Let's not start this again, and stay to the other topic that we've beaten to death 30 times.

Niskanen is a good defenseman. He happened to have a great year, after he was pressed into a top pair spot on a very offensively-minded Pittsburgh team. He was also (partially) playing for his next contract. It's entirely possible that he repeats those number,s but it seems like the perfect storm for him. I, personally, don't think he'll warrant the long-term, huge-money contract he'll get, regardless of the AMac signing. I see them as 2 separate entities. The AMac signing was (sadly) a necessary evil for the Flyers. Had he gone to UFA, he'd likely be getting what the Flyers gave him or better. But again, that's a separate issue.
- jmatchett383

My issue is, it wasn't a necessary evil. Even if he got similar money on the open market, let him get it.

I understand market value, but I also understand that guys like Ron Hainsey & Tom Gilbert had good years making peanuts. I'd like to see the Flyers find that kind of guy more often, rather than biting the bullet and paying market value.

MacDonald isn't a bad player, but you can very likely find a similar one for less money

Bill,

What do you think of Ville Husso?

Had a solid year & seems to be in line to lead Finland at the World Juniors next year.
- ob18

Bill's eating fish tacos. As soon as we're done and clear the dishes he said he'll grab a tumbler of absynthe and get back to you.

Bill's eating fish tacos. As soon as we're done and clear the dishes he said he'll grab a tumbler of absynthe and get back to you.


- mayorofangrytown

Just going through more scouting reports, heard about him before thought I'd ask

Just going through more scouting reports, heard about him before thought I'd ask
- ob18

Ask away pally. I just have to take the time to look all these guys up that you keep throwing out. That's not a bad thing.

My issue is, it wasn't a necessary evil. Even if he got similar money on the open market, let him get it.

I understand market value, but I also understand that guys like Ron Hainsey & Tom Gilbert had good years making peanuts. I'd like to see the Flyers find that kind of guy more often, rather than biting the bullet and paying market value.

MacDonald isn't a bad player, but you can very likely find a similar one for less money
- Jsaquella

I would disagree completely with that. If Hainsey and Gilbert are similar players to MacDonald, they would be able to command the same relative contract. Last year Ron Hainsey was a UFA and he was only able to command a one year deal for 2M. If he's an equal player to MacDonald, why is that? Same thing with Gilbert. They couldn't because they're not similar players. And we'll see what they're able to command on the open market. Maybe someone should tell their agents that they're similar to MacDonald, and get a 5 year deal for 5M a year.

And if I'm misreading this, and Hainsey and Gilbert aren't being used as examples of someone similar that is cheaper. Who are the possibilities that the Flyers can get that are similar players, in a cheaper deal?


And finally, upgrading the Flyers defense was definitely necessary.

Ask away pally. I just have to take the time to look all these guys up that you keep throwing out. That's not a bad thing.
- mayorofangrytown

I'd just say get the book I have and it'd save you time.

I think it's pretty equal in terms of defensive play, and in puck movement. Niskanen is a little more physical. But the big edge is in offensive production. At least this year.

And listen, I understand. MacDonald plays for the Flyers and was acquired by Paul Holmgren. So he's not that good. I get it.
- MJL

Just before I went into work today, a fellow Buzzer on these walls mentioned that Brian Campbell wants out of Florida. Now, Andrew MacDonald doesn't overly excite me as a player but I willingly admit that I need to see more. I think we all remember when Randy Jones resigned to 2.75 and Matt Carle was brought here at 3 million. At the time these hits were a lot of money against the cap. Now MacDonald stays with us at 5 million. More then Coburn but not as good as Coburn.

I digress...

From a money standpoint I think MacDonald is the guy I would give up if the Flyers were to have interest in Campbell. We move MacDonald's five million in exchange for Campbell's 7 million dollar hit. Does this make sense? Obviously more parts would have to be made within the exchange, just something to think about.

Just before I went into work today, a fellow Buzzer on these ealls mentioned that Brian Campbell wants out of Florida. Now, Andrew MacDonald doesn't overly excite me as a player but I willingly admit that I need to see more. I think we all remember when Randy Jones resigned to 2.75 and Matt Carle was brought here at 3 million. At the time these hits were a lot of money against the cap. Now MacDonald stays with us at 5 million. More then Coburn but not as good as Coburn.

I digress...

From a money standpoint I think MacDonald is the guy I would give up if the Flyers were to have interest in Campbell. We move MacDonald's five million in exchange for Campbell's 7 million dollar hit. Does this make sense? Obviously more parts would have to be made within the exchange, just something to think about.
- SuperSchennBros

I would not make that move. That's trading a 27 year old defenseman for a 35 year old offensive defenseman. Why would the Flyers do that?

I assume this is meant towards me, so I'll elaborate and respond to you directly. Instead of responding indirectly.
I'm on record as stating that I would not have signed Jody Shelley. Also on record as saying I understand the argument for not having an enforcer. But here's what I "ain't gonna be." I'm not going to be a guy who harps on every move and complains repeatedly that they team has an enforcer on the roster. As if that's a deciding factor in what kind of season they have. It's just not that important to put that kind of complaining into. Nor am I gonna be a guy who complains about the same moves, including repeatedly complaining about a player that was traded 9 years ago.
What I am going to be is a fan who looks at the team and it's moves objectively. The same way any reasonable pundit would do. And have a reasonable view point, and come to the conclusion that although I don't agree with signing an enforcer, I understand the viewpoint of the team and why they want one. And I'm okay with that. And if that makes me a "blind homer", so be it. I'd rather be that then a constant complainer, and full of negativity.
- MJL

Have to admit, though we all have our own breaking point, I could go another six lifetimes without hearing about moves made a decade ago, or even three years ago

Whoever those players are, whether they were good players or bad, they're gone

I'd just say get the book I have and it'd save you time.
- ob18

I'll snatch and grab it from you on Friday or Saturday... Watch ya back!!!

My issue is, it wasn't a necessary evil. Even if he got similar money on the open market, let him get it.

I understand market value, but I also understand that guys like Ron Hainsey & Tom Gilbert had good years making peanuts. I'd like to see the Flyers find that kind of guy more often, rather than biting the bullet and paying market value.

MacDonald isn't a bad player, but you can very likely find a similar one for less money
- Jsaquella

It's funny how people assume that overall salaries are escalating at some crazy pace, that the new going rate for #4 dmen is somehow actually $5M/per.

Salaries are fixed to revenue, and the overall pie is still only growing at the same 5-7% rate. More money for AMac just means less money for somebody who signs later in the summer. It doesn't mean every guy is going to break the bank, or some new standard has been set.

I would not make that move. That's trading a 27 year old defenseman for a 35 year old offensive defenseman. Why would the Flyers do that?
- MJL

In all honesty, I keep forgetting Campbell is this old. Even older then Lecavalier.

It's funny how people assume that overall salaries are escalating at some crazy pace, that the new going rate for #4 dmen is somehow actually $5M/per.

Salaries are fixed to revenue, and the overall pie is still only growing at the same 5-7% rate. More money for AMac just means less money for somebody who signs later in the summer. It doesn't mean every guy is going to break the bank, or some new standard has been set.
- Tomahawk

The only thing that is fixed to revenue is the total pie available to the players as a whole. What determines how big of a slice each individual player is going to get, is supply and demand. Which is why Niskanen is going to get signed by somebody to a big deal. And I assure you, total revenue isn't going to come into play for the teams bidding for his services. And that's what sets the market. In a year or two as salaries continue to escalate, 5M for a good top 4 defenseman is going to be cheap.

Pretty sure this is sarcasm, but you're not confused. You have it right in my opinion. I keep reading about waiting for the young defenseman to develop. That could take a number of years, for that to happen. To the point where they can take on large responsibilities on the team. Meanwhile prime years of player such as Giroux and Voracek go down the drain. Flyers don't need to rebuild. They need to tweak.
- MJL

Yep and you'll be tweaking for the next 40 years without a cup

It's funny how people assume that overall salaries are escalating at some crazy pace, that the new going rate for #4 dmen is somehow actually $5M/per.

Salaries are fixed to revenue, and the overall pie is still only growing at the same 5-7% rate. More money for AMac just means less money for somebody who signs later in the summer. It doesn't mean every guy is going to break the bank, or some new standard has been set.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. Is MacDonald better than Hainsey or Gilbert? Probably, but he's not $3mm per year better.

Every summer there's a few guys who end up waiting until late July or early August to sign, and often times for less cash. There's always some variables. Some are ok with Mark Streit & howl at Byfuglien, because he's perceived to be lazy. Maybe Hainsey had to settle for a below market deal because of his vocal involvement during the lockout.

It's not as if MacDonald is Chris Pronger. He is, depending on your opinion, a solid second or third pair guy. He has some good qualities & some bad. He's not some vital piece that teams need to have.

Does anyone have a final answer on who we draft?

Exactly. Is MacDonald better than Hainsey or Gilbert? Probably, but he's not $3mm per year better.

Every summer there's a few guys who end up waiting until late July or early August to sign, and often times for less cash. There's always some variables. Some are ok with Mark Streit & howl at Byfuglien, because he's perceived to be lazy. Maybe Hainsey had to settle for a below market deal because of his vocal involvement during the lockout.

It's not as if MacDonald is Chris Pronger. He is, depending on your opinion, a solid second or third pair guy. He has some good qualities & some bad. He's not some vital piece that teams need to have.
- Jsaquella

Bryzgalov is the best example of how the process is less a perfect market driven by supply/demand, and more a case of teams making assumptions and gambles based on imperfect information.

Flyers thought he was worth $51M... the market obviously indicated otherwise that summer. It's nothing but an exercise in perceived value.

Ahhhhh February 2011... where have you gone.

http://articles.philly.co...nik-zherdev-flyers-career
- mayorofangrytown

Feels like it was all a dream at this point.

Does anyone have a final answer on who we draft?
- SuperSchennBros

Ekbad

I'll snatch and grab it from you on Friday or Saturday... Watch ya back!!!
- mayorofangrytown

Good luck with that one.

Feels like it was all a dream at this point.
- Roytastic

Ekbad
- Winning

Travis Sanheim or Nikolay Goldobin





I really have no clue

Travis Sanheim or Nikolay Goldobin





I really have no clue
- ob18

have you soured at all on Honka? or do you think he'll be gone at that point?

Bryzgalov is the best example of how the process is less a perfect market driven by supply/demand, and more a case of teams making assumptions and gambles based on imperfect information.

Flyers thought he was worth $51M... the market obviously indicated otherwise that summer. It's nothing but an exercise in perceived value.
- Tomahawk

Yeah. The top two goalies that summer were arguably Bryz & Vokoun. Bryz got about $4mm a year more because the Flyers were desperate and Snider's comments painted Holmgren in a corner

Exactly. Is MacDonald better than Hainsey or Gilbert? Probably, but he's not $3mm per year better.

Every summer there's a few guys who end up waiting until late July or early August to sign, and often times for less cash. There's always some variables. Some are ok with Mark Streit & howl at Byfuglien, because he's perceived to be lazy. Maybe Hainsey had to settle for a below market deal because of his vocal involvement during the lockout.

It's not as if MacDonald is Chris Pronger. He is, depending on your opinion, a solid second or third pair guy. He has some good qualities & some bad. He's not some vital piece that teams need to have.
- Jsaquella

If MacDonald was Chris Pronger, they wouldn't have gotten him for 5M a year. So not sure what that has to do with it. The Flyers weren't looking for a cheap one year stop gap player. They were looking to add a player that could be a part of the team, and upgrade the defense, for a number of years.
There seems to be this narrative that wants the Flyers to upgrade and build a better defense, but doesn't want them to pay the going rate. Or just simply isn't happy with any of their choices. Regardless of how they're acquired.