Phaneuf routinely plays the toughest minutes, in the most over scrutinized market, on a poorly run team.

Sorry, he IS a legitimate number one defenseman in the NHL. People may not like him, but he is a very good player. Note I didn't say elite. He's not Chara. Nor is he Doughty.

But he would be the best defenseman in Philly by a good bit.

Avoiding Phaneuf because Timonen is signed may just be the least logical statement I've heard. A 40 year old guy taking one kick at the Cup vs a 29 year old, first pair defenseman?

All that said, Phaneuf wouldn't be my first option. I don't like his contract, but it's also not a horrible deal. My concerns are tied more to age and the length of the deal. Some defensemen aged great and were still very good at age 37 (Phaneuf's age at end of deal). Others were not.

There's other options out there, but I'd be open to Dion.
- Jsaquella

Well put. Personally, I wouldn't target Phaneuf unless the trade cost was lucratively low. I wouldn't be upset if we did end up getting him though.

Problem is he is not a top Dman. Maybe a second.
Keith, Suter, Weber, Doughty, Subban, are worth that money and term. Not Dion.
- 3flyerkids

You mentioned elite players. You can throw OEL, Karlsson, and Pietrangelo in there. We're talking top-pair defensemen, which he is. There's a difference.

Even with the cap (hopefully) going up every year, I don't like his contract, both cap hit and length. Going after him seems like the same reaching we've seen the last 4-5 years. They finally have some viable prospects in Hagg, Morin, Ghost that could turn into top-pair players, and they're on ELC's right now. I'd rather stick with what they have and bring those guys along than tie up big money into a player long-term.
- jmatchett383

I understand the hesitation with the contract. Anytime you take on a player with a 7 year deal, it's a risk. While I think he is a #1 to pair defenseman, I don't think he is among the eilte. But the elite aren't available, and they'll cost a lot more.
That we have some viable prospects is great, but there are no guarantees there. A player like Morin is still a teenager. How long until he's a defenseman that the can rely on to play top minutes in top situations? 5 years? Players like Haag and Ghostibehere are good young prospects, but are they forecast to become top pairing defenseman? Bottom line is that I don't feel that having those prospects is a reason to not pursue a top defenseman. Again for me it depends on the trade cost.

Acquiring Phaneuf: ok with me. He's a good player, regardless of the rap he gets, and would be our best defenseman hands down

Sending Schenn and picks to Toronto to acquire Phaneuf: not ok with me.

Conclusion: Deny Dion

I just dont see Hexy getting involved with high contracts

Problem is he is not a top Dman. Maybe a second.
Keith, Suter, Weber, Doughty, Subban, are worth that money and term. Not Dion.
- 3flyerkids

so what number is he worth? $6.5 million? Are you being too shortsighted for say $500,000?

Guys like Doughty, Weber, etc will cost a heck of a lot more to acquire than Schenn and a high pick.

I think if you can get him for a reasonable (trade) price you do it. We have no one even close to his calibur on the blue line. I'm not worried about the money (especially when a 35 yr old like Markov is about to get 3 seasons at $6 mil each.

I'm not advocating acquiring Phaneuf. It would really depend on the cost. But really 7M for a top defenseman isn't outlandish.
- MJL

I agree. I am just having a hard time determining what pieces would go to toronto.

Even with the cap (hopefully) going up every year, I don't like his contract, both cap hit and length. Going after him seems like the same reaching we've seen the last 4-5 years. They finally have some viable prospects in Hagg, Morin, Ghost that could turn into top-pair players, and they're on ELC's right now. I'd rather stick with what they have and bring those guys along than tie up big money into a player long-term.
- jmatchett383

This.

I don't hate Dion (he's been a victim of some very bad coaches over the years)... but I'd prefer them to make a gradual succession plan over to the kids, instead of bringing in another contract that they'll probably be trying to get rid of before long.

Problem is he is not a top Dman. Maybe a second.
Keith, Suter, Weber, Doughty, Subban, are worth that money and term. Not Dion.
- 3flyerkids

He is a first pairing #1 defenseman in this League. He is not among the elite. He is in the next tier down. And those players you named would get a hell of lot more if they were signed to a deal under the current CBA.

Acquiring Phaneuf: ok with me. He's a good player, regardless of the rap he gets, and would be our best defenseman hands down

Sending Schenn and picks to Toronto to acquire Phaneuf: not ok with me.

Conclusion: Deny Dion
- Giroux_Is_God

There's the rub. I would rather use Schenn, if traded, to go after other targets. If Hartnell & something else can land him, then fine. But if the cost is Schenn, I shop around more

Cheaper and better? That's a loaded question, if we assume that Phaneuf is paid market value (which he probably is, maybe a bit overpaid). But things I would consider before Phaneuf:

- Trying to pry Alzner or Calrson out of Washington. With the management turnover and true showing by the Caps, they may be open to moving one of them out for more depth up front.

- Going after Josi in Nashville

- Niskanen as a UFA (costs no assets, just cap space)

- trying for Giordano from Calgary, as they need scoring help.

Off the top of my head.
- jmatchett383

Don't know that Niskanen is going to be cheaper, nor do I think he is better then Phaneuf. I also don't think the other players are better. We can look all around the League and come up with umpteen hypothetical options. Is Phaneuf really, trully available? Who knows. They're nice to think about, but are those options really available?

Don't know that Niskanen is going to be cheaper, nor do I think he is better then Phaneuf. I also don't think the other players are better. We can look all around the League and come up with umpteen hypothetical options. Is Phaneuf really, trully available? Who knows. They're nice to think about, but are those options really available?
- MJL

I think Carlson is better than him, honestly. But your question of "cheaper and better" has to also be compared to "not sign for $7M for the next 7 seasons." So, given that, I'd rather explore other options like the one I listed. I don't think Niskanen is better than him, but again, Niskanen will not cost us any assets aside from cap space.

There's the rub. I would rather use Schenn, if traded, to go after other targets. If Hartnell & something else can land him, then fine. But if the cost is Schenn, I shop around more
- Jsaquella

Not sure Hartnell's going anywhere.

would like to see Hexy get #21 along with #3 from the leafs

I think Carlson is better than him, honestly. But your question of "cheaper and better" has to also be compared to "not sign for $7M for the next 7 seasons." So, given that, I'd rather explore other options like the one I listed. I don't think Niskanen is better than him, but again, Niskanen will not cost us any assets aside from cap space.
- jmatchett383

sounds like what was said about streit and VL

I think Carlson is better than him, honestly. But your question of "cheaper and better" has to also be compared to "not sign for $7M for the next 7 seasons." So, given that, I'd rather explore other options like the one I listed. I don't think Niskanen is better than him, but again, Niskanen will not cost us any assets aside from cap space.
- jmatchett383

I'd be happy with exploring those options, if they are there to be explored.

sounds like what was said about streit and VL
- moylander

Streit did cost us assets. Lecavalier was a player that had no place on this team (if they wanted to keep Schenn at center). Those guys would have a place as well as a clear role.

[quote=moylander]so what number is he worth? $6.5 million? Are you being too shortsighted for say $500,000?

Guys like Doughty, Weber, etc will cost a heck of a lot more to acquire than Schenn and a high pick.

I think if you can get him for a reasonable (trade) price you do it. We have no one even close to his calibur on the blue line. I'm not worried about the money (especially when a 35 yr old like Markov is about to get 3 seasons at $6 mil each.

I am not saying B Schenn could land one of those guys, Timo has had better numbers than Dion, and Timo is much more better in his own end.
I just want the Flyers to lock up 49 million in this guy, especially if we are trading a very young forward for him.

Streit did cost us assets. Lecavalier was a player that had no place on this team (if they wanted to keep Schenn at center). Those guys would have a place as well as a clear role.
- jmatchett383

Lecavalier was signed when a different coach was at the helm. And he started the season playing center under that Coach.

I just dont see Hexy getting involved with high contracts
- vejim

I guess he didn't have enough clout with Lombardi to nix dealing for Richards and Carter

Sorry if this has already been covered over the WE, but it's curious to see that Kimmo's deal is missing a movement clause... or at least it hasn't been reported yet.

I guess he didn't have enough clout with Lombardi to nix dealing for Richards and Carter
- eayost

Lots of assumptions flying around about what kind of GM Hextall is going to be. It's more like hoping Hextall follows the philosophy that they want the Flyers to use in team building.

Cheaper and better? That's a loaded question, if we assume that Phaneuf is paid market value (which he probably is, maybe a bit overpaid). But things I would consider before Phaneuf:

- Trying to pry Alzner or Calrson out of Washington. With the management turnover and true showing by the Caps, they may be open to moving one of them out for more depth up front.

- Going after Josi in Nashville

- Niskanen as a UFA (costs no assets, just cap space)

- trying for Giordano from Calgary, as they need scoring help.

Off the top of my head.
- jmatchett383

From this list, it's Josi or bust for me.

Lecavalier was signed when a different coach was at the helm. And he started the season playing center under that Coach.
- MJL

Yes he did. Like I said, if you assume they wanted Schenn at center (which they tried to do even after Vinny came back), then he has no spot.

Lots of assumptions flying around about what kind of GM Hextall is going to be. It's more like hoping Hextall follows the philosophy that they want the Flyers to use in team building.
- MJL

I don't think you can call them assumptions if they're based on quotes that came straight out of the horse's mouth.