Grossmann is very physical. He was 15th in hits among all NHL defenseman last season.
- MJL

Grossmann's speciality is basically being physical and tough. How can this be overlooked? He's not perfect but hitting and blockong shots is exactly what he does well. Even playing hurt.

Can we trade for the rights to Kovalchuk? How about him sniping on the PP and on Giroux's wing. As of right now he is on the restricted list I believe so he doesnt count against the cap. I know you will all say "NO WAY" but why not. Think it would be interesting

Yeah I remember. I hadn't heard otherwise, honestly. Litrilly everyone thought he was ready to jump in and be at the very least semi effective in the NHL.

In all honesty though, I thought he was going to be send down to the A. The Devils were gonna suck that year right? Hindisight is 20/20 blah blah but objectively looking at it, this is a team that wasn't going anywhere. Why throw the kid into the volcano right away?

See the gold standard for developing D prospects, and my favorite non-Flyer: Pietrangelo
- Giroux_Is_God

Yeah. I didn't realize he would have had to be sent back to the SHL. I believe his SHL team let him run free without repercussions. Similar to Jack Johnson, he never was able to adjust. It would have been better for his development to play in the AHL, but he wouldn't have been allowed to.

Thats a mediocre group at best.
- jak521

I'd say it's a top-15 or so. Not top-10 though. If the forwards help out, it's good enough.

Can we trade for the rights to Kovalchuk? How about him sniping on the PP and on Giroux's wing. As of right now he is on the restricted list I believe so he doesnt count against the cap. I know you will all say "NO WAY" but why not. Think it would be interesting
- J35Bacher

If he became available as a FA I would poke around, but I wouldn't want to inherit that contract.

No.

Not so obvious.
- Tomahawk

MacDonald without question was an obvious and solid addition to the Flyers. MacDonald singlehandedly helped turn around Luke Schenn's game, seeing how Luke struggled for most of the season. The only real issue with MacDonald is the money to keep him. He could become the new Matt Carle whipping boy because of it.

Can we trade for the rights to Kovalchuk? How about him sniping on the PP and on Giroux's wing. As of right now he is on the restricted list I believe so he doesnt count against the cap. I know you will all say "NO WAY" but why not. Think it would be interesting
- J35Bacher

That won't work. For Kovy to come back, all thirty teams have to approve. I'm not sure if the Devils can trade his rights now, but if they do, they could really stick it to the team and say no after the trade.

See the gold standard for developing D prospects, and my favorite non-Flyer: Pietrangelo
- Giroux_Is_God

Yeah, 2008 was an interesting test case for diverging paths toward development... Bogosian was supposed to have the same upside as Petro but was considered the safer bet, and ATL threw him in right away... STL let Petro simmer in junior for a couple of seasons and he came out ready to rock... Doughty was just awesome right away.

Shift fate/karma/injuries around and it could easily be Bogo as proverbial king of the hill, and Doughty and/or Petro struggling.

MacDonald without question was an obvious and solid addition to the Flyers. MacDonald singlehandedly helped turn around Luke Schenn's game, seeing how Luke struggled for most of the season. The only real issue with MacDonald is the money to keep him. He could become the new Matt Carle whipping boy because of it.
- SuperSchennBros

Except most of the people who defended Matt Carle are against the MacDonald signing.

Can we trade for the rights to Kovalchuk? How about him sniping on the PP and on Giroux's wing. As of right now he is on the restricted list I believe so he doesnt count against the cap. I know you will all say "NO WAY" but why not. Think it would be interesting
- J35Bacher

NO WAY

MacDonald without question was an obvious and solid addition to the Flyers. MacDonald singlehandedly helped turn around Luke Schenn's game, seeing how Luke struggled for most of the season. The only real issue with MacDonald is the money to keep him. He could become the new Matt Carle whipping boy because of it.
- SuperSchennBros

Before AMac arrived, Luke was fine when paired w/ Gus; not so much w/ Mez/Gill/Grossmann.

Except most of the people who defended Matt Carle are against the MacDonald signing.
- PhillySportsGuy

I liked the MacDonald signing for about 6 games.

Before AMac arrived, Luke was fine when paired w/ Gus; not so much w/ Mez/Gill/Grossmann.
- Tomahawk

But d00000d...Hal Gill played really well in 2 games, and he therefore should have been on our playoff roster.

Yeah, 2008 was an interesting test case for diverging paths toward development... Bogosian was considered to have the same upside as Petro but was considered the safer bet, and ATL threw him in right away... STL let Petro simmer in junior for a couple of seasons and he came out ready to rock... Doughty was just awesome right away.

Shift fate/karma/injuries around and it could easily be Bogo as proverbial king of the hill, and Doughty and/or Petro struggling.
- Tomahawk

I think teams feel a need to validate their selections by putting players in the lineup as soon as possible. It gives the perception that their selection was a good one and their prospect is ahead of others in the draft.

In reality, it's extremely risky to start a player in the NHL. The player needs to demonstrate an ability to contribute right away in certain areas. You can't just keep him up because "he doesn't look out of place."

Before AMac arrived, Luke was fine when paired w/ Gus; not so much w/ Mez/Gill/Grossmann.
- Tomahawk

Gustafsson had good and bad games. If Gustafsson struggled, which saw him get booted from theline up, the pair struggled. At one point Gustafsson got hurt but he was only hurt two weeks during a game against Columbus. I don't think Schenn was ever paired with Gill though.

I liked the MacDonald signing for about 6 games.
- jmatchett383

Same. I think he'd be a lot better on a third pairing. $5M seems like a lot for a third pairing. I mean by NHL standards, not Flyer standards.

I think it was obvious that MacDonald was a solid addition and upgraded the Flyers defense. He has a strong ability to handle the puck in traffic under pressure, buy time with skating, and make a quality outlet pass. He also is solid positionally, and defensively. As well as being an outstanding shot blocker. It remains to be seen how much of a point producer he is going to be. But he definitely has some offensive ability, as well as being able to man the point on the 2nd unit PP. It was a solid addition to the team.

Here's the bottom line about playing defense. Good defenseman can look bad at times without the support from the team. If MacDonald was on Boston or Chicago. And Boychuck or Oduya was on the Flyers. The conversation would be the same but the names would be reversed. It's a hell of a lot easier to play defensively when you have solid all around team play, and consistent puck support, game in and game out. That is not consistent with the Flyers, and it makes the Flyers defenseman look bad at times.

And one other thing. If the Flyers overplay MacDonald, and use him a lot against top lines, he'll be a scapegoat of the fans on occasion. He's not a top pair defenseman. He's a 2nd pair top 4 all around player.
- MJL

So basically what I got from this is that a defenseman is only as good as those in front of him. Is that what you are saying?

Listen I dont think there is any debate that having great two way play makes it easier on the d... but the defense still needs to be good. MacDonald is what he is. The problem is that he is exposed, as are some of our other d-men (*most of our d-men) because we have them playing out of their scope.

MacDonald absolutely was an improvement to our defense, hell Modry may have been, but that doesnt mean he is a overall top 4 d-man. Our defense has serious limitations. That isnt MacDonalds fault. Im not pinning anything on the guy.. I just think he is a minor improvement to an already limited d.

You could move him to Chicago, and Im fairly certain he would do better.... because he wouldnt have the same responsibilities that he has here. Thats how I see it.

Yeah, 2008 was an interesting test case for diverging paths toward development... Bogosian was considered to have the same upside as Petro but was considered the safer bet, and ATL threw him in right away... STL let Petro simmer in junior for a couple of seasons and he came out ready to rock... Doughty was just awesome right away.

Shift fate/karma/injuries around and it could easily be Bogo as proverbial king of the hill, and Doughty and/or Petro struggling.
- Tomahawk

It's really just a testament to patience with defense prospects. It's funny- defense prospects are like this mythical sleeping beast. You have to let them quietly sleep and develop, but if you wake them up to early they get all cranky and they turn into a bust

Goalies are kind of the same way, but the magical word association game is "crapshoot" for goalies. You hit or miss. Period. (yeah ok you hit or miss on any prospect regardless of position but you get what I'm saying)

Forwards are the "easiest" to develop. I think with forwards you can afford to be a little less patient and still get away with it.

Why do you think the Flyers have such a good history with their first rounders? We all know they only draft forwards in round one

Same. I think he'd be a lot better on a third pairing. $5M seems like a lot for a third pairing. I mean by NHL standards, not Flyer standards.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well, when you consider they had a $4M defenseman in the press box...

But d00000d...Hal Gill played really well in 2 games, and he therefore should have been on our playoff roster.
- jmatchett383

I'm pretty sure Gill would get paired with Streit.

Before AMac arrived, Luke was fine when paired w/ Gus; not so much w/ Mez/Gill/Grossmann.
- Tomahawk

You think so? I thought that Gus/Schenn pair was....like a baby deer

You think so? I thought that Gus/Schenn pair was....like a baby deer
- Giroux_Is_God

Before or after hit by a car?

It's really just a testament to patience with defense prospects. It's funny- defense prospects are like this mythical sleeping beast. You have to let them quietly sleep and develop, but if you wake them up to early they get all cranky and they turn into a bust

Goalies are kind of the same way, but the magical word association game is "crapshoot" for goalies. You hit or miss. Period. (yeah ok you hit or miss on any prospect regardless of position but you get what I'm saying)

Forwards are the "easiest" to develop. I think with forwards you can afford to be a little less patient and still get away with it.

Why do you think the Flyers have such a good history with their first rounders? We all know they only draft forwards in round one
- Giroux_Is_God

Joni Pitkanen should have won the Hart in his rookie year.

Gustafsson had good and bad games. If Gustafsson struggled, which saw him get booted from theline up, the pair struggled. At one point Gustafsson got hurt but he was only hurt two weeks during a game against Columbus. I don't think Schenn was ever paired with Gill though.
- SuperSchennBros

AMac had bad and good games too... more bad in the PO's the more minutes he played.

I would have much rather them have just put Gus in the lineup and live w/ his ups and downs... and Schenn would have still had his mobile/puck-handling partner.

It's really just a testament to patience with defense prospects. It's funny- defense prospects are like this mythical sleeping beast. You have to let them quietly sleep and develop, but if you wake them up to early they get all cranky and they turn into a bust

Goalies are kind of the same way, but the magical word association game is "crapshoot" for goalies. You hit or miss. Period. (yeah ok you hit or miss on any prospect regardless of position but you get what I'm saying)

Forwards are the "easiest" to develop. I think with forwards you can afford to be a little less patient and still get away with it.

Why do you think the Flyers have such a good history with their first rounders? We all know they only draft forwards in round one
- Giroux_Is_God

Kind of like coming into the bedroom late at night and waking your significant other up