Is the answer Jesus?
- jmatchett383

Very close!

Everyone has their own idea of which defenseman is which by numbers to this team. I think itself better to look at each defenseman by value to the team. I'm interested in knowing why we were so quick to sign McDonald who is a not as big, as fast or as good as Coburn but in my opinion play the more similar style as one another. MacDonald has the offensive edge on Coburn but I wouldn't exactly call McDonald an offensive defenseman. I can see why Grossmann would be number one on thr chopping block and Luke Schenn but should be consider moving MacDonald for an upgrade an upgrade because MacDonald has more value?

Quick question, when Streit wasn't playing with Grossmann, who was he playing wit?
- MJL

Streit's partners in order of TOI:

Grossmann 749:23
Luke Schenn 152:06
Andrej Meszaros 148:14
Braydon Coburn 88:45
Andrew MacDonald 74:34
Hall Gill 41:06
Kimmo Timonen 35:10

He had a better GF% with every partner than Grossmann except for Schenn. He was particularly effective with MacDonald. You can say that's a small smaple size, but then you'd also have to admit that in a large sample size - the entire season - Streit did much better at scoring goals and preventing goals without Grossmann, and Grossmann did much worse without Streit.

Everyone has their own idea of which defenseman is which by numbers to this team. I think itself better to look at each defenseman by value to the team. I'm interested in knowing why we were so quick to sign McDonald who is a not as big, as fast or as good as Coburn but in my opinion play the more similar style as one another. MacDonald has the offensive edge on Coburn but I wouldn't exactly call McDonald an offensive defenseman. I can see why Grossmann would be number one on thr chopping block and Luke Schenn but should be consider moving MacDonald for an upgrade an upgrade because MacDonald has more value?
- SuperSchennBros

MacDonald is an all around defenseman. While he is not elite, or even a legit top pairing player, he is a player that can do a lot of things, and play in a lot of situations. And he is adept at handling and moving the puck. It will be interesting to see what kind of offensive numbers he puts up as a Flyer.

Streit's partners in order of TOI:

Grossmann 749:23
Luke Schenn 152:06
Andrej Meszaros 148:14
Braydon Coburn 88:45
Andrew MacDonald 74:34
Hall Gill 41:06
Kimmo Timonen 35:10

He had a better GF% with every partner than Grossmann except for Schenn. He was particularly effective with MacDonald. You can say that's a small smaple size, but then you'd also have to admit that in a large sample size - the entire season - Streit did much better at scoring goals and preventing goals without Grossmann, and Grossmann did much worse without Streit.
- Feanor

His defense partners were the only other players he played with?

MacDonald is an all around defenseman. While he is not elite, or even a legit top pairing player, he is a player that can do a lot of things, and play in a lot of situations. And he is adept at handling and moving the puck. It will be interesting to see what kind of offensive numbers he puts up as a Flyer.
- MJL

Fair enough. We signed him, let's see what he can do.

To me, the most underrated aspect of Grossmann's game is that he can kill penalties. He logged 2:40 shorthanded minutes per game, only behind Coburn and Timonen. I think Berube is going to want to limit Timonen's "hard: minutes which would include killing penalties. Grossmann has a big body that can clear the crease and he's positionally sound enough to track down a loose puck and fire it out of the zone on the PK. I'll be totally fine with the Flyers keeping a guy like that on the roster.

The Grossmann debate? Again?


Can we move on already? Please?

The Grossmann debate? Again?


Can we move on already? Please?
- hereticpride

It's a long Summer!

Sonny Milano, gettin all Tomas Jurco:

His defense partners were the only other players he played with?
- MJL

All of those stats are available on the site I linked to. I'm not typing them all out here for you because you're too lazy to do your own research.

To me, the most underrated aspect of Grossmann's game is that he can kill penalties. He logged 2:40 shorthanded minutes per game, only behind Coburn and Timonen. I think Berube is going to want to limit Timonen's "hard: minutes which would include killing penalties. Grossmann has a big body that can clear the crease and he's positionally sound enough to track down a loose puck and fire it out of the zone on the PK. I'll be totally fine with the Flyers keeping a guy like that on the roster.
- TobyFlenderson

And this is without mentioning his specialty of hits and blocking shots. Plus he's most likely to be called up to the top pair first to play with Coburn should Timonen sit.

It's a long Summer!
- MJL

Sure is.

The draft is a week an a half away. I wish people would put half as much effort into some potential picks as they do worrying about Grossmann.

Kings won 2/3 cups . Chicago won one . Both top possession teams in league.
Grossmann type of players are being discontinued
Reminds me Hatcher and Ratchje players

All of those stats are available on the site I linked to. I'm not typing them all out here for you because you're too lazy to do your own research.
- Feanor

What is with the needless jabs guys. Sheesh!

The Grossmann debate? Again?


Can we move on already? Please?
- hereticpride

I think, in the right situation, Grossmann (or even LSchenn) can be an asset.

I just don't think you can have them both on the same blueline.

Kings won 2/3 cups . Chicago won one . Both top possession teams in league.
Grossmann type of players are being discontinued
Reminds me Hatcher and Ratchje players
- Winning

Short term memory of 2010?

You're definitely not the only one Grace! Grossmann is a solid defensive defenseman. Who does his job and is very reliable.
- MJL

Ditto.

Kings won 2/3 cups . Chicago won one . Both top possession teams in league.
Grossmann type of players are being discontinued
Reminds me Hatcher and Ratchje players
- Winning

Short term memory of 2010?
- SuperSchennBros

Denial

All of those stats are available on the site I linked to. I'm not typing them all out here for you because you're too lazy to do your own research.
- Feanor

Has zero to do with doing research. It has to do with making a simple point. The questions are really rhetorical. Unless we're to believe that numbers generated on the ice attributed to any defenseman, are only the result of the defenseman and his defense partners play. And nothing to do with any other players on the ice, or game situations.

Here is the problem with WOWY's or any other stat like that. Inevitably when lines or defense pairings are split up, one there is normally a much smaller sample size, then the data that is collected when normal lines and pairings are together. And two when players are split up, a players role and situaiton is inevitably changed.
An assumption was made that Striet's GF% was better when he was moved away from Grossmann. Could it be that Streit's GF% went up when he was moved away from Grosmmann, it was because he played more with players such as Giroux and Voracek, in more offensive situations? Look at Streit GF% when playing with Giroux. As with any analytic, this is where the usual problems rear their ugly heads.

I think when one fan endlessly comes down on one player and his argument is both convincing and hypnotizing because of the endless repeat, we as drones and zombies follow. It's like the episode of Saved by the Bell when Zach would put this secret message in a tape recorded of music that he gave to Kelly, so she'd fall in love with him. It backfired when I believe Kelly mixed up the tape with another and others listened to the tape and everyone started to fall in love with Zach.

Kings won 2/3 cups . Chicago won one . Both top possession teams in league.
Grossmann type of players are being discontinued
Reminds me Hatcher and Ratchje players
- Winning

LA had Matt Greene in the lineup.

Kings won 2/3 cups . Chicago won one . Both top possession teams in league.
Grossmann type of players are being discontinued
Reminds me Hatcher and Ratchje players
- Winning

How do you win 2/3 cups? Did they have to split them with other teams? What happened to Chicago's other cup?

LA had Matt Greene in the lineup.
- MJL

Playing 3rd pairing minutes making less than the Kings top 4 guys