[quote=3flyerkids]

I would like to keep Luke. I joke around about him, but I still think he has potential to be a top 4 dman. He's been a top 4 dman before. He just needs to find consistency. I'm hoping he does at some point.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take Myers. I'm just against trading Coburn for him. Coburn is in his prime for another 5 years. There is a decent chance Myers never becomes as good as Coburn.

Schenn or Myers?
- PhillySportsGuy

Both lol, although Schenn at least had points in his career when he was OK/good... Myers is way out in Jack Johnson/Jared Cowen country.

If this is our top 4 & Grossman & "Gots to be here" on 5&6, we do not make the playoffs.
- puckhead17

I would like to switch out Grossmann for a more possession driven defenseman. I don't completely rely on fancy stats and I believe guys like Grossmann play a role. I just think they have enough guys to fill those roles.

Unless your point was primarily the Flyers have to improve defensively 5v5...cause then I misunderstood your point. And agree.
- wolfhounds

Yeah, defensively, but they also really need to take better care of the puck when they have it. Lot of games felt like a game of keep-away, and when they finally got the puck back, they just coughed it up almost immediately.

Man, you guys really don't take Hexy at his word... he's said he doesn't plan on doing anything drastic this offseason, and he wants to promote from within, and he thinks it's important to hang on to picks.

Did we forget that Paul Holmgren's busy managing the peanut vendors now, and his twitchy hand is no longer on the tiller?
- Tomahawk

Its not that i am not taking him at his word. Nor am i in a huge hurry to trade schenn. I still think theres plenty of room for growth and improvement. But you have to give up something if you want a real dman in return. Any dman good enough to improve this team will cost one of schenn, coots, read, or some combo of picks and/or prospects. I will be a fan no matter what team they ice, but hextall knows this d-corps needs improvement! if his plan is to just stay the course and wait for ghost, hagg, and morin, i am fine with that too. But if he wants to improve the team for next year, he's gotta trade a young fwd for a good dman

The problem is, goaltending and special teams and shooting %'s vary from year to year... luck you obviously can't control... the only reliable and repeatable thing you can carry from year to year is how good you are at controlling play 5V5.

That's why you see a team like Toronto look on the verge one minute, and free-falling the next. The foundation of their 5V5 play isn't there.

The Flyers aren't nearly as bad as the Leafs are/were at 5V5, which probably means their "rude awakening" probably won't be as brutal. But expecting to ride 3rd-period comebacks, being able to keep killing off a poop ton of penalties, and having opponents continue to fail to figure out your PP rotations for another season might not be the most guaranteed path to victory.
- Tomahawk

I think you can hope for development from Schenn (without VL) and Couturier as well. I think Couturier is really close to becoming a better offensive player.

Yeah, top 4

Coburn AMac Streit Schenn?

Ahhhhhhh, NO.

Edit, do we make the playoffs with this?
- puckhead17

The loss of Timonen would create a lot of minutes for someone...I really don't mind those 4 dmen. I think Schenn was good against the rangers he just needs to remember to keep his game simple. In saying that the flyers would have to push for a playoff spot as they did this season. It would not be easy. If you look at the available UFA D this year.....there is not a lot there that could drastically improve the flyers D. Out of our prospects I think Hagg has the best chance to make the team due to the fact he has been playing in the Swedish Elite League.

I would like to keep Luke. I joke around about him, but I still think he has potential to be a top 4 dman. He's been a top 4 dman before. He just needs to find consistency. I'm hoping he does at some point.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take Myers. I'm just against trading Coburn for him. Coburn is in his prime for another 5 years. There is a decent chance Myers never becomes as good as Coburn.
- PhillySportsGuy

Its not that i am not taking him at his word. Nor am i in a huge hurry to trade schenn. I still think theres plenty of room for growth and improvement. But you have to give up something if you want a real dman in return. Any dman good enough to improve this team will cost one of schenn, coots, read, or some combo of picks and/or prospects. I will be a fan no matter what team they ice, but hextall knows this d-corps needs improvement! if his plan is to just stay the course and wait for ghost, hagg, and morin, i am fine with that too. But if he wants to improve the team for next year, he's gotta trade a young fwd for a good dman
- mng815

The problem with making a trade like that is the value of young defenseman. If you seek a trade for one, you may end up with another JVR for Schenn. If you want a guy like Shattenkirk, expect to overpay.

Even guys who are flawed and have fallen out of favor (Myers, Gardiner) will still cost an arm and a leg.

The problem is, goaltending and special teams and shooting %'s vary from year to year... luck you obviously can't control... the only reliable and repeatable thing you can carry from year to year is how good you are at controlling play 5V5.

That's why you see a team like Toronto look on the verge one minute, and free-falling the next. The foundation of their 5V5 play isn't there.

The Flyers aren't nearly as bad as the Leafs are/were at 5V5, which probably means their "rude awakening" probably won't be as brutal. But expecting to ride 3rd-period comebacks, being able to keep killing off a poop ton of penalties, and having opponents continue to fail to figure out your PP rotations for another season might not be the most guaranteed path to victory.
- Tomahawk

I think that taking a step back next year and allowing our defense to just play its course will be beneficial in the long run of the team. I really hope that the Flyers do no make any significant trades and that they hold on to the core. If we do not make the playoffs next year, but open up salary and give time for our young defensemen to step up it would be a good year imo.

I would not mind trading picks for a guy like Ehrhoff that can anchor the D until the kids are ready, but other than that I would only be trying to rid some salary in Grossman or L Schenn. I really wouldn't mind Hexy trying to get rid of MacDonald as well.

I would like to keep Luke. I joke around about him, but I still think he has potential to be a top 4 dman. He's been a top 4 dman before. He just needs to find consistency. I'm hoping he does at some point.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take Myers. I'm just against trading Coburn for him. Coburn is in his prime for another 5 years. There is a decent chance Myers never becomes as good as Coburn.
- PhillySportsGuy

Wow just wow. Decent chance Myers doesn't ever become as good as coburn? That's where we disagree totally. I say Myers is way better than coburn now as it is. If you swapped both players onto each other's teams I think Myers would tear it up in Philly and coburn would be exposed every night in buf.

I think that taking a step back next year and allowing our defense to just play its course will be beneficial in the long run of the team. I really hope that the Flyers do no make any significant trades and that they hold on to the core. If we do not make the playoffs next year, but open up salary and give time for our young defensemen to step up it would be a good year imo.

I would not mind trading picks for a guy like Ehrhoff that can anchor the D until the kids are ready, but other than that I would only be trying to rid some salary in Grossman or L Schenn. I really wouldn't mind Hexy trying to get rid of MacDonald as well.
- FlyersSteve118

(everything but Ehrhoff)

Does Tyler Johnson's 3/$10 set the market for a player like Schenn?

Wow just wow. Decent chance Myers doesn't ever become as good as coburn? That's where we disagree totally. I say Myers is way better than coburn now as it is. If you swapped both players onto each other's teams I think Myers would tear it up in Philly and coburn would be exposed every night in buf.
- Sms401

You do realize defenseman do other things than get points, right?

(everything but Ehrhoff)
- Tomahawk

I love Ehrhoff. I wouldn't give up a lot for him because of his age, but I think he would fill the void of what Kimmo used to bring.

Ehrhoff-Coburn is a very solid top pair imo

Does Tyler Johnson's 3/$10 set the market for a player like Schenn?
- jstross

Absolutely it does

(everything but Ehrhoff)
- Tomahawk

Yeah, Ehrhoff is a little older and has a questionable contract (the cap recapture penalties fall on Buffalo in a situation where he retires early), but I think that lowers the price to pay for him. If the defense next year is too bad it could be detrimental to the development of Couts and Schenn, which could be just as bad as rushing our young d guys in. Its a hard line to walk.

You do realize defenseman do other things than get points, right?
- PhillySportsGuy

Yep. Maybe I just look at what a joke buf has been the last few years and give Myers a little bit of a pass for trying to do to much. Plus he's still young. Never played in the minors. Just think with a better team and better coaching his game takes off again

Yep. Maybe I just look at what a joke buf has been the last few years and give Myers a little bit of a pass for trying to do to much. Plus he's still young. Never played in the minors. Just think with a better team and better coaching his game takes off again
- Sms401

Playing for the Flyers as their #1 dman on a bad 5v5 team will make his game takeoff?

I would like to keep Luke. I joke around about him, but I still think he has potential to be a top 4 dman. He's been a top 4 dman before. He just needs to find consistency. I'm hoping he does at some point.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take Myers. I'm just against trading Coburn for him. Coburn is in his prime for another 5 years. There is a decent chance Myers never becomes as good as Coburn.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think Myers is well past Coburn in his offensive skill set. Defensively he would have to be better and maybe Coburn is someone who would work with him. I think they may have played with each for Canada during the World Championships.

Grossman and B Schenn for Myers, if Luke Schenn can show is starting to improve his game with a better team, and I sure Myers could do the same

Wow just wow. Decent chance Myers doesn't ever become as good as coburn? That's where we disagree totally. I say Myers is way better than coburn now as it is. If you swapped both players onto each other's teams I think Myers would tear it up in Philly and coburn would be exposed every night in buf.
- Sms401

Coburn is a rock solid 2/3 dman signed to a fairly friendly cap hit for the next 2 seasons. Take him away and our D, as currently built, takes a massive hit. Adding Myers would be nice, just not at the expense of Coburn, imo.

The problem with making a trade like that is the value of young defenseman. If you seek a trade for one, you may end up with another JVR for Schenn. If you want a guy like Shattenkirk, expect to overpay.

Even guys who are flawed and have fallen out of favor (Myers, Gardiner) will still cost an arm and a leg.
- PhillySportsGuy

a package involving Brayden Schenn for Shattenkirk is what I'd be targeting this summer.

I love Ehrhoff. I wouldn't give up a lot for him because of his age, but I think he would fill the void of what Kimmo used to bring.

Ehrhoff-Coburn is a very solid top pair imo
- PhillySportsGuy

His age and term is a problem... he'll be another albatross we'll be trying to get rid of once Morin/Hagg/Ghost/Alt hit their strides. I like his skillset and his current level of play, but I think there are comparable players who might be available that fit that criteria without the carrying the same baggage/risk.

Both lol, although Schenn at least had points in his career when he was OK/good... Myers is way out in Jack Johnson/Jared Cowen country.
- Tomahawk

I'll chime in here since I'm bored.


Myers statistics were bad this year, +/- is bad and the offensive numbers weren't good.

But here's the thing, nobody is going to put up good offensive on a team where the best pure goal scorer was Drew Stafford. We weren't just bad, we were record setting bad, so the fact that Myers even put up any numbers is its own reward.

He was great for us this year. After having a terrible time under Ron Rolston, he got his ass handed to him by ownership and Nolan got him playing his style of hockey again. He was one of only three real bright spots on that team.

I know the numbers don't suggest it but he was a top pairing defencemen for us. His defensive play improved significantly and the offensive numbers followed (well, right until he got injured).

Sign and trade is my guess. If I"m Hexy I QUICKLY ask the agent, what's the no haggle price and if it's too high, I trade his rights if possible
- twpguy

No, you just sign him to a bridge contract and watch him blossom.