This makes me happy. My happiness is completely dependent on others' suffering.
- PhillySportsGuy

This explains a great deal.

This makes me happy. My happiness is completely dependent on others' suffering.
- PhillySportsGuy

I wish I couldn't relate to this sentiment as well as I do.

My only regret about last night's hockey game was not being able to watch the Kings skate around MSG with the Cup. That would have been glorious and the tears of Ranger fans would have sustained me until the NHL draft.

This explains a great deal.
- FlyersGrace

I'm like the Kim Jung Un on this thread.

Yes, he could, much the same as every other team who makes the choices to develop from within does.

Ryan McDonagh, Marc Staal and Dan Girardi all got inserted into the lineup and the Rangers took their lumps. They buried Wade Redden in the minors to do it.

At some point, you have to take the bandaid off and put one kid in the lineup and run with it for an entire season.

No rookie defenseman is ever entirely ready. But the Flyers have to stop thinking that they're so different than every other successful team in the league and yes, insert a rookie defenseman and let them play through the ups and downs that come with being one.
- AllInForFlyers

I think they can offset that pain a bit by having the forwards play better 2 way hockey. Id give Alt a shot and see what he can do.

Yes, he could, much the same as every other team who makes the choices to develop from within does.

Ryan McDonagh, Marc Staal and Dan Girardi all got inserted into the lineup and the Rangers took their lumps. They buried Wade Redden in the minors to do it.

At some point, you have to take the bandaid off and put one kid in the lineup and run with it for an entire season.

No rookie defenseman is ever entirely ready. But the Flyers have to stop thinking that they're so different than every other successful team in the league and yes, insert a rookie defenseman and let them play through the ups and downs that come with being one.
- AllInForFlyers

It would be a huge mistake to put Alt in the lineup, pair him with Coburn, and overplay him against top lines. The best way to start Alt is to put him on the 3rd pair, shelter and limit his minutes, and let him ease into the NHL. We don't even know if he's going to be a full time NHL defenseman, let alone a defenseman capable of playing against top lines.
There is a huge difference between putting a rookie in the lineup letting him go through some growing pains, versus throwing him into the biggest fire, expecting to play against top lines.

I'm like the Kim Jung Un on this thread.
- PhillySportsGuy

A short guy with a bad hair cut who got his job through nepotism?

I wish I couldn't relate to this sentiment as well as I do.

My only regret about last night's hockey game was not being able to watch the Kings skate around MSG with the Cup. That would have been glorious and the tears of Ranger fans would have sustained me until the NHL draft.
- johndewar

Before this series, I told all of my Rangers fan friends this series would end 4-1 because the Rangers are no match for the Kings. They told me the series would definitely go, at least, 6 games and the Rangers were just a team of destiny.

It would have been nice to see them get swept, but if they lose in 5 games, I will have gotten my prediction correct and Rangers would still be losers.

Their misery coupled with my prediction being right will sustain my self esteem for a good week.

A short guy with a bad hair cut who got his job through nepotism?
- johndewar

I'm tall, but yes.

Yes, he could, much the same as every other team who makes the choices to develop from within does.

Ryan McDonagh, Marc Staal and Dan Girardi all got inserted into the lineup and the Rangers took their lumps. They buried Wade Redden in the minors to do it.

At some point, you have to take the bandaid off and put one kid in the lineup and run with it for an entire season.

No rookie defenseman is ever entirely ready. But the Flyers have to stop thinking that they're so different than every other successful team in the league and yes, insert a rookie defenseman and let them play through the ups and downs that come with being one.
- AllInForFlyers

if alt is half as good as any of the names mentioned i'd be thrilled to bits

But there is also a problem that some fans idea of what is expensive, hasn't evolved equally with the growth of player salaries. 4.5M is what 3M was a few years ago. And a 5M cap hit isn't really a big deal.
- MJL

How far back are you talking about when you say "a few years ago"?

If you're talking circa 2006, yeah, $5M would be roughly equal to $3M in terms of cap proportion. But between 2010 to now, the limit has only increased about 10-14%. $5M today = $4.25-4.5M in 2010 cap dollars.

A 4/5 defenseman was not worth $4.25-4.5M in 2010. That was Hamhuis money.

I think they can offset that pain a bit by having the forwards play better 2 way hockey. Id give Alt a shot and see what he can do.
- PhillaBully

At some point, they're going to have to -- Coburn, Streit, Grossmann, MacDonald and Schenn all have no fewer than 300 NHL games played.

They have to be able to suck it up, as a unit, and carry a kid for a season. To what MJL, said, sure, shelter the rookie at times, just as all teams do.

But if you have the defense unit the Flyers have right now, with the experience they have, and you can't insert a rookie for even half a season...if not now, then when?

At some point, they're going to have to -- Coburn, Streit, Grossmann, MacDonald and Schenn all have no fewer than 300 NHL games played.

They have to be able to suck it up, as a unit, and carry a kid for a season. To what MJL, said, sure, shelter the rookie at times, just as all teams do.

But if you have the defense unit the Flyers have right now, with the experience they have, and you can't insert a rookie for even half a season...if not now, then when?
- AllInForFlyers

The defense Being as it is i would go with

Coburn Grossman
Macdonald Schenn
Streit Alt

if alt is half as good as any of the names mentioned i'd be thrilled to bits
- -davies-

To me, you place him in the lineup and begin to find out -- it won't be a linear path. Hell, Alec Martinez for the Kings was still getting scratched THIS season.

But you have to insert one of these kids, at some point, and find out if they are a low-cost answer.

It would be a huge mistake to put Alt in the lineup, pair him with Coburn, and overplay him against top lines. The best way to start Alt is to put him on the 3rd pair, shelter and limit his minutes, and let him ease into the NHL. We don't even know if he's going to be a full time NHL defenseman, let alone a defenseman capable of playing against top lines.
There is a huge difference between putting a rookie in the lineup letting him go through some growing pains, versus throwing him into the biggest fire, expecting to play against top lines.
- MJL

Agree. I feel stupid saying this but in my mind it works. I would mind seeing Cobrun with Schenn. Schenn seems to play better with more minutes. This also allows Coburn to be the more offensvie d on the pairing. I know people will argue schenn is not top pair material but I think it could work. Schenn as the thumper would allow Coburn to use his skating more.


Coburn - Schenn
Grossmann/MacDonald - Streit
Grossmann/MacDonald - Alt

Yes, he could, much the same as every other team who makes the choices to develop from within does.

Ryan McDonagh, Marc Staal and Dan Girardi all got inserted into the lineup and the Rangers took their lumps. They buried Wade Redden in the minors to do it.

At some point, you have to take the bandaid off and put one kid in the lineup and run with it for an entire season.

No rookie defenseman is ever entirely ready. But the Flyers have to stop thinking that they're so different than every other successful team in the league and yes, insert a rookie defenseman and let them play through the ups and downs that come with being one.
- AllInForFlyers

Alt may still need another half to full season in LV, but I do agree with your premise. Coburn wasn't 'ready' when he was thrown into the top-4... he got a chance to learn how to deal with a whole bevy of situations... there were growing pains, but the team had no choice but to put up w/ them.

It depends on the player, though. If it's a cocky kid like Subban who knows he's terrific, spoon feeding him on the 3rd-pair probably won't impact his ceiling. A guy like Alt... maybe you give him a bigger role to start, otherwise he may get pigeonholed into an Andrew Alberts role.

Alt may still need another half to full season in LV, but I do agree with your premise. Coburn wasn't 'ready' when he was thrown into the top-4... he got a chance to learn how to deal with a whole bevy of situations... there were growing pains, but the team had no choice but to put up w/ them.

It depends on the player, though. If it's a cocky kid like Subban who knows he's terrific, spoon feeding him on the 3rd-pair probably won't impact his ceiling. A guy like Alt... maybe you give him a bigger role to start, otherwise he may get pigeonholed into an Andrew Alberts role.
- Tomahawk

Exactly -- yes, it would be tough to see Alt or another rookie not develop.

But what's the alternative? Paying Matt Niskanen $7 million per season -- that's simply not an alternative. That's lunacy.

The cap's going up, sure. But Voracek and Couturier's contracts expire in two seasons, just as damn near every defenseman on the roster's does, other than MacDonald and Streit.

One of those kids, probably even two of them if we're lucky, HAS to be ready to rock two years from now. Because Voracek is getting PAID, and we will all be miserable if Couturier doesn't progress enough to make us all cry with his next contract.

One kid next season -- those other five defenseman have to be able to carry him, in a sheltered role. Some nights, yes, he'd play against the Eric Staals and Evgeni Malkins of the world and get punished.

But that's how you learn. That league's never been any different.

How far back are you talking about when you say "a few years ago"?

If you're talking circa 2006, yeah, $5M would be roughly equal to $3M in terms of cap proportion. But between 2010 to now, the limit has only increased about 10-14%. $5M today = $4.25-4.5M in 2010 cap dollars.

A 4/5 defenseman was not worth $4.25-4.5M in 2010. That was Hamhuis money.
- Tomahawk

Might want to read my post again. I clearly said 4.5M today is the 3M of a few years ago. 2nd pair defenseman were absolutely making in the 3-3.5M range back in 2010. Now those players are getting 4.5 or more.

FWIW:

Dreger: Flyers GM Ron Hextall probably doesn’t want to pay Vincent Lecavalier $4.5 million to be a fourth line player. He is available, and Lecavalier’s agent has spoken with Hextall about a trade out of Philly. There are no teams or list yet.


So I guess he would be willing to waie for right place.

At some point, they're going to have to -- Coburn, Streit, Grossmann, MacDonald and Schenn all have no fewer than 300 NHL games played.

They have to be able to suck it up, as a unit, and carry a kid for a season. To what MJL, said, sure, shelter the rookie at times, just as all teams do.

But if you have the defense unit the Flyers have right now, with the experience they have, and you can't insert a rookie for even half a season...if not now, then when?
- AllInForFlyers

I haven't disagreed with inserting Alt, or giving him a shot in the lineup. I've disagreed with pairing him with the team's top current defenseman, and putting him in the same situations that Coburn is expecting to play in.

FWIW:

Dreger: Flyers GM Ron Hextall probably doesn’t want to pay Vincent Lecavalier $4.5 million to be a fourth line player. He is available, and Lecavalier’s agent has spoken with Hextall about a trade out of Philly. There are no teams or list yet.


So I guess he would be willing to waie for right place.
- J35Bacher

I'll put (frank)in premium gas in my car to drive him to the airport.

I haven't disagreed with inserting Alt, or giving him a shot in the lineup. I've disagreed with pairing him with the team's top current defenseman, and putting him in the same situations that Coburn is expecting to play in.
- MJL

Totally agree. Let him start with sheltered minutes as a third pairing dman. maybe by the all-star break he has shown he can handle more. Best thing I think would be for Alt to play well enough to show he can handle more responsibilities and the guys in the AHL develop where they are ready for NHL. That way at All-star break depending on position of team maybe you can move someone like Grossmann is still there and then Alt takes his minutes with Ghost or Haag or someone else moving to NHL 3rd pair.

Might want to read my post again. I clearly said 4.5M today is the 3M of a few years ago. 2nd pair defenseman were absolutely making in the 3-3.5M range back in 2010. Now those players are getting 4.5 or more.
- MJL

Salaries aren't growing nearly as quickly as you think -- just do the math.

$4.5M today = ~$4M in 2010 as a proportion of the cap.

I'll put (frank)in premium gas in my car to drive him to the airport.
- Giroux_Is_God

He played so well at the beginning when no one else was. In some ways with the injuries and him getting a new coach and GM this season I'm sure he never expected to even be contemplating leaving.

He played so well at the beginning when no one else was. In some ways with the injuries and him getting a new coach and GM this season I'm sure he never expected to even be contemplating leaving.
- FlyersGrace

He did play well. He really did. But that's a hefty price tag for someone who really doesn't have a spot in the lineup