I know we're all getting caught up in acquiring a second line centre and the more we dive into that the bigger the overall changes become. While none of us have eh actual answer it sure if fun trying to figure it out.

I'm going to take walk on the brighter side of the situation and say only minor tweaks are needed. I'm not opposed to other big moves, but I don't expect that to happen. Nor do I think my suggestion is the only way to go. For now I'm just focusing on the forwards, we'll saving the defense for another day.


While we'd all love to see a high profile 2C added to the mix, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen.
- DarthKane

Darth has become a voice of reason

The wild card in some of this decision-making is Stan setting up for the big new contracts for Toews, Kane and Saad so he will have to clear some space - sometime. The question is now or later? Does he do that as part of larger deals this summer or incrementally over the next 1-3 years?

I wrote yesterday that I thought depth tweaks were the more likely scenario unless they really thought that not getting a strong 2C would adversely affect Kane's play and his contract negotiations. If not, focus on rolling out 4 reliable lines - that's where we fell short this year and it shouldn't be that hard to upgrade some of those positions either from within or through affordable signings/minor trades, while maintaining a little bit of cap wiggle room.

It's fun to think big but it's never been Stan's style so it's more realistic to think in this direction.

Or Johns turns into a bad ass.

Doughty, Greene, Martinez, Mitchell, Muzzin and Voynov is not that great but the system works.

Johns could win multiple Norris trophy's but comparing him to Seabrook in any fashion today is a crap shoot...

The way I see it is with Regehr the Kings defense is almost as good as the Hawks ...If I were grading on every aspect the Kings would be 2nd in the NHL.

The difference this year is Muzzin, Voynoz and Martinez are older and wiser...that takes time.
- Al

After the 1st period of game 2 vs LA, I told a guy, Sam Fels, as we were enjoying an over priced beer outside our section, that the Kings D looked SLOW. Especially Greene. I think that's where their chink in their armor is, but Quick is so good at making THE save at THE right time that he bails them out a lot.

I will also add if you were willing to trade seabrook you can't discount how big of a hit that would take to Keith's game. I am by no means a Keith hater, but I will say Doughty plays with Muzzin and Muzzin is NO Seabrook and Doughty is a better OVERALL D man then Keith.

I dont' care if Keith gets presented next week with the Norris. I saw Doughty run a train on Kane and toews for a large portion of that series, where as I saw Kieth badly F UP very fundamental plays more often then he stopped him.

I think he is regressing, by a lot, to the point where Hammer has definitely surpassed him playing on his off side and Seabs is one concussion away from getting Prongered (though i suppose every player is one away but he has a history)
- fattybeef

His numbers don't suggest regression and it is difficult to name 12 better dmen.
Seabrook is Pronger like when good but the concussion theory is a guess....He never missed more than a few days with a concussion and the protocol is so fuzzy I could make the same guess, but more so for Toews.

Seabrook wasn't great defensively in the playoffs this year but in total much better than Keith and really not worse than others. Hammer was up and down to.
My guess is the gas tank was low on all.

If Vancouver was going to trade with Chicago which I firmly believe they will not...Seabrook is one player they would ask for and I wouldn't trade him straight up for Kesler. Hard to find players with his skill set and at 29...nope.

Darth has become a voice of reason

The wild card in some of this decision-making is Stan setting up for the big new contracts for Toews, Kane and Saad so he will have to clear some space - sometime. The question is now or later? Does he do that as part of larger deals this summer or incrementally over the next 1-3 years?

I wrote yesterday that I thought depth tweaks were the more likely scenario unless they really thought that not getting a strong 2C would adversely affect Kane's play and his contract negotiations. If not, focus on rolling out 4 reliable lines - that's where we fell short this year and it shouldn't be that hard to upgrade some of those positions either from within or through affordable signings/minor trades, while maintaining a little bit of cap wiggle room.

It's fun to think big but it's never been Stan's style so it's more realistic to think in this direction.
- bwarner929

Agreed on Stan's style and it was the same with Talon. Fill out your bottom 6 with guys who may need a fresh start....Frolik, Ladd, Eager, etc. and go from there. In all 3 of those trades, they won, and won handily.

That's the sort of trade I am looking for. Ship off some hyped up prospect who wont' bite you down the road, see Jack Skille or Tommo Ruuttu and go from there.

I will say that I firmly expect the Wild to add at least 1 big gun offensively and the Blues to do the same.

Hawks can't be arrogant to think they have a large step up on the rest of the division or conference, because they don't.

Yeah, I addressed this scenario yesterday. You could do it but you only have 4 million to resign Smith, Raanta, and Morin. Assuming nobody goes.

You could plug Smith at 3C. I think Shaw is a wing in the NHL, just my opinion. I think Smith would be a better fit up there with Kane and Saad. Smith can work and win one on one battles down low to come out of the corner or behind the net a lot more then Shaw can.

Bolig and Kruger will dress everynight....and I guess you hope for a few things:

1. R&R...guys rest up and come back healthy enough to make an impact ALL SEASON long.

2. If Morin/Nordstrom don't pan out, you figure out a way to add a large bodied banger, who can skate for the playoffs.

I would love to see them switch out Rozsival for a veteran guy who can play the point on the PP/ Special teams have hurt this team recently and can't be ignored.

As much as I think the Hawks will make a trade, I can EASILY see this scenario and if Bowman goes that route....then it's on him 100% and if this team bows out he has to be held accountable.
- SteveRain

I don't get "plugging" players where they don't belong on a team that is supposedly built to (and is expected to) win now.

I agree - Shaw is a wing - 3rd line - in the NHL; I think Smith is an energy wing better suited for 4th line play.

Putting those two at center still leaves you with 2 NHL calibre centers and two plug-ins. Isn't management supposed to put players in their best position to succeed?

Get two real centers - don't have to be superstars - or even stars - have to be face-off-winning, 200-feet playing, slot-occupying centers so that Shaw and Smith can play where they belong - and, by the way, help solidify your bottom six in the process.

After the 1st period of game 2 vs LA, I told a guy, Sam Fels, as we were enjoying an over priced beer outside our section, that the Kings D looked SLOW. Especially Greene. I think that's where their chink in their armor is, but Quick is so good at making THE save at THE right time that he bails them out a lot.

I will also add if you were willing to trade seabrook you can't discount how big of a hit that would take to Keith's game. I am by no means a Keith hater, but I will say Doughty plays with Muzzin and Muzzin is NO Seabrook and Doughty is a better OVERALL D man then Keith.

I dont' care if Keith gets presented next week with the Norris. I saw Doughty run a train on Kane and toews for a large portion of that series, where as I saw Kieth badly F UP very fundamental plays more often then he stopped him.
- SteveRain

Kings defense is slower than Hawks...But in total they pass well and can score. Doughty hides a lot of pimples....And Regehr was out.

If I were picking a team today Doughty would be the 1st dman I took and one of the top 3 picks overall.

If the only news we as Hawks fans get between now and July 3rd is:

1. Smith/Raanta/Morin resigning
2. Toews/Kane being extending

I will pop a blood vessel. I can see it happening, but I won't be receptive to it. That can't happen. The illusion of "one lucky bounce" away from a cup is there, but you also had 2 series previously where you were badly outplayed and your goalie stole at least one of them, if not both. You also finished 3rd in the division with this same group....

How does the insanity definition go?
- SteveRain

Consistency and playing down to the competition was the reason there. I hate how they can never play a full 60 but they showed during the LA series that they are still one of the elites. I agree they were outplayed in the other series but this team is still damn good. Very good. But they do need to make some trades

If the only news we as Hawks fans get between now and July 3rd is:

1. Smith/Raanta/Morin resigning
2. Toews/Kane being extending

I will pop a blood vessel. I can see it happening, but I won't be receptive to it. That can't happen. The illusion of "one lucky bounce" away from a cup is there, but you also had 2 series previously where you were badly outplayed and your goalie stole at least one of them, if not both. You also finished 3rd in the division with this same group....

How does the insanity definition go?
- SteveRain

As far as housekeeping goes there are three things I'd like to see this summer:

1. Extensions for Kane and Toews
2. Resigning Smith
3. Extension for Saad

I know Morin and Raanta need to be re-upped as well, but they're not a priority.

If the only news we as Hawks fans get between now and July 3rd is:

1. Smith/Raanta/Morin resigning
2. Toews/Kane being extending

I will pop a blood vessel. I can see it happening, but I won't be receptive to it. That can't happen. The illusion of "one lucky bounce" away from a cup is there, but you also had 2 series previously where you were badly outplayed and your goalie stole at least one of them, if not both. You also finished 3rd in the division with this same group....

How does the insanity definition go?
- SteveRain

Insanity can also be dfined as being an over time win away from being in the cup finals and a probable cup win and all the while somehow thinking the team is somehow crap. The Hawks don't need full scale changes, they don't need a top end number 2 center, though it would be nice. They NEED depth, they NEED to have a fourth line that can be trusted to be oin the ice in any situation to balance playing time an allow the Hawk's star players to be fresher.

I don't get "plugging" players where they don't belong on a team that is supposedly built to (and is expected to) win now.

I agree - Shaw is a wing - 3rd line - in the NHL; I think Smith is an energy wing better suited for 4th line play.

Putting those two at center still leaves you with 2 NHL calibre centers and two plug-ins. Isn't management supposed to put players in their best position to succeed?

Get two real centers - don't have to be superstars - or even stars - have to be face-off-winning, 200-feet playing, slot-occupying centers so that Shaw and Smith can play where they belong - and, by the way, help solidify your bottom six in the process.
- StLBravesFan

They are but having guys "accept" their roles is part of the reason why the 2013 Hawks > 2012 Hawks as guys like Frolik bought in.

They need a size at center but not a damn camel like Handzus.

I don't get "plugging" players where they don't belong on a team that is supposedly built to (and is expected to) win now.

I agree - Shaw is a wing - 3rd line - in the NHL; I think Smith is an energy wing better suited for 4th line play.

Putting those two at center still leaves you with 2 NHL calibre centers and two plug-ins. Isn't management supposed to put players in their best position to succeed?

Get two real centers - don't have to be superstars - or even stars - have to be face-off-winning, 200-feet playing, slot-occupying centers so that Shaw and Smith can play where they belong - and, by the way, help solidify your bottom six in the process.
- StLBravesFan

In a perfect world Shaw is on the 3rd line and Smith the 4th. But the reality is that there is no team with 12 forwards playing exactly where they need to be. The salary cap forces a team to juggle the line-ups make the best with what they have. I think the Blackhawks have as many players as another other team (if not more) playing in their ideal roles. The only glaring issues is the 2 C spot.

Kings defense is slower than Hawks...But in total they pass well and can score. Doughty hides a lot of pimples....And Regehr was out.

If I were picking a team today Doughty would be the 1st dman I took and one of the top 3 picks overall.
- Al

They are very good at getting shots through to the net. But they still have 2 slugs back there that commit a holding penalty every shift. Doughty will be getting a few Norris trophies before his career is over. Damn what a great all-around D

Kings defense is slower than Hawks...But in total they pass well and can score. Doughty hides a lot of pimples....And Regehr was out.

If I were picking a team today Doughty would be the 1st dman I took and one of the top 3 picks overall.
- Al

Agreed. Doughty should be Conn Smythe but Williams may steal it.

I never realized how good Doughty was, I knew he was good, but NOT THIS good until this series. he was sensational.

They are but having guys "accept" their roles is part of the reason why the 2013 Hawks > 2012 Hawks as guys like Frolik bought in.

They need a size at center but not a damn camel like Handzus.
- SteveRain

What we really need is for Versteeg to pull a Frolik and accept a more defensive roll. Its a bigger stretch asking Steeger to do this, but if he could it changes the complexion of the team in a very positive way.

Insanity can also be dfined as being an over time win away from being in the cup finals and a probable cup win and all the while somehow thinking the team is somehow crap. The Hawks don't need full scale changes, they don't need a top end number 2 center, though it would be nice. They NEED depth, they NEED to have a fourth line that can be trusted to be oin the ice in any situation to balance playing time an allow the Hawk's star players to be fresher.
- paulr

Like TomD mentioned, they were unable to play a CONSISTENT game. You don't have to be perfect every night, but even in the playoffs.....did they ever play a complete game? I can't recall one. Came close in game 6 vs STL. Outside of that, they were sluggish.

I'm not saying a fire sale....but look at the roster and find spots you can make trades to get the depth you want, which I agree with, and then figure out who goes. It's not easy. They have a LOT spots already locked in.

They do need to find somebody to play with Kane and it can't be Toews. You can't have the kid neutralized by plugging some guy there who is out of his element. Like Shaw or Handzus or Kruger or Regin or Smith. Shaw and Smith he can be somewhat effective, but imagine what kane COULD be if he EVER got a guy with skill to play with him regularly. My goodness......

What we really need is for Versteeg to pull a Frolik and accept a more defensive roll. Its a bigger stretch asking Steeger to do this, but if he could it changes the complexion of the team in a very positive way.
- DarthKane

Agreed but it dont' see that happening. He needs to get back to having his scoring > his idiotic turnovers and playing with the edge. We saw it briefly vs Minny and then it disappeared.

Lets hope he is rehabbing hard and not trying to produce some rap album....

Crazy trade time: sharp and a prospect to Columbus for anisimov and either their 1st or a prospect like Dano or the one I like kerby Rychel (doubt they trade him). Then the crazy one TT, Leddy, and a 1st to move u to a top 4 pick plus getting another player from the team. Buffalo can use a guy like TT. So we get the #2 plus a good young player like johann larsson, Foligno, or my favorite gergensons. Probably take more to get him or foligno

I will say that I firmly expect the Wild to add at least 1 big gun offensively and the Blues to do the same.

Hawks can't be arrogant to think they have a large step up on the rest of the division or conference, because they don't.
- SteveRain

Yup - Blues have lots of cap space (I believe) and Wild isn't that far away.

Hawks have a lot of miles on the core guys so (sooner or later) they will need to add younger skill to step up as the current core ages. And, as analytics gets more advanced in hockey, it will be harder for stat guys like Stan to pry away a top-level prospect or developing young player from other GMs who haven't gotten there yet and are just believing their eyes and scouting reports.

Moves need to be made - it's all about timing and getting value to address needs.

DUH!

Agreed but it dont' see that happening. He needs to get back to having his scoring > his idiotic turnovers and playing with the edge. We saw it briefly vs Minny and then it disappeared.

Lets hope he is rehabbing hard and not trying to produce some rap album....
- SteveRain

If Versteeg can just be a reliable 3rd liner it will take a lot of pressure off the team. If we can get 15-20 goals and 30-40 points while not being a turnover machine I'll be happy.

Crazy trade time: sharp and a prospect to Columbus for anisimov and either their 1st or a prospect like Dano or the one I like kerby Rychel (doubt they trade him). Then the crazy one TT, Leddy, and a 1st to move u to a top 4 pick plus getting another player from the team. Buffalo can use a guy like TT. So we get the #2 plus a good young player like johann larsson, Foligno, or my favorite gergensons. Probably take more to get him or foligno
- tomcat24

I know Sharp has been the favourite trade target, but I would prefer to find a way to keep him and address the teams needs another way. I know it would be much more difficult, but the team would be much better that way.

His numbers don't suggest regression and it is difficult to name 12 better dmen.
Seabrook is Pronger like when good but the concussion theory is a guess....He never missed more than a few days with a concussion and the protocol is so fuzzy I could make the same guess, but more so for Toews.

Seabrook wasn't great defensively in the playoffs this year but in total much better than Keith and really not worse than others. Hammer was up and down to.
My guess is the gas tank was low on all.

If Vancouver was going to trade with Chicago which I firmly believe they will not...Seabrook is one player they would ask for and I wouldn't trade him straight up for Kesler. Hard to find players with his skill set and at 29...nope.
- Al

Eh. He rode some pine last year as well.

Maybe Seabs will only need 7 and not 8 million over 4 years after this one.

I would think Vancouver would want to get younger and adding a 30 year old defender doesn't quite fit that bill. Especially since it looks like they may be doing an actual rebuild.

Like TomD mentioned, they were unable to play a CONSISTENT game. You don't have to be perfect every night, but even in the playoffs.....did they ever play a complete game? I can't recall one. Came close in game 6 vs STL. Outside of that, they were sluggish.

I'm not saying a fire sale....but look at the roster and find spots you can make trades to get the depth you want, which I agree with, and then figure out who goes. It's not easy. They have a LOT spots already locked in.

They do need to find somebody to play with Kane and it can't be Toews. You can't have the kid neutralized by plugging some guy there who is out of his element. Like Shaw or Handzus or Kruger or Regin or Smith. Shaw and Smith he can be somewhat effective, but imagine what kane COULD be if he EVER got a guy with skill to play with him regularly. My goodness......
- SteveRain

Take a step back and look at the kane situation. He was hardly 'neutralized' he was a big reason how the Hawks took the Kings to 7 games. You talk about consistancy, Kane is about as inconsistant as it gets. He plays many games where he is invisible, but that is the nature of goal scorers. Ideally there should be a strong 2 way center on his line but if you really want consistancy it's that 4th line that will provide that.

So has the board come to a consensus on who JJ was referring to on TB that fills a glaring hole on the hawks? Fillipula or Killorn?

My attempt at proposals with Ottawa:

Hawks Get:
Spezza
Smith
Greening

Sens get:
Sharp
Leddy/Oduya
1st round pick

or

Hawks get:
Zibanejad
Smith
Greening

Sens get:
Sharp
Leddy/Oduya
1st round pick
TT

Second one seems to be a significant price to pay, but that is to get a young Swedish center that can fly, and 2 great pieces for the bottom 6.

Thoughts?
- ikeane

Ottawa would never consider your second option. With Spezza moving on they are going to build around Turris/Zibanejad/Lazar as their three future centers. They won't move Zibanejad unless a top 2 center comes back in a trade for Spezza.

They are very good at getting shots through to the net. But they still have 2 slugs back there that commit a holding penalty every shift. Doughty will be getting a few Norris trophies before his career is over. Damn what a great all-around D
- tomcat24

If Regher was in one slug wouldn't be playing.