you the organization has to do a better job of evaluating talent to replenish the cupboard. Homer did a better job then Clarke. Granted, that isn't saying much. I believe the time was right for Homer to step down. Hextall's main task is to draft better outside of the first round. Historically, they have hit very well in the first round, the rest of the draft, not so much.
- ravishingone

there are 3 sides to holmgren's tenure: the good, the bad, and the unexpected.

he's basically made the team over at least twice since assuming the gm position.
the early version with hartnell, lupul, upshall, umbergler, briere etc...and then again with simmonds, voracek, coots, schenn, mason etc by moving fric and frac. there's a little transition in there with bob/bryz and some other guys. amidst all of that change, they've been competitive and made the playoffs, and had the lockout not happened, would have made the playoffs last year as well. let's not forget the coaching changes too.

he turned the team around quickly, and they've reached an ECF and a SCF in the process. at the same time he's signed several players for too much money, for too many years, with limited ability to move them, not handled the goalie situation very well, until recently, swung for the fences and missed on some free agents and therefore not replacing the unexpected loss of pronger. the cupboard seems a bit bare, BUT there are a handful of prospects being groomed right now in all three positions, and he landed a viable, #1 goalie in mason. they also found raffl in the haystack, not to mention read.

if i had to grade him, overall, i'd give him a B or B-. he could have done a lot worse. if they had just another bounce or two go their way, they could have won the cup in 2010, but even if they had won, this is a what have you done for me lately world, so....look at shero. he's out on his ass.

there are 3 sides to holmgren's tenure: the good, the bad, and the unexpected.

he's basically made the team over at least twice since assuming the gm position.
the early version with hartnell, lupul, upshall, umbergler, briere etc...and then again with simmonds, voracek, coots, schenn, mason etc by moving fric and frac. there's a little transition in there with bob/bryz and some other guys. amidst all of that change, they've been competitive and made the playoffs, and had the lockout not happened, would have made the playoffs last year as well. let's not forget the coaching changes too.

he turned the team around quickly, and they've reached an ECF and a SCF in the process. at the same time he's signed several players for too much money, for too many years, with limited ability to move them, not handled the goalie situation very well, until recently, swung for the fences and missed on some free agents and therefore not replacing the unexpected loss of pronger. the cupboard seems a bit bare, BUT there are a handful of prospects being groomed right now in all three positions, and he landed a viable, #1 goalie in mason. they also found raffl in the haystack, not to mention read.

if i had to grade him, overall, i'd give him a B or B-. he could have done a lot worse. if they had just another bounce or two go their way, they could have won the cup in 2010, but even if they had won, this is a what have you done for me lately world, so....look at shero. he's out on his ass.
- hammarby31

I agree with your analysis. Strangely, I'm more concerned about the issues with LW then I am on defense. They really need to find a winger who can score off the rush then just working hard to get to the front of the net for a tip or rebound. I'm pretty sure Hexy is going to give an opportunity for the kids to crack the top 6. However, there is not a prospect right now in the organization, you would label a sniper.

I agree with your analysis. Strangely, I'm more concerned about the issues with LW then I am on defense. They really need to find a winger who can score off the rush then just working hard to get to the front of the net for a tip or rebound. I'm pretty sure Hexy is going to give an opportunity for the kids to crack the top 6. However, there is not a prospect right now in the organization, you would label a sniper.
- ravishingone

Why is everyone so obsessed with getting a pure sniper? The Flyers score enough goals. They've never had trouble scoring. Being in the bottom 3rd in goals against is a much bigger problem.

Everyone should get off of this website and lay outside and look at the meteors.

That's what I'll be doing. Beer in hand and Pink Floyd in ear.

Everyone should get off of this website and lay outside and look at the meteors.

That's what I'll be doing. Beer in hand and Pink Floyd in ear.
- Giroux_Is_God

come down the shore. I'm chillin' outside with my fire pit

tyler Johnson just signed a 3/$10. What does that mean relative to what Schenn might want?

Why is everyone so obsessed with getting a pure sniper? The Flyers score enough goals. They've never had trouble scoring. Being in the bottom 3rd in goals against is a much bigger problem.
- PhillySportsGuy

For the sake of discussion, not trolling, how good was that offense in the first round? The team's best option at LW right now is Hartnell, who is 32 and has played a lot of hockey as a power forward. When does he turn into a Lecavalier situation with a massive erosion of skill? This past year, he was okay. I would consider that an area of concern. As history has already shown us, it isn't easy for centers to move to wing. Also, I don't think the solution is just to move someone over from the right side and expect it to be a smooth transition.

For the sake of discussion, not trolling, how good was that offense in the first round? The team's best option at LW right now is Hartnell, who is 32 and has played a lot of hockey as a power forward. When does he turn into a Lecavalier situation with a massive erosion of skill? This past year, he was okay. I would consider that an area of concern. As history has already shown us, it isn't easy for centers to move to wing. Also, I don't think the solution is just to move someone over from the right side and expect it to be a smooth transition.
- ravishingone

The Flyers couldn't score because they lacked depth throughout the lineup. I don't see how giving up assets or using all available cap space on a top line player will help their depth. Giroux has managed to be the NHL's leading scorer over the past 4 years without a sniping LW. Our top line is just fine. Try filling out the rest of the lineup to add depth. That way, when teams focus on Giroux, they can beat them with other players.

For the sake of discussion, not trolling, how good was that offense in the first round? The team's best option at LW right now is Hartnell, who is 32 and has played a lot of hockey as a power forward. When does he turn into a Lecavalier situation with a massive erosion of skill? This past year, he was okay. I would consider that an area of concern. As history has already shown us, it isn't easy for centers to move to wing. Also, I don't think the solution is just to move someone over from the right side and expect it to be a smooth transition.
- ravishingone

Their left wing depth is

Hartnell
Raffl
Rinaldo

Yikes. And your right. The answer isn't to move someone over from the right side. That's why if there is a UFA signing of significance this summer I'd like J Jokinen. He will probably get 4 years. Got to pay to play, but he would address the puck carrying issue on our 2nd line and would help in the shootout. If we can somehow move Vinny, with retaining minimal salary. I say lets go for it. There is no one on the farm that's going to help this team LW wise.

come down the shore. I'm chillin' outside with my fire pit
- PhillySportsGuy

Honestly, I would if I wasn't 3 hours away and no I'm not even close to joking

Honestly, I would if I wasn't 3 hours away and no I'm not even close to joking
- Giroux_Is_God

It may take you 6 hours. There was a huge accident just across the WW bridge. They closed everything down. It took my friends 4 hours to get down the shore from Philly.

The Flyers couldn't score because they lacked depth throughout the lineup. I don't see how giving up assets or using all available cap space on a top line player will help their depth. Giroux has managed to be the NHL's leading scorer over the past 4 years without a sniping LW. Our top line is just fine. Try filling out the rest of the lineup to add depth. That way, when teams focus on Giroux, they can beat them with other players.
- PhillySportsGuy

Personally, I would rather see Voracek and G split up at even strength. Move up Simmonds with G, and have Voracek and Hartnell with B. Schenn. So teams can't have their top pairing d-men constantly covering the Flyers two best forwards.

Yes, this team has been able to score goals. However, there 5 on 5 ability to score goals the last couple of years has not been good enough. This team relies way too much on its PP to score goals. I believe LW is a problem.

Their left wing depth is

Hartnell
Raffl
Rinaldo

Yikes. And your right. The answer isn't to move someone over from the right side. That's why if there is a UFA signing of significance this summer I'd like J Jokinen. He will probably get 4 years. Got to pay to play, but he would address the puck carrying issue on our 2nd line and would help in the shootout. If we can somehow move Vinny, with retaining minimal salary. I say lets go for it. There is no one on the farm that's going to help this team LW wise.
- Just5

Jokinen may end up being too expensive, but adding a 2nd/3rd line LW would be ideal. The idea of moving salary and committing a ton of money to Moulson or Vanek is unappealing to me.