But but but CORSI....
- jmatchett383

ya, I heard Grossmann doesn't have any CORSIs and only bad WOWYs

I think that people's problem isn't so much "him no fight" or "him no score." It's "him no move."

I'm fine with Grossmann, but we have a hugely expensive defensive corps, and if we plan to find the space for a #1 guy, we'll need to be able to afford him. Grossmann might end up being the odd man out in that regard; if not, someone's bound to be. The question is, who?
- dilbert719

Actually, Grossmann's main problem is how bad he is with his stick. His inability to consistently make good passes and plays with the puck causes the Flyers to get stuck in their own zone a lot. This is why Streit had a much better Goals For percentage when he wasn't playing with Grossmann.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

Actually, Grossmann's main problem is how bad he is with his stick. His inability to consistently make good passes and plays with the puck causes the Flyers to get stuck in their own zone a lot. This is why Streit had a much better Goals For percentage when he wasn't playing with Grossmann.
- Feanor

It's hard for his hooves to grip the stick because you know, he's a Clydesdale horse.

Grossmann and Robidas were a pretty damn good pairing in Dallas and, down the stretch this year, he had a similar chemistry emerge with Streit.

I am fine with the Flyers dealing Grossmann if they can upgrade mobility without sacrificing too much size. But I disagree with the notion that he's a liability or that his role is unnecessary. He is good at what he does well.
- bmeltzer

If Grossmann can age and play like Hatcher, he'll be fine. He's got to know his limitations and play within them.

Hatcher's knees turned to complete crap late in his career, and he had to play a more positionally sound game. And he did okay. He got burned occasionally, but he learned from those experiences.

It's hard for his hooves to grip the stick because you know, he's a Clydesdale horse.
- Streit2ThePoint

This really did make me laugh.
I think Grossmann can make an ok outlet pass, but you're right he's not great with the puck. Don't expect him to dance it out of our zone a lot.
That's not what he does well. Who needs blocked shots? Consistent penalties killed on one of the teams with the highest pim?
-insert sarcasm-

I like the look of this team. We could argue that we were an Akeson double minor away from meeting the Pens in Round two and then who knows. I am excited for a few tweeks and strong draft by Hexy and crew. Giving Berube the summer and training camp to implement his system will do this team wonders.
- PhiFaninEdm

Don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but TOR fans were probably thinking the same thing after they took Boston to 7. Thankfully, the Flyers have a new hand on the rudder, otherwise I'd really be worried that they would be lulled into thinking that they were actually close, and didn't have huge issues with their roster and execution.

He is only 30. There is no reason why he can't be productive for several more years (and there are only two years remaining on his current contract -- not like he's signed til he's 35).
- bmeltzer

Excuse me if this makes me sound like the world's dumbest person but people continue to use the word "redundant" when it comes to Nicolas Grossmann and Luke Schenn but is it redundant to have 6 puck moving and mobile defenseman on one roster?

Grossmann has had past injury issues but I felt he did s pretty good job at keeping his injuries in check and playing hurt this season. There was no getting away from the season ending injury in the playoffs but anything before that he's only missed time with the flu. No more time the Timonen being rested because Timonen was 39 this year.

If Grossmann can age and play like Hatcher, he'll be fine. He's got to know his limitations and play within them.

Hatcher's knees turned to complete crap late in his career, and he had to play a more positionally sound game. And he did okay. He got burned occasionally, but he learned from those experiences.
- tangent_man

Hatcher was really underrated w/ the puck... he could make those quick decisions and outlets to get the team out of the zone consistently. I don't think Grossmann can survive if he loses any more mobility -- he's going to go the way of Doug Murray.

Is there anywhere that tracks number of icings by player in the NHL?

Is there anywhere that tracks number of icings by player in the NHL?
- Feanor

ExtraSkater has it... although it's for the team while a player is on the ice, not icings specifically credited to the player:
http://www.extraskater.co...phi&sort=icet&dir=reverse

The Flyers aren't "looking for a taker" for Grossmann. Berube likes him a lot. The org likes and is comfortable with him in their top six. Talk to Mason about how good Grossmann is helping him out around the net by tying players up or clearing traffic to let him see shots. That doesn't mean Grossmann wouldn't be traded depending on what else they are doing, but they are not looking to unload him just for the sake of doing so.
- bmeltzer

But have you seen his possession numbers! That's all the game is about!

ExtraSkater has it... although it's for the team while a player is on the ice, not icings specifically credited to the player:
http://www.extraskater.co...phi&sort=icet&dir=reverse
- Tomahawk

Thanks!

Seeing Grossmann's name at the top was not a surprise.

ExtraSkater has it... although it's for the team while a player is on the ice, not icings specifically credited to the player:
http://www.extraskater.co...phi&sort=icet&dir=reverse
- Tomahawk

All this tells me is that Giroux is terrible at puck possession.

Thanks!

Seeing Grossmann's name at the top was not a surprise.
- Feanor

Yeah, that guy in second place is terrible at puck possession, too.

Thank you Bill! I've been trying to defend Grossmann but I often feel like I'm the only one. I really like him. I agree that he's one of his goalie's favorite defensemen and that doesn't just include Mason even Bryz appreciated him.
He's not fast, but he's usually positionally sound, can lay a heavy hit, blocks a ton of shots, and is a steady player. I don't like him paired with Streit I think on paper they look good but in practice they don't work well. So I'd be all for shifting his normal partner around a bit, but I feel people give him a bad rap he doesn't deserve.
- FlyersGrace

You're definitely not the only one Grace! Grossmann is a solid defensive defenseman. Who does his job abd is very reliable.

You're definitely not the only one Grace! Grossmann is a solid defensive defenseman. Who does his job abd is very reliable.
- MJL

All this tells me is that Giroux is terrible at puck possession.
- jmatchett383

How many of those icings do you think were the result of a bad pass by Giroux? I'm going to say not many since he's the best passer on the team.

Actually, Grossmann's main problem is how bad he is with his stick. His inability to consistently make good passes and plays with the puck causes the Flyers to get stuck in their own zone a lot. This is why Streit had a much better Goals For percentage when he wasn't playing with Grossmann.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2013-14&sit=5v5
- Feanor

Quick question, when Streit wasn't playing with Grossmann, who was he playing with?

How many of those icings do you think were the result of a bad pass by Giroux? I'm going to say not many since he's the best passer on the team.
- Feanor

Then why was he all the way up at the top (and Voracek at #5)? Wouldn't it make sense for bad "puck possession" guys like Hartnell, Simmonds, and Vinny to be closer to the top, all things relatively equal?

Quick question, when Streit wasn't playing with Grossmann, who was he playing wit?
- MJL

Is the answer Jesus?

Quick question, when Streit wasn't playing with Grossmann, who was he playing wit?
- MJL

And I'd make sure that stat did not include power play time which Streit gets and he is not on the ice with Grossmann.

Thanks!

Seeing Grossmann's name at the top was not a surprise.
- Feanor

Maybe more telling if you look at /60 rates:

Gustafsson 6.7
Grossmann 5.9
MacDonald 5.5
Coburn 4.9
Streit 4.9
Timonen 4.7
Schenn 4.6
Meszaros 3.8

Then why was he all the way up at the top (and Voracek at #5)? Wouldn't it make sense for bad "puck possession" guys like Hartnell, Simmonds, and Vinny to be closer to the top, all things relatively equal?
- jmatchett383

Icings have nothing to do w/ possession skill... not sure where you made that leap.

Excuse me if this makes me sound like the world's dumbest person but people continue to use the word "redundant" when it comes to Nicolas Grossmann and Luke Schenn but is it redundant to have 6 puck moving and mobile defenseman on one roster?


- SuperSchennBros

Absolutely it is. Having too many mobile puck moving defenseman that lack physical play is just as bad. Really it's what makes defenseman who have both attributes to their game so valuable. And why they make the big bucks.

I don't love Grossmann as much as some, but my thing is this: He's not the biggest problem on the roster.

They lost to the Rags because they didn't have the ability to score at even strength -- and yes, I totally believe an elite defenseman can help,that, but come on -- the biggest need for this team is make sure they have forwards who can out the puck in the net, generate offense at even strength, against GOOD teams.

That is not to say the Flyers can't score goals -- they can. But they need to be a little better at even strength against those top 6-8 teams in the league. And i think they can be, with smart purchases in free agency -- I mean, seriously. They can ABSOLUTELY improve the fourth line. They can get a two-way winger for the third line.

These are things they can do that will help them immediately.