So when Spezza has a deal in place, we can only negotiate with one team. This creates zero competition for trades. We will not be getting a great return. It's borderline foolish to assume that just getting rid of Spezza to open a lineup spot will make this team better. That will not improve depth or help our top lines. They don't need to hit a home run in a trade, I agree, but they need to get decent value back to make it worth moving the guy. If they don't get the package of a player who is young and can play now (top six F or top 4 D), a good prospect, a pick or mid level prospect, there is very little sense in moving him.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Murray won't screw this up, remember the Heatley trade, smooth. The Alfie out of Ottawa mov, smooth, the Redden isn't going to waive his NMC but I'll try and embarrass him in the press move, smooth, the acquire Commodore and then slam him 2 weeks later, smooth, everything a emery related, smooth, hiring AHL coaches, smooth, Kovalev signing, smooth, trading away heart and would players like fisher and Kelly who stated they didn't want to move, smooth, replacing them with

Actually Murray did a lot of the heavy lifting in starting the build of Stanley Cup contenders in Detroit and Anahiem. He might not win the Cup in Ottawa either.
But, the rebuild is looking real good to me.
- spatso

But it's not supposed to be a rebuild, we were supposed to be a playoff team last year, and when we were the25th worst team in the NHL Murray gos into buying mode and gets Hemsky, if I didn't follow the team so closely I'd say Murray had the drinking problem and not Melnyk

Actually Murray did a lot of the heavy lifting in starting the build of Stanley Cup contenders in Detroit and Anahiem. He might not win the Cup in Ottawa either.
But, the rebuild is looking real good to me.
- spatso

What rebuild?

It seems more like a re-tooling.


Your team just traded a 1st rounder, and two good prospects for a 26/27 year old player. Then traded two more picks for a rental.

That doesn't seem like a rebuild to me, but more of a "re-tooling". Trust me, as a Leaf fan I've been tricked by this many times.

We should be treating our 2015 1st rounder like gold. Don't risk moving it unless you know you will not have a chance at the top pick. McDavid is too good of a talent. Chances are low that it will happen, but with the way the team is setting up too look next year, you never know.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

You misunderstood, Gord - he's saying we include a provision in any deal that if Spezza signs, we get an EXTRA first rounder.

So the deal would be Roster player, Prospect, conditional pick (1st if JS resigns, 3rd if he doesn't.)

I have been I die hard sense fan my whole life. But my passion for team that can't and will never spend money to bring in quality talent is dying with each press release from our stingy front office.

So when Spezza has a deal in place, we can only negotiate with one team. This creates zero competition for trades. We will not be getting a great return. It's borderline foolish to assume that just getting rid of Spezza to open a lineup spot will make this team better. That will not improve depth or help our top lines. They don't need to hit a home run in a trade, I agree, but they need to get decent value back to make it worth moving the guy. If they don't get the package of a player who is young and can play now (top six F or top 4 D), a good prospect, a pick or mid level prospect, there is very little sense in moving him.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I don't disagree that there is a point where it is better just to keep him and deal him at the deadline or just let him walk at the end of the year.

But this is a case where the incentives on all sides seem uniform. Murray's first priority is getting back a "hard" player. So, I assume he would be happy if he got DPS type player back on a straight up deal for Spezza.

Or,he can get a mix of assets to allow him to put an offer together to get his hard player. Murray has an idea of what he wants in a team. Big. Mean. Ugly. Time to move forward with the plan.

But it's not supposed to be a rebuild, we were supposed to be a playoff team last year, and when we were the25th worst team in the NHL Murray gos into buying mode and gets Hemsky, if I didn't follow the team so closely I'd say Murray had the drinking problem and not Melnyk
- tuna99

You're right, trading that 3rd rounder and an extra 5th we had sitting around for a guy who lit it up in an effort to try and make the playoffs, then only finishing two wins back makes our GM a total idiot.

You're out to lunch, man.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't really give a poop if the Sens are a playoff team in the east - I care about the team being a contender.

Actually Murray did a lot of the heavy lifting in starting the build of Stanley Cup contenders in Detroit and Anahiem. He might not win the Cup in Ottawa either.
But, the rebuild is looking real good to me.
- spatso

The rebuild is over if you go by the Sens management timeline. We are supposed to be on the uprise right now. Any other moves from here on in are retooling. We have a great core at the moment with good young players. It's what supporting that core and young players is what is weak. Aka depth. You don't need to move a Spezza to get that.

I don't disagree that there is a point where it is better just to keep him and deal him at the deadline or just let him walk at the end of the year.

But this is a case where the incentives on all sides seem uniform. Murray's first priority is getting back a "hard" player. So, I assume he would be happy if he got DPS type player back on a straight up deal for Spezza.

Or,he can get a mix of assets to allow him to put an offer together to get his hard player. Murray has an idea of what he wants in a team. Big. Mean. Ugly. Time to move forward with the plan.
- spatso

But that's my point. Why in the world will a team give up what Murray wants after they have a tentative deal in place for Spezza? Spezza only wants to go there. We can only trade him there. So the other team has no incentive to give a nice package in return. If Murray asks too much, they will just wait until the summer.

What rebuild?

It seems more like a re-tooling.


Your team just traded a 1st rounder, and two good prospects for a 26/27 year old player. Then traded two more picks for a rental.

That doesn't seem like a rebuild to me, but more of a "re-tooling". Trust me, as a Leaf fan I've been tricked by this many times.
- systemtool

No trust me. I was born a Leaf fan. Spent most of my life as a disciple of the blue and white. What Murray is doing is what the Leafs never did. The Senators traded a pile of people away. They have done some great drafting. And, most important, they have stayed in the playoff mix. The Leafs have been to playoffs once in ten years.

I do agree that the jury is still out on the Bobby Ryan trade. Not a big fan of that specific mood. Loved the move to get Turris, think the trade to get Karlsson might be the best move of his career (Luongo trade was outstanding).

The rebuild is over if you go by the Sens management timeline. We are supposed to be on the uprise right now. Any other moves from here on in are retooling. We have a great core at the moment with good young players. It's what supporting that core and young players is what is weak. Aka depth. You don't need to move a Spezza to get that.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

What does keeping Spezza gain us?

Do you feel we have a shot at the cup this year with Spezza? I don't.

Do you think he is going to resign here if we let him play out his deal? I don't.

So what is the point? You're just clinging to a depreciating asset, that won't be worth a damn if he gets hurt.

You misunderstood, Gord - he's saying we include a provision in any deal that if Spezza signs, we get an EXTRA first rounder.

So the deal would be Roster player, Prospect, conditional pick (1st if JS resigns, 3rd if he doesn't.)
- TommyDeVito

That's my mistake. Woops.

Spezza stuff aside, teams should be holding onto their 2015 1st until at least the trade deadline. You never know.

No trust me. I was born a Leaf fan. Spent most of my life as a disciple of the blue and white. What Murray is doing is what the Leafs never did. The Senators traded a pile of people away. They have done some great drafting. And, most important, they have stayed in the playoff mix. The Leafs have been to playoffs once in ten years.

I do agree that the jury is still out on the Bobby Ryan trade. Not a big fan of that specific mood. Loved the move to get Turris, think the trade to get Karlsson might be the best move of his career (Luongo trade was outstanding).
- spatso

There are better teams to use as examples of what the Leafs should have done. Like teams that have actually won Cups or are good teams now. Im aware of the Leafs short comings, and am honest with myself about it. They've stunk. But the Sens aren't my opinion of a model team, so no, don't trust you. Im not a band wagoneer or ship jumper. I stick with one team. Im just not sure you're as honest with yourself about the Sens as you think you are.

But it's not supposed to be a rebuild, we were supposed to be a playoff team last year, and when we were the25th worst team in the NHL Murray gos into buying mode and gets Hemsky, if I didn't follow the team so closely I'd say Murray had the drinking problem and not Melnyk
- tuna99

I think we got spoiled because they made the playoffs two straight years when we expected they would be in a rebuilding phase. This is a very good young team with great size and loads of skill.

Replace the Spezza line with a second line that can break even on the goal differential and they are very close to making the playoffs.

What does keeping Spezza gain us?

Do you feel we have a shot at the cup this year with Spezza? I don't.

Do you think he is going to resign here if we let him play out his deal? I don't.

So what is the point? You're just clinging to a depreciating asset, that won't be worth a damn if he gets hurt.
- TommyDeVito

Clean, accurate, perfect perspective.

can't we do this (in a world where we win a powerball drawing):


- Travis Yost

I just want to get my hands on Wiercioch so he can pair with Barrie

What does keeping Spezza gain us?

Do you feel we have a shot at the cup this year with Spezza? I don't.

Do you think he is going to resign here if we let him play out his deal? I don't.

So what is the point? You're just clinging to a depreciating asset, that won't be worth a damn if he gets hurt.
- TommyDeVito

It goes back to what I said earlier about the Sens mismanaging this situation. It's slowly looking like a loose-loose in either way you go. Having Spezza as a part of this team and brining in other pieces would definitely get us back into the playoffs. The East is fairly wide open. He will be effective (close of point per game) for at least 2-4 more years. Sometimes you have to pay a little more to get a little, which would be what would happen with a new contract. That brings me to if he will resign here. He would have before the trade deadline I think. Now with all of the nonsense, it doesn't look like he would. And to his credit why would he.

It's looking like a loose-loose situation. We either trade him for way less than what he is worth because of the circumstances or we keep him and get nothing for him in the summer. If people are ok with 3rd liners and a mid level prospect coming back to Ottawa for him now, then fine. Personally, I'd keep him and try to mend the bridge. If you can't, trade him at the deadline for a similar deal which would be better than letting him walk.

You're right, trading that 3rd rounder and an extra 5th we had sitting around for a guy who lit it up in an effort to try and make the playoffs, then only finishing two wins back makes our GM a total idiot.

You're out to lunch, man.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't really give a poop if the Sens are a playoff team in the east - I care about the team being a contender.
- TommyDeVito

Yep i can wait a few more years if need be, i want a cup team

There are better teams to use as examples of what the Leafs should have done. Like teams that have actually won Cups or are good teams now. Im aware of the Leafs short comings, and am honest with myself about it. They've stunk. But the Sens aren't my opinion of a model team, so no, don't trust you. Im not a band wagoneer or ship jumper. I stick with one team. Im just not sure you're as honest with yourself about the Sens as you think you are.
- systemtool

That may be what you want to believe. I think that you can get confirmation here from most Sens posters that I not a Spezza basher (I'm actually a fan) but, I advocated the trading of Spezza starting as early as two years ago as part of the rebuild. I also advocated the trade of Alfredsson.

If you take 2007 as the Sens high water mark and 2011-12 as the point of departure for commencing a full rebuild I think they are doing fine. Bonus that they have made the playoffs twice since starting the rebuild and actually won a playoff round against Montreal last year. I like the way they are going about what needs to be done.

That may be what you want to believe. I think that you can get confirmation here from most Sens posters that I not a Spezza basher (I'm actually a fan) but, I advocated the trading of Spezza starting as early as two years ago as part of the rebuild. I also advocated the trade of Alfredsson.

If you take 2007 as the Sens high water mark and 2011-12 as the point of departure for commencing a full rebuild I think they are doing fine. Bonus that they have made the playoffs twice since starting the rebuild and actually won a playoff round against Montreal last year. I like the way they are going about what needs to be done.
- spatso

I know. Of course you do. You're delusional.

You're the Pageau > Giroux guy.

Anyways, for the honest and realistic fans, all the best. Hope it works out.

That may be what you want to believe. I think that you can get confirmation here from most Sens posters that I not a Spezza basher (I'm actually a fan) but, I advocated the trading of Spezza starting as early as two years ago as part of the rebuild. I also advocated the trade of Alfredsson.

If you take 2007 as the Sens high water mark and 2011-12 as the point of departure for commencing a full rebuild I think they are doing fine. Bonus that they have made the playoffs twice since starting the rebuild and actually won a playoff round against Montreal last year. I like the way they are going about what needs to be done.
- spatso

Next season ,i think the last of the vet support up front will be gone .After watching what our very young blueline go through their growing pains last year ,i dont have much expectation for very young group of forwards this upcoming season.

Iam thinking they must be looking to get a very high draft pick next season,not a bad plan .Salt our forwards and draft a really good player the year after

I know. Of course you do. You're delusional.

You're the Pageau > Giroux guy.

Anyways, for the honest and realistic fans, all the best. Hope it works out.
- systemtool

Never, ever said Pageau was a better NHL player or had better NHL potential than Giroux. In fact, said the exact opposite was likely and Pageau would be hard pressed to come close to doing what Giroux is able to do as an NHL 1st line center.

What I did say was their performances as Piques was comparable and that Pageau displayed the same flashes of creative playmaking we saw with Giroux. I still believe that Pageau is destined to be a regular NHL center as is the little Parisian.

But that's my point. Why in the world will a team give up what Murray wants after they have a tentative deal in place for Spezza? Spezza only wants to go there. We can only trade him there. So the other team has no incentive to give a nice package in return. If Murray asks too much, they will just wait until the summer.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Rentals return solid pieces. See Kovalchuk/Hossa deals. They were done at the trade deadline.

Draft deals increase value. The market is very thin via free agency. Thornton/Kesler if dealt will likely go East. Staal's contract devalues him below Spezza and their ability to move him.

Sens are sitting in an adventagous position.

That said some expectations on a return are way too high. A fifty point player, solid prospect and a first is more than acceptable package.

Next season ,i think the last of the vet support up front will be gone .After watching what our very young blueline go through their growing pains last year ,i dont have much expectation for very young group of forwards this upcoming season.

Iam thinking they must be looking to get a very high draft pick next season,not a bad plan .Salt our forwards and draft a really good player the year after

- top shelf 15

Worst move ever by Murray was trading Brian Elliott for Anderson. The Senators were well settled in last place on the day the deal was done. They were planning on drafting Landeskog. But, Anderson won a bunch of games and the Sens went from drafting first overall to seventh in last few months of the season.

Rentals return solid pieces. See Kovalchuk/Hossa deals. They were done at the trade deadline.

Draft deals increase value. The market is very thin via free agency. Thornton/Kesler if dealt will likely go East. Staal's contract devalues him below Spezza and their ability to move him.

Sens are sitting in an adventagous position.

That said some expectations on a return are way too high. A fifty point player, solid prospect and a first is more than acceptable package.
- Cup 06

Agree. A fifty point player with a strong 200' game, especially a physical game would be a perfect fit at the moment. They need to reverse their GA by 35 goals. Replacing Spezza with a strong two way player is a very good start.