That's #2....Brock
#1...
Espo-Hodge and Stanfield...For Martin-Marotte-Norris

Much worse of a trade....and led to 2 Cups for the Bruins and if the team got more than 4 hours of sleep each night probably would have led to a few more Cups.
- Al

No argument. Espo could have helped here, right Elbows?

Espo's story is he went to a team gathering after they were eliminated in the playoffs with Hull and both were feeling no pain.

Espo went up to Tommy Ivan and said we should win here, we have a vg team but that man will fck things up...And pointed to Billy Reay.

I don't always agree with Espo but he was dead on with his assessment....
- Al

Probably was a bit of everything.

Years ago, Bobby told me it was all about Billy Reay going to management about how Espo was the Tyler Sequin on the team AND when Billy knocked on the door after he came in, Phil telling him to go frank himself....

all the key players on that 66 team felt they lost in the playoffs that year because in the playoffs Reay decided to change up the lines and stuck to it after it wasn't working...
- wiz1901

Wiz at a minimum they need some depth up the middle with an NHL pedigree. At a minimum someone to win draws dig in the corners and preferably + hands.

That's #2....Brock
#1...
Espo-Hodge and Stanfield...For Martin-Marotte-Norris

Much worse of a trade....and led to 2 Cups for the Bruins and if the team got more than 4 hours of sleep each night probably would have led to a few more Cups.
- Al

I started following hockey in the early 70's and had no knowledge of the trade; Pit was my favorite Hawk growing up.

Bad enough Espo went in the deal but Hodge and Stanfield were really good too.

I was making a funny....
- mohel

I know - just pointing out (not that anyone cares) that it was not that bad a deal at the time - Broglio was a very good pitcher for the Cards and Brock hit about .260 in a couple of seasons with the Cubs.

He did have that blow-up on Canadian TV after game 4 (I think) of the Summit Series in 1972.
- StLBravesFan

Vancouver wasn't it?

No argument. Espo could have helped here, right Elbows?
- mohel

Not to mention Hodge and Stanfield. Both were vital parts of the trade.

Martin for Espo? Yeah Espo is better but Martin was a pretty good player.
Hodge and Stanfield vs Marotte and Norris? Think Germany against Poland is WW2. Even worse.

Vancouver wasn't it?
- Beaver-Warrior

Yes. Booed them off the ice.

No that is math and it is awesome.

They bossed Phoenix, another team that had no business in ins WCF and dealtvwith Toews Hossa and Keith injuries. Rough year all around and it was obvious that team was a piece or two away. They are 3 or 4 now and have a bad cap situation again after next year. Time to retool, add some depth and get better up the middle with cash in hand to pay the superstars and the man child.
- fattybeef

Advanced metrics for a whole season is a much better indicator that a smaller sample. That is math and it is awesome.

One reason for that is that it allow an apples-to-apples comparison. Last year's Wild team was not nearly as good as this year's. Last year's Kings team was seriously wounded and not as good as this year. This year's Blues were better than last year's Wings. So their quality of competition this season was much higher than last year. You're awesome math didn't (and can't) account for that.

The advanced metrics showed that the Kings and the Hawks were the two best teams in the league this year, and it certainly played out that way in the playoffs. If you're going to rely on advanced metrics, tell their whole story.

Why does everyone keep reminding me? I KNOW.
- Elbows15

Because we all ya, man.

Heard a couple versions on why Espo got 86'd. Both are centered on the fact that Phil would say what he felt at the moment. One version He mouthed off to Ivan and the other the victim was Billy Reay.
- Beaver-Warrior

Saw one of the Pioneer series on the NHL Network and he mentions the money angle too.

Because we all ya, man.
- Beaver-Warrior

And every year. They were looking for a big center in the draft. Took em 50 years to find one.

Yes. Booed them off the ice.
- Elbows15

Down 3-1 - the fans were a little upset.

Probably married a Mexican hooker and is currently doing the stats on the feasibility of a donkey farm.
- Elbows15

bump for Mo.

bump for Mo.
- Elbows15

Good for him, the bastage....

Heard a couple versions on why Espo got 86'd. Both are centered on the fact that Phil would say what he felt at the moment. One version He mouthed off to Ivan and the other the victim was Billy Reay.
- Beaver-Warrior

Years ago, Bobby told me it was all about Billy Reay going to management about how Espo was the Tyler Sequin on the team AND when Billy knocked on the door after he came in, Phil telling him to go frank himself....

All the key players on that '66 team felt they lost in the playoffs that year because in the playoffs Reay decided to change up the lines and stuck to it after it wasn't working...

As a full blown six team expansion was about to take place the hawks felt that they would let aging glenn hall go and that they needed to fortify the position...the only issue was the Bruins had FOUR goalies who the hawks didn't get....Eddie Johnston, Gerry Cheevers, Bernie Parent and Doug Favell (the last two were who the Bruins quickly lost is the expansion draft and allowed them to keep most of their forwards and the very fact the 18 year signed Bobby Orr was arriving big time.

Someone in the Hawks organization thought Jack Norris was the future and the bruisn sold the very young Gilles Marotte as a tough all around defenseman (which he nevere panned out to be) because the Bruins had too many defenders and figured they could parlay these to with Pit Martin for for two centres (Phil, Freddie Stanfield) and a huge wing in Ken Hodge.

The best player was Esposito by a mile. Pit Martin was a Detroit farmhand that the Bruins ahd acquired earlier and he did have a great burst and was a good generator but the Hawks didn't replace the crease presence that Phil had.

When this deal happened a 16 year old Wiz just couldn't reconcile three forwards with one as the return...

Saw one of the Pioneer series on the NHL Network and he mentions the money angle too.
- Elbows15

Not surprising considering who the owner was.

Advanced metrics for a whole season is a much better indicator that a smaller sample. That is math and it is awesome.

One reason for that is that it allow an apples-to-apples comparison. Last year's Wild team was not nearly as good as this year's. Last year's Kings team was seriously wounded and not as good as this year. This year's Blues were better than last year's Wings. So their quality of competition this season was much higher than last year. You're awesome math didn't (and can't) account for that.

The advanced metrics showed that the Kings and the Hawks were the two best teams in the league this year, and it certainly played out that way in the playoffs. If you're going to rely on advanced metrics, tell their whole story.
- mohel

Shots for alone is dizzying. And fielding 9 forwards vs 12... really?

Absolutely not. Its been 6 years and 2 Cups + 2 WCF finishes. Time to shuffle some of the deck.

Espo's story is he went to a team gathering after they were eliminated in the playoffs with Hull and both were feeling no pain.

Espo went up to Tommy Ivan and said we should win here, we have a vg team but that man will fck things up...And pointed to Billy Reay.

I don't always agree with Espo but he was dead on with his assessment....
- Al

In his book, Espo claimed he and Hull were very drunk at the year end party and Bobby encouraged him to tell both Reay and Ivan they were going to screw the team up. Bobby didn't think he would do it but Phil had a big mouth and would do anything #9 put him up to doing.

The funny part was that the next day Phil went to Ivan's office to get his expense money and talk to him. Ivan wouldn't see him and told the secretary to tell him that he planned to never see him again. And then he was traded.

Down 3-1 - the fans were a little upset.
- StLBravesFan

It was a disgrace. Sorry. But those guys were wearing the National colours. It wasn't like they weren't trying. They were out of shape. And the Soviets were in peak physical condition. And were good.

Probably was a bit of everything.
- Elbows15

The best part of the story and to show you how "loose" things were in those days....As same owners had pieces of 2 or 3 teams...

Ivan thought Cheevers was in the deal instead they got Norris who was a ham and egger and never amounted to anything.

I started following hockey in the early 70's and had no knowledge of the trade; Pit was my favorite Hawk growing up.

Bad enough Espo went in the deal but Hodge and Stanfield were really good too.
- HawkintheD

Pit had a lot of skill...But his gloves were cemented on and in those days that wasn't a good characteristic.

Shots for alone is dizzying. And fielding 9 forwards vs 12... really?

Absolutely not. Its been 6 years and 2 Cups + 2 WCF finishes. Time to shuffle some of the deck.
- fattybeef

Yeah, those four years out of six with great results are a good reason to bust it up, especially when the core is (except perhaps Hossa) still in their prime. Shuffling some of the deck is fine - and happens every single year - busting up the core because the Corsi and Fenwick numbers looked good against entirely different groups in very small samples is silly, imo.

Years ago, Bobby told me it was all about Billy Reay going to management about how Espo was the Tyler Sequin on the team AND when Billy knocked on the door after he came in, Phil telling him to go frank himself....

All the key players on that '66 team felt they lost in the playoffs that year because in the playoffs Reay decided to change up the lines and stuck to it after it wasn't working...

As a full blown six team expansion was about to take place the hawks felt that they would let aging glenn hall go and that they needed to fortify the position...the only issue was the Bruins had FOUR goalies who the hawks didn't get....Eddie Johnston, Gerry Cheevers, Bernie Parent and Doug Favell (the last two were who the Bruins quickly lost is the expansion draft and allowed them to keep most of their forwards and the very fact the 18 year signed Bobby Orr was arriving big time.

Someone in the Hawks organization thought Jack Norris was the future and the bruisn sold the very young Gilles Marotte as a tough all around defenseman (which he nevere panned out to be) because the Bruins had too many defenders and figured they could parlay these to with Pit Martin for for two centres (Phil, Freddie Stanfield) and a huge wing in Ken Hodge.

The best player was Esposito by a mile. Pit Martin was a Detroit farmhand that the Bruins ahd acquired earlier and he did have a great burst and was a good generator but the Hawks didn't replace the crease presence that Phil had.

When this deal happened a 16 year old Wiz just couldn't reconcile three forwards with one as the return...
- wiz1901

Thanks Wiz for sharing that.

In his book, Espo claimed he and Hull were very drunk at the year end party and Bobby encouraged him to tell both Reay and Ivan they were going to screw the team up. Bobby didn't think he would do it but Phil had a big mouth and would do anything #9 put him up to doing.

The funny part was that the next day Phil went to Ivan's office to get his expense money and talk to him. Ivan wouldn't see him and told the secretary to tell him that he planned to never see him again. And then he was traded.
- RickJ

Yep...

Espo tells a great story about Tommy Ivan...

When a player would go in his office for a raise on a new contract...
As soon as the player would sit down Ivan would have his secretary call his phone and he would start screaming about how he wouldn't pay so and so a penny more. He would end the conversation with if he won't take what I'm offering I'll make sure he won't be here.

In those days players would get buried in the minors and would get out of jail when their hair started to turn grey and then would go home and work on the farm or sell shoes. Owners were in complete control.

He did exactly the same thing to Espo before he signed his deal...
Espo was shaking when Ivan got off the phone and signed whatever Ivan put in front of him.