Ugh.

Yeah, I'm more commenting on how Byfuglien would fit, not especially the feasibility of it. I'm not a fan of trading Schenn unless it's part of a package for a guy who is more of a sure thing as a number one defenseman, or for a young guy who has potential to be a top pair defenseman in a few years.
- Jsaquella

I really am not a fan of trading Schenn at all....I've been a believer that the Flyers shouldn't trade Schenn for basically anyone with reasonable availability. The player the Flyers REALLY need is a player who WILL NOT be available: a near-franchise defenseman. Guys like that just are not going to be dangled, and the package to grab one of them isn't worth it. Just opens up more holes/sacrifices the future, both of which this team can't really afford.

I don't know what the price would be. We can suppose it'd be Schenn, but the Jets really don't need his skill set-they're fairly deep with young centers both on roster & in system.
- Jsaquella

It makes me wonder how much the price will be for Byuf considering the move to forward and all the rumors of fitness issues. With a cap hit above $5 million, I can't imagine the Jets wanting to keep that salary on the books for a second line winger. I doubt Hexy would move B. Schenn for him.

However, Vatanen will probably cost B. Schenn. He is an intriguing d-man, who I believe is only going to get better.

Is buff the kind of player you want around these young kids? Forget x's and o's for a minute. Was academically ineligible to play hockey for a time as a youngster, DUI on a boat in '11 I believe. He has a kid but not married, has reported weight issues.

All these things should be taken into account when we have young dmen coming into the organization. Who are they looking up to?

Timonen vs. Byfuglien, I don't think Byfuglien suits this team well for Timonen's replacement at all. I don't think Byfuglien helps improve our team defensively. Streit also doesn't kill penalties much, if at all. I assume Byfuglien won't either. I also do not feel he improves the mobility of the team.
- SuperSchennBros

He doesn't improve the team defensively, in the traditional sense. However, he's better at getting the puck up ice and that helps reduce the time the team gets stuck in it's own end, which can lead to improved team defense...because quite simply, when you have the puck, the other team doesn't. That's hugely important against teams like the Rangers, Devils and Lightning, who feast on the Flyers when they get them stuck in their own end for extended periods.

In terms of mobility, among the currently signed defensemen, only Coburn is a better skater. Streit is average, especially in terms of speed and Grossmann & Schenn are both below average. Unlike Coburn, Byfuglien is a good puck handler and passer. Unlike Streit, Byfuglien is an above average skater and can skate the puck out of danger.

Byfuglien has played on the PK before, and while not as adept as Timonen, can do it.

I really am not a fan of trading Schenn at all....I've been a believer that the Flyers shouldn't trade Schenn for basically anyone with reasonable availability. The player the Flyers REALLY need is a player who WILL NOT be available: a near-franchise defenseman. Guys like that just are not going to be dangled, and the package to grab one of them isn't worth it. Just opens up more holes/sacrifices the future, both of which this team can't really afford.
- Giroux_Is_God

Nor am I. It'd take a significant return for me to move him. I think he will benefit if Hextall is serious in his comments about him being a top priority and key building block.

Perhaps he'll finally get consistent linemates, playing one position and maybe even get a dynamic winger like Voracek.

They can't repeat the bad value trade they made with JvR

It makes me wonder how much the price will be for Byuf considering the move to forward and all the rumors of fitness issues. With a cap hit above $5 million, I can't imagine the Jets wanting to keep that salary on the books for a second line winger. I doubt Hexy would move B. Schenn for him.

However, Vatanen will probably cost B. Schenn. He is an intriguing d-man, who I believe is only going to get better.
- ravishingone

Can the Ducks sell high on a guy who was healthy scratched and shipped to the AHL late in the season?

Vatanen is intriguing to me, though...very much so...looked very good in the games I had seen him play.

Nor am I. It'd take a significant return for me to move him. I think he will benefit if Hextall is serious in his comments about him being a top priority and key building block.

Perhaps he'll finally get consistent linemates, playing one position and maybe even get a dynamic winger like Voracek.

They can't repeat the bad value trade they made with JvR
- Jsaquella

Well if anyone knows the "inside scoop" on Schenn, it's certainly Hextall. He probably dealt with his development first hand in LA

Great blob, Bill. I wasn't around for those 80s teams, but I love reading about Flyers history. Great piece.

He doesn't improve the team defensively, in the traditional sense. However, he's better at getting the puck up ice and that helps reduce the time the team gets stuck in it's own end, which can lead to improved team defense...because quite simply, when you have the puck, the other team doesn't. That's hugely important against teams like the Rangers, Devils and Lightning, who feast on the Flyers when they get them stuck in their own end for extended periods.

In terms of mobility, among the currently signed defensemen, only Coburn is a better skater. Streit is average, especially in terms of speed and Grossmann & Schenn are both below average. Unlike Coburn, Byfuglien is a good puck handler and passer. Unlike Streit, Byfuglien is an above average skater and can skate the puck out of danger.

Byfuglien has played on the PK before, and while not as adept as Timonen, can do it.
- Jsaquella

I think you're forgetting what Andy MacDonald is gonna have to mean to this team because of his new deal. At the same time I think all you've mentioned is asking too much of Byfuglien if he were to replace Timonen. Byfuglien has already been on a terrible team the last few years, he isn't the Jets answer either. I really don't think Byfuglien helps us from being hemmed in the defensive zone much.

Except he isn't. He's big & a good skater, good with the puck and very good in transition...which are all things the Flyers lack on the blueline.

Yes, Streit's presence does bring a bit of redundancy, but given the lack of puck skills the rest of the defensemen (at least those under contract) possess, callign Byfuglien a "bad fit" is really not correct.

The conditioning concerns, work ethic and two way play are all concerns. But he's far from a bad fit.
- Jsaquella

I disagree that it's not correct. Seeing that the Flyers are lacking a true top # 1 defenseman, and a player that can be employed in all situations. Coupled with the fact that the Flyers defense is already made up of defenseman that are limited and suited to certain roles. Makes a one dimensional offensive defenseman such as Byfuglien, a very bad fit for the Flyers.

Well if anyone knows the "inside scoop" on Schenn, it's certainly Hextall. He probably dealt with his development first hand in LA
- Giroux_Is_God

Yep, agreed.

I figured that Hextall's approach to Schenn would be very telling. Hextall was running the draft when he was taken, so obviously he thought highly of him at some point.

I'd really like to see Schenn get a chance to play second line center, and I;d like to see him get a guy like Voracek or Read as a winger, if possible.

I think you're forgetting what Andy MacDonald is gonna have to mean to this team because of his new deal. At the same time I think all you've mentioned is asking too much of Byfuglien if he were to replace Timonen. Byfuglien has already been on a terrible team the last few years, he isn't the Jets answer either. I really don't think Byfuglien helps us from being hemmed in the defensive zone much.
- SuperSchennBros

I don't think that highly of MacDonald, but based on his deal, it sure seems like he's going to be asked to assume Timonen's role moving forward, and Byfuglien would come in and play a role that the Flyers have been lacking.

Asking Byfuglien to "replace" Timonen's all around game would be foolish. But expecting him to help the Flyers transitionally is not, because Byfuglien is a good transitional defenseman-and the transition game is where the Flyers often get bogged down in their own end.

Interesting baseball article on advanced stats. Positives and negatives of what the Houston Astros are doing. Their moves are driven more by advanced stats and saving money.

http://www.houstonchronic...mium&t=307e02ca9cf992f472

I really am not a fan of trading Schenn at all....I've been a believer that the Flyers shouldn't trade Schenn for basically anyone with reasonable availability. The player the Flyers REALLY need is a player who WILL NOT be available: a near-franchise defenseman. Guys like that just are not going to be dangled, and the package to grab one of them isn't worth it. Just opens up more holes/sacrifices the future, both of which this team can't really afford.
- Giroux_Is_God

I agree that the likelihood of the right player being made available is very low. But if the right player does become available, the Flyers can't afford to not make the move.

http://www.houstonchronic...mium&t=307e02ca9cf992f472

Interesting baseball article on advanced stats. Positives and negatives of what the Houston Astros are doing. They're moves are driven more by advanced stats and saving money.]
- PhillySportsGuy

As much as I advocate analytics useage, it's hard to defend basing your entire team building system on them.

Great blob, Bill. I wasn't around for those 80s teams, but I love reading about Flyers history. Great piece.
- PhillySportsGuy

Whatever you do, I can assure you that Philadelphia was not like the movie "Fame" as this commercial from my youth would have you believe. Special Flyers appearance at the 43 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62HBXPbR5aI

Yep, agreed.

I figured that Hextall's approach to Schenn would be very telling. Hextall was running the draft when he was taken, so obviously he thought highly of him at some point.

I'd really like to see Schenn get a chance to play second line center, and I;d like to see him get a guy like Voracek or Read as a winger, if possible.
- Jsaquella

Splitting up Coots and Read is tough for me to do, though.

Always thought Voracek would look good on his wing. Schenn has a great finish, I've always thought, and having Jake on his line creating space and being the pass first guy that he always seems to want to be would gel. Moreover, I want to see what Jake does on a line without G. Not to say the 2 don't play well together, but I always thought they played a similar game- both of which are driven by puck possession. I certainly would not be opposed to splitting them up and seeing what that brings.

I don't think that highly of MacDonald, but based on his deal, it sure seems like he' going to be asked to assume Timonen's role moving forward, and Byfuglien would come in and play a role that the Flyers have been lacking.

Asking Byfuglien to "replace" Timonen's all around game would be foolish. But expecting him to help the Flyers transitionally is not, because Byfuglien is a good transitional defenseman-and the transition game is where the Flyers often get bogged down in their own end.
- Jsaquella

I think very highly of MacDonald. But he has to be used properly. If they expect him to replace Timonen, that is a mistake. MacDonald is a 2nd pair, or at best a compliment to a #1. That's how he should be used. If they overplay him in the wrong role, that could cause some issues.

Any impact that Byfuglien brings offensively, or in transition, will be offset by his weakness in his own end, and his undisciplined play.

Splitting up Coots and Read is tough for me to do, though.

Always thought Voracek would look good on his wing. Schenn has a great finish, I've always thought, and having Jake on his line creating space and being the pass first guy that he always seems to want to be would gel. Moreover, I want to see what Jake does on a line without G. Not to say the 2 don't play well together, but I always thought they played a similar game- both of which are driven by puck possession. I certainly would not be opposed to splitting them up and seeing what that brings.
- Giroux_Is_God

I'd be more willing to shift Voracek than Read. His dynamic puck abilities seem to be a great fit for a line with Schenn. He can do things Simmonds simply can't do in terms of carrying the puck.

Also, Read and Couturier have a sort of sixth sense with each other, especially on the PK
It'll be interesting to see what is out there in UFA or trade to make changes up front.

Interesting baseball article on advanced stats. Positives and negatives of what the Houston Astros are doing. They're moves are driven more by advanced stats and saving money.

http://www.houstonchronic...mium&t=307e02ca9cf992f472
- PhillySportsGuy

I've always thought baseball's advanced stats world is MUCH more reliable, accurate, and applicable than hockey's. It's just the nature of the game...it's all individual. Pitcher pitches ball. Batter hits ball. Fielder fields ball. It's a team game, but in reality, all of it is based on INDIVIDUAL performance. Guys can get lucky in baseball, they can be unlucky....in hockey, it's much more of a fluent, dynamic game that's played as a UNIT. Units are much harder to quantify.

I'm really not looking to get into the argument today. I just think, in hockey, the eye test is the most important way to gauge a player, as opposed to sabermetrics, which should be supplemental at most.

I've always thought baseball's advanced stats world is MUCH more reliable, accurate, and applicable than hockey's. It's just the nature of the game...it's all individual. Pitcher pitches ball. Batter hits ball. Fielder fields ball. It's a team game, but in reality, all of it is based on INDIVIDUAL performance. Guys can get lucky in baseball, they can be unlucky....in hockey, it's much more of a fluent, dynamic game that's played as a UNIT. Units are much harder to quantify.

I'm really not looking to get into the argument today. I just think, in hockey, the eye test is the most important way to gauge a player, as opposed to sabermetrics, which should be supplemental at most.
- Giroux_Is_God

Most of the most ardent stats advocates in hockey fully agree. They readily admit watching the games is important and that there's a sizable element of luck.

Yep, agreed.

I figured that Hextall's approach to Schenn would be very telling. Hextall was running the draft when he was taken, so obviously he thought highly of him at some point.

I'd really like to see Schenn get a chance to play second line center, and I;d like to see him get a guy like Voracek or Read as a winger, if possible.
- Jsaquella

We might see Laughton and ghost with phantoms all year. Nice article on prohockeytalk about how sutter has thought the ahl time for the young kids has been critical in their development. If that's what it takes and if Hexy really pushes for this philosophy I'm on board.

Meanwhile theres leaks from flyers execs about how schenn and coots were bored with their time on the phantoms.

Something needs to change. The deep pipeline approach of Chicago and LAK are the example

As much as I advocate analytics useage, it's hard to defend basing your entire team building system on them.
- Jsaquella

I know. It's so (frank)ed up what they do with their prospects. They have a huge need at first base and they have a top prospect who plays first base. Singleton (formally a Phillies prospect) is ready to be called up. They just don't want to start his entry level deal.

We might see Laughton and ghost with phantoms all year. Nice article on prohockeytalk about how sutter has thought the ahl time for the young kids has been critical in their development. If that's what it takes and if Hexy really pushes for this philosophy I'm on board.

Meanwhile theres leaks from flyers execs about how schenn and coots were bored with their time on the phantoms.

Something needs to change. The deep pipeline approach of Chicago and LAK are the example
- Just5

I'm absolutely fine if Laughton, Gostisbehere and whomever else spend all season in the AHL. I agree with Hextall that it's far more common for players to get their development hurt by being rushed than by spending too much time in the AHL or juniors.

Detroit's done it longer than Chicago or LA has. They routinely let guys get a load of minutes in the minors before bringing them up and plugging them in.