Leddy.
- Ogilthorpe2

And getting more than pucks and tape for John Scott. Ok not a big trade but may give hope for shedding Rozy and Steeg.

Leddy.
- Ogilthorpe2

Yup...I missed that one. We can argue how good Leddy is or isn't but that was a good trade by Stan.

Absolutely.

This is the summer to have Stan prove the he can creatively improve this team.
- StLBravesFan

To respond to my own post:

The thing that keeps sticking out to me about LA's two Cups is that they had the creativity, aggressiveness, and financial flexibility to recognize their needs and solve them at the trade deadline twice: Carter and Gaborik.

Indicting Stan a little bit, although I can't argue with a couple of his TDL moves - Oduya and Handzus.

But Stan needs to get stuff done this summer - either a 2C - which, IMO, also helps solve the depth problem - or a 3C/4C - solving the depth problem - without creating other holes (Oduya and/or Leddy gone? Need to replace them).

And it would be nice to have some financial capability come next February, to take care of injury situations, or skaters not performing as expected.

Difficult? Absolutely.

Impossible? Absolutely not - it's been done by others.

Creative.

Yup...I missed that one. We can argue how good Leddy is or isn't but that was a good trade by Stan.
- DarthKane

Maybe Kim Johnnson will be ready step into that Top 4 D role next year

What happened to the prevailing thought over there that they were the best d-corps on the planet?
- HawkintheD

What happened to that thought over here?

I know Sharp has taken a lot of heat, but I would rather keep him if it's possible.
- DarthKane

I really like sharp and I think he is still a great player. This playoff run was a freak thing for him. But, by dealing him and a few other pieces I think they could set themselves up for a very bright future as well as still being a Cup contender now.

What happened to that thought over here?
- StLBravesFan

Still think our top 3 is the best though they looked a bit gassed vs LA. Agree with a few others though, even if age wasn't a factor, Doughty > Keith.

What happened to the prevailing thought over there that they were the best d-corps on the planet?
- HawkintheD

That was part of my "ban". I actually challenged the Ranger fans on that absurd notion - I guess that was "trolling".

To respond to my own post:

The thing that keeps sticking out to me about LA's two Cups is that they had the creativity, aggressiveness, and financial flexibility to recognize their needs and solve them at the trade deadline twice: Carter and Gaborik.

Indicting Stan a little bit, although I can't argue with a couple of his TDL moves - Oduya and Handzus.

But Stan needs to get stuff done this summer - either a 2C - which, IMO, also helps solve the depth problem - or a 3C/4C - solving the depth problem - without creating other holes (Oduya and/or Leddy gone? Need to replace them).

And it would be nice to have some financial capability come next February, to take care of injury situations, or skaters not performing as expected.

Difficult? Absolutely.

Impossible? Absolutely not - it's been done by others.

Creative.
- StLBravesFan

It wasn't just at the deadline but their trades in general. They always need players that can score so over the years they traded for williams and gagne and richards and penner played big roles on their 1st Cup. What pisses me off is their cap management. They were able to keep almost all of their 1st cup team intact to win the 2nd. Plus they were able to Add Gaborik and they can still keep almost all their team together for another run this year. Like a poster said last night, after next year they might finally run into trouble. But so will we

It wasn't just at the deadline but their trades in general. They always need players that can score so over the years they traded for williams and gagne and richards and penner played big roles on their 1st Cup. What pisses me off is their cap management. They were able to keep almost all of their 1st cup team intact to win the 2nd. Plus they were able to Add Gaborik and they can still keep almost all their team together for another run this year. Like a poster said last night, after next year they might finally run into trouble. But so will we
- tomcat24

Same thing for Pittsburgh. They always seem to have mountains of cap space at the deadline. It really comes down to how you want to build your team. Stan believes in the core and invests in them, significantly so. To him, it's better to have 6-10 guys you know you can count on going into a season and if that means having 1-2M in cap space, so be it.

Someone talked about trading Sharp a few posts back. I like Sharp and don't think they should move him, but that post was right...they move sharp and it sets up an opportunity for cap flexibility down the road. But I caution this, the Hawks relied heavily on #10 early in the year. That unused cap space may be for naught if they dig themselves too big a hole, because they hitched their LW wagons to Bickell and Saad, two inconsistent players

I really like sharp and I think he is still a great player. This playoff run was a freak thing for him. But, by dealing him and a few other pieces I think they could set themselves up for a very bright future as well as still being a Cup contender now.
- tomcat24

I used to think just that. At the same time though, sharp is 32. He is coming off one of his best seasons, but that's just more of a reason to sell high on him and finally get ourselves a 2C. Hossa is older but his cap is more manageable and he brings that 200ft game. Sharp brings streaky scoring and his love for hitting iron.

Hawks have a glutton of wingers as is, especially now that we know that Saad belongs in the top 6.

Either way, Bowman has options and we all know he isn't going to trade away a guy like sharp unless the deal more so favors the Hawks. I'm happy if he stays and I'll be happy if he gets traded.

This is how Detroit remained/s so competitive, you have to retool on the fly.

Considering my choice to represent the East in the finals was swept out in round 1....that's not saying much
- Ogilthorpe2

My cup winner lost in the first round as well.

That was part of my "ban". I actually challenged the Ranger fans on that absurd notion - I guess that was "trolling".
- CaptainBlackhawk

My post was mostly directed at that one NY fan who kept coming over at the beginning of the Conf Finals.

Didn't read your posts over there but if that's the case he probably should have gotten one here. (a ban)

It wasn't just at the deadline but their trades in general. They always need players that can score so over the years they traded for williams and gagne and richards and penner played big roles on their 1st Cup. What pisses me off is their cap management. They were able to keep almost all of their 1st cup team intact to win the 2nd. Plus they were able to Add Gaborik and they can still keep almost all their team together for another run this year. Like a poster said last night, after next year they might finally run into trouble. But so will we
- tomcat24

What if Stan had the flexibility to do something like the following three months ago (and all of this is just for illustration purposes):

(1) Recognize a hole at 2C
(2) Identify Neisen as the best available solution
(3) Send TT to Buffalo for their first round pick (first overall?) - maybe have to send another prospect - Buffalo us rebuilding, maybe they say ok
(4) Send Buffalo's and Chicago's first round picks and a prospect to the Island (Brooklyn?) for Neilsen

Would gave been nice, huh? Get a quality mid-level center without giving up any of the core (or anyone on the roster).

But need to be able to have enough cap space to do something like this - and that flexibility needs to be developed the summer before (which would cost you roster players).

Creative.

I used to think just that. At the same time though, sharp is 32. He is coming off one of his best seasons, but that's just more of a reason to sell high on him and finally get ourselves a 2C. Hossa is older but his cap is more manageable and he brings that 200ft game. Sharp brings streaky scoring and his love for hitting iron.

Hawks have a glutton of wingers as is, especially now that we know that Saad belongs in the top 6.

Either way, Bowman has options and we all know he isn't going to trade away a guy like sharp unless the deal more so favors the Hawks. I'm happy if he stays and I'll be happy if he gets traded.

This is how Detroit remained/s so competitive, you have to retool on the fly.
- teh_HAWKZ

This!

You forgot his (I'm guessing) 10-15% conversion rate on clear-cut breakaways.

I used to think just that. At the same time though, sharp is 32. He is coming off one of his best seasons, but that's just more of a reason to sell high on him and finally get ourselves a 2C. Hossa is older but his cap is more manageable and he brings that 200ft game. Sharp brings streaky scoring and his love for hitting iron.

Hawks have a glutton of wingers as is, especially now that we know that Saad belongs in the top 6.

Either way, Bowman has options and we all know he isn't going to trade away a guy like sharp unless the deal more so favors the Hawks. I'm happy if he stays and I'll be happy if he gets traded.

This is how Detroit remained/s so competitive, you have to retool on the fly.
- teh_HAWKZ

Yeah I think retooling on the fly is the way to go here. We still have a lot of great players. Stan won't just trade sharp for a cap dump that won't help us for a few years. Even witout sharp this team will be dangerous plus they will set themselves up to be better in the long run

What if Stan had the flexibility to do something like the following three months ago (and all of this is just for illustration purposes):

(1) Recognize a hole at 2C
(2) Identify Neisen as the best available solution
(3) Send TT to Buffalo for their first round pick (first overall?) - maybe have to send another prospect - Buffalo us rebuilding, maybe they say ok
(4) Send Buffalo's and Chicago's first round picks and a prospect to the Island (Brooklyn?) for Neilsen

Would gave been nice, huh? Get a quality mid-level center without giving up any of the core (or anyone on the roster).

But need to be able to have enough cap space to do something like this - and that flexibility needs to be developed the summer before (which would cost you roster players).

Creative.
- StLBravesFan

Interesting. So would you trade TT+ for the #2 (Buffalo) pick this year to land a Center, like Bennett or Reinhart? Those guys would likely come in at a pretty high cap hit.

Same thing for Pittsburgh. They always seem to have mountains of cap space at the deadline. It really comes down to how you want to build your team. Stan believes in the core and invests in them, significantly so. To him, it's better to have 6-10 guys you know you can count on going into a season and if that means having 1-2M in cap space, so be it.

Someone talked about trading Sharp a few posts back. I like Sharp and don't think they should move him, but that post was right...they move sharp and it sets up an opportunity for cap flexibility down the road. But I caution this, the Hawks relied heavily on #10 early in the year. That unused cap space may be for naught if they dig themselves too big a hole, because they hitched their LW wagons to Bickell and Saad, two inconsistent players
- eburgio

Sharp was definitely huge in that 1st part until January. Can't downplay that and that could happen again with bickell and saad disappearing. But lA has proven it isn't how you start but how you finish. They underachieved both years theywon their Cups. With all the talent we have here I don't see anyway they will fall out of playoff contention. Besides if they trade sharp it will probably be for a roster player or 2 so it isnt like they have nobody that will come in and replace a few of his points at least

Sharp was definitely huge in that 1st part until January. Can't downplay that and that could happen again with bickell and saad disappearing. But lA has proven it isn't how you start but how you finish. They underachieved both years theywon their Cups. With all the talent we have here I don't see anyway they will fall out of playoff contention. Besides if they trade sharp it will probably be for a roster player or 2 so it isnt like they have nobody that will come in and replace a few of his points at least
- tomcat24

Right. I didnt mean to imply they were trading Sharp as a salary dump, not getting anything in return. You just have to hope those left behind (and acquired) can pick up the slack. 78 points, with a large stretch of nada from him, is a pretty good clip for the season. I like what Saad is becoming, but giving him and Bickell the reigns as top two LW's make me uncomfortable.

Sharp was definitely huge in that 1st part until January. Can't downplay that and that could happen again with bickell and saad disappearing. But lA has proven it isn't how you start but how you finish. They underachieved both years theywon their Cups. With all the talent we have here I don't see anyway they will fall out of playoff contention. Besides if they trade sharp it will probably be for a roster player or 2 so it isnt like they have nobody that will come in and replace a few of his points at least
- tomcat24

Totally agree and am looking at it from a bit of a bean counter standpoint...asset management. After the year he had, this is likely the highest return you get for Sharp.

He's 32 and don't think this will be one the Hawks end up regretting because like Chelios he plays until he's 50. If they're smart/creative they can get a decent return for #10 that addresses a hole/s and not create another.

Right. I didnt mean to imply they were trading Sharp as a salary dump, not getting anything in return. You just have to hope those left behind (and acquired) can pick up the slack. 78 points, with a large stretch of nada from him, is a pretty good clip for the season. I like what Saad is becoming, but giving him and Bickell the reigns as top two LW's make me uncomfortable.
- eburgio

I can understand that but if it helps them round out lower line depth and get a real 2C, the scoring shouldn't slip too much and hopefully overall team D improves.

If Bickell is worse than last year in the reg season, something is really wrong. Like you said, I also like what Saad is becoming. I'd have to look but if I had to guess, Smith scored as many goals as Sharp in the second half of the season. He gives you solid depth scoring and if Mo (the player not the poster) can hold down a regular shift, should get some from him too at LW.

Edit - Forgot Smith was an RW but he did outscore Sharp after the all-star break; 7g to 6g for PS.

Same thing for Pittsburgh. They always seem to have mountains of cap space at the deadline. It really comes down to how you want to build your team. Stan believes in the core and invests in them, significantly so. To him, it's better to have 6-10 guys you know you can count on going into a season and if that means having 1-2M in cap space, so be it.

Someone talked about trading Sharp a few posts back. I like Sharp and don't think they should move him, but that post was right...they move sharp and it sets up an opportunity for cap flexibility down the road. But I caution this, the Hawks relied heavily on #10 early in the year. That unused cap space may be for naught if they dig themselves too big a hole, because they hitched their LW wagons to Bickell and Saad, two inconsistent players
- eburgio

Pittsburgh has had big name, big salary players on LTIR the last few years, that's the only reason they've been able to acquire significant players at the trade deadline.

Interesting. So would you trade TT+ for the #2 (Buffalo) pick this year to land a Center, like Bennett or Reinhart? Those guys would likely come in at a pretty high cap hit.
- eburgio

Don't know Bennett - Reinhart of Calgary? He's a prospect like the ones they have at Rockford - why a high cap hit?

My criteria would be:

(1) Do they solve the 2C problem (and thus help solve the depth problem)?

(2) And what does Stan have to do to create the cap space?

If the answer to (1) is yes, and the answer to (2) is reasonable, then the overall answer is "yes".

Like in baseball: you "stockpile" prospects not only to bring them to the team, but also to use as pieces in deals that solve problems.

To respond to my own post:

The thing that keeps sticking out to me about LA's two Cups is that they had the creativity, aggressiveness, and financial flexibility to recognize their needs and solve them at the trade deadline twice: Carter and Gaborik.

Indicting Stan a little bit, although I can't argue with a couple of his TDL moves - Oduya and Handzus.

But Stan needs to get stuff done this summer - either a 2C - which, IMO, also helps solve the depth problem - or a 3C/4C - solving the depth problem - without creating other holes (Oduya and/or Leddy gone? Need to replace them).

And it would be nice to have some financial capability come next February, to take care of injury situations, or skaters not performing as expected.

Difficult? Absolutely.

Impossible? Absolutely not - it's been done by others.

Creative.
- StLBravesFan

Totally agree. Read an interesting article by Hockeybuzz's Wild bloggerhttp://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Tony-Dean/Minnesota-Wild-GM-Fletcher-Could-Swing-for-Fences-at-Draft-to-Add-Offense/189/60579 about how the Wild would like to add a scorer this offseason. In reading it, as always, I was thinking of how this could pertain to the Hawks. So a creative way to open up cap space would be to give the wild a proven scorer (sharp) in exchange for young Wild players- as mentioned in the article young Wild players would likely go the other way. A possible centerpiece for the package heading the other way could be Charlie Coyle who would add size, power, and physicality without downgrading the offensive production too dramatically. This deal- at the moment without any other wild players which would be included saves the hawks 5 mil. So after more players are sent the hawks way it would be less than 5 mil but still pretty close.

With the other prospects received from the wild, it would create organizational depth in Rockford, which would potentially allow the Hawks to move some current prospects and or picks for a 2C.

It would also open up enough cap space for the possibility of signing a 2C or 3C in free agency.

This coupled with the (hopefully) removal of unnessacry large contracts ( Rosival, Versteeg, and possibly Oduya, plus the loss of Handzus' contract could generate enough cap space for a move for a 2C and get a 3C in free agency.- Maybe Bolland can come back! I miss his style of play.

It wasn't just at the deadline but their trades in general. They always need players that can score so over the years they traded for williams and gagne and richards and penner played big roles on their 1st Cup. What pisses me off is their cap management. They were able to keep almost all of their 1st cup team intact to win the 2nd. Plus they were able to Add Gaborik and they can still keep almost all their team together for another run this year. Like a poster said last night, after next year they might finally run into trouble. But so will we
- tomcat24

Kings may have to buy out Richards this summer, or keep him for six more years at $5.75M. That's a hell of a lot of coin for what is basically a 4th line center for them.

And Dustin Brown has seven years left at $5.875. Not saying he wasn't big for them in the playoffs, but he was hot garbage all season long (including the Olympics). The way he plays, do you think he's going to be an effective player even 4 years from now?

If they decide to keep Richards their own version of Cap Hell will come sooner rather than later.