That you did.

(would you have passed over Fleury to take Larkin, tho?)
- Tomahawk

No Fleury is a no-brainer to me.

There is without question Laughton will be a better player then Ott. I never said he wouldn't be. The fact remains, Ott brings other things to the table that Laughton does not. he expectation that Laughton will make an instant impact is too high an expectation for Laughton.
- SuperSchennBros

A 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Bellemare being better than last year's 4th line isn't really an unreasonable expectation

So there is no misunderstanding, this is not in reply directly to you or about you. It's just in general, to nobody specifically.

You really don't have to expose guys like Bouillion and Weaver. How you do that is with support and the team game. I'm going to lay it on the line here, and give my philosophy on defenseman. It's a hard position to play. Probably the only position on the ice harder to play, is goaltender. It's hard enough to play, when you have puck support, and solid team play in front of you. Even harder when you don't.
I look at the top teams like LA. They play the right way. You don't skate 5 feet with the puck against them, without someone coming at you to cut you off an challenge the puck carrier. I like to look for what call, lot's of white ice. With LA, you see very little of it. Because they keep the gap tight, and support the puck, all over the ice. Not saying they're perfect and don't make mistakes. But every player on that team plays the right way. They have very good defenseman, especially Doughty. But as a group they're made even better, because of the team structure and support that they play with. There's lots of good teams out there that play the same way. And that makes defenseman better.
Now let's take the Flyers defenseman. They don't have that support on a consistent basis. So while they aren't the best group in the League, the Flyers issues with 5 on 5 play, does the opposite. It makes them look worse then they are. And that's what contributes to the whole narrative that the Flyers don't have good defenseman, and that a player like MacDonald is a 3rd pair defenseman. Let me tell you something, and I'm not talking about the Doughty's, Keith's, Pietrangelo's etc. They're obviously elite. I'm talking about the 2nd pair guys. If MacDonald played on a team that played the way LA is. He'd be coveted as a player by the same faction of fans, that has the narrative that the Flyers signed an average defenseman to a 5M deal. If a player like Jake Muzzin played on the Flyers, with the inconsistent support and team play, he'd be a scapegoat, and a target of the fans.
But one thing I'm curious about. Of course teams aren't infallible, but the Flyers have a competent Hockey staff, including the front office, and the pro scouting department. So why would they target, trade for, and sign a 3rd paid defenseman whose play in his own end is suspect, to a 5 year 25M deal? Something's not right there. Why don't they see what some fans see? What's above is what some fans see and they don't know the difference. They blindly look at stats, see how defenseman are exposed due to a lack of support, and come to flawed conclusions.
- MJL

Where I disagree with you is that no amount of systems play can overcome certain physical traits in one-on-one matchups.

Mike Weaver's 5-9, 180. And while he's competitive, many people -- including yourself -- have agreed with the simple fact that sometimes, a good, big player is going to get the best of a smaller players.

That's what I meant by exposure; the Weavers and Bouillons of the world have to be exposed in that way, and that's where I feel MacDonald, and sometimes Streit, come up a little short: You can overpower them with sheer talent, at some point.

Any thoughts if Nash gets bought out? I like his play and I think he could be cheaper than his old deal and would give G his sniper. Rangers have a lot of guys they have to pay.
- Deasr1

I don't think they'd buy him out. I would have interest, but I think he'd price himself out of the Flyers range

Didn't you already ask this the other day?
- Tomahawk

Every day till it happens

I can see your point defensively, but I think Read and Couturier need to have more offensive opportunities. Perhaps Read on a line with Giroux and Simmonds and Couturier on the second line with Voracek and someone else. I would really like to see an offensive minded yet defensively decent LW with him.
- ManCity

I wouldn't split Read and Couturier. They already have chemistry and it's not like Read doesn't bring offense in his own right. If you want Couturier's offense to develop, leave Read with him who's an offensive player in his own right. I just believe the two need a proper winger to clear space and do all the little things on the ice for the two. As for Simmonds and Voracek playing together on a line, they're both natural Right Wingers.

Any thoughts if Nash gets bought out? I like his play and I think he could be cheaper than his old deal and would give G his sniper. Rangers have a lot of guys they have to pay.
- Deasr1

If the cost is right, I am open to just about anybody. My thing is, I think the Flyers can easily shuffle their lines a bit and fill the need of getting Giroux a sniper.

I'd like to see Read slid up to the top six. I think a top six of him, Giroux and Simmonds, followed by Hartnell, Schenn and Voracek could give the Flyers a really effective group. I think the better balance would really help their 5 on 5 play, and also increase production from guys like Schenn and Read.

The downside is that it leaves the third line without a good winger, but it's likely going to be cheaper to add a good third line winger than a good 1st liner who can score 30 goals.

I don't think they'd buy him out. I would have interest, but I think he'd price himself out of the Flyers range
- PhillySportsGuy

My dreams...Rapture Jesus has spoken

A 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Bellemare being better than last year's 4th line isn't really an unreasonable expectation
- PhillySportsGuy

No it's not. But Raffl or Bellemare could play on a higher line.

A 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Bellemare being better than last year's 4th line isn't really an unreasonable expectation
- PhillySportsGuy

"Starting at LW, for your Lehigh Valley Phantoms.... Zac Rinaldoooooo!"

If the cost is right, I am open to just about anybody. My thing is, I think the Flyers can easily shuffle their lines a bit and fill the need of getting Giroux a sniper.

I'd like to see Read slid up to the top six. I think a top six of him, Giroux and Simmonds, followed by Hartnell, Schenn and Voracek could give the Flyers a really effective group. I think the better balance would really help their 5 on 5 play, and also increase production from guys like Schenn and Read.

The downside is that it leaves the third line without a good winger, but it's likely going to be cheaper to add a good third line winger than a good 1st liner who can score 30 goals.
- Jsaquella

I would love to see Coots get a sniper for his other side as well. He has the ability to score. But he lacks help. Read is awesome but they need someone to take up some space and pull the trigger as well. Plus, Coots REALLY needs to work that one timer. He has a cannon.

"Starting at left seat press box, for your Lehigh Valley Phantoms.... Zac Rinaldoooooo!"
- Tomahawk

FIFY

A 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Bellemare being better than last year's 4th line isn't really an unreasonable expectation
- PhillySportsGuy

So just like that? Laughton is a very good junior player. We know who he is but he still will have to adjust to the NHL ranks like ever rookie we've drafted. With Raffl I wouldn't count out the sophomore jinx. Even Couturier and Schenn both had awful second seasons with the Flyers, as have Carter and Richards when they were here. Bellemare...I know nothing about him. Do you? All three are developing.

"Starting at LW, for your Lehigh Valley Phantoms.... Zac Rinaldoooooo!"
- Tomahawk

Where I disagree with you is that no amount of systems play can overcome certain physical traits in one-on-one matchups.

Mike Weaver's 5-9, 180. And while he's competitive, many people -- including yourself -- have agreed with the simple fact that sometimes, a good, big player is going to get the best of a smaller players.

That's what I meant by exposure; the Weavers and Bouillons of the world have to be exposed in that way, and that's where I feel MacDonald, and sometimes Streit, come up a little short: You can overpower them with sheer talent, at some point.
- AllInForFlyers

Yes it can, because it drastically lessens one on one matchups. It's impossible to eliminate them completely. But with less opportunity for the opposition, there is less chance of mistakes. And with consistent support, when a mistake is made, a teammate is there to erase it. See that all the time with a team like LA.
I think where defenseman like Streit and MacDonald can be vulnerable, is in plays in the corners in puck battles. But that's again another situation where good teams consistently outnumber the opposition, instead of being outnumbered. And make up for those weaknesses. Flyers defenseman are consistently hung out to dry. That's the entire point of team defense and puck support. To eliminate one on one play as much as possible.

FIFY
- Deasr1

Sorry, their popcorn suite is currently reserved for one Jay Rosehill.

I would roll the dice on Laughton as the 4th line center. He was 4th in the entire OHL in face-offs. He won't be as good as Ott, but I don't think he'll be as bad as Schenn last year.

My concern is more about dedicating significant money to a 4th line player. You can say he's capable of playing on the third line, but he doesn't score enough. I would rather find a player with more offensive ability to play with Couts and Read.

Ott seems like one of those buyer beware candidates. He reminds me a lot of Gaustad. Good defensively, great on face-offs and terrific in tangibles. Any team would love to have him until you overpay and realize you've committed significant money to a guy who can't score.
- PhillySportsGuy

Again, who were you expecting to lead the charge offensively for both the Blues and Sabers last season? If you were expecting Ott to be this guy, then yes, you'll be extremely disappointed with Ott.

I wouldn't split Read and Couturier. They already have chemistry and it's not like Read doesn't bring offense in his own right. If you want Couturier's offense to develop, leave Read with him who's an offensive player in his own right. I just believe the two need a proper winger to clear space and do all the little things on the ice for the two. As for Simmonds and Voracek playing together on a line, they're both natural Right Wingers.
- SuperSchennBros

Well if they aren't going to split them up, then they have to do more to put them in better offensive situations. Rather then constant D zone starts against top lines. It's amazing that Couturier put up the points he did put up, with the role he has, and not a lot of PP time.
This is another issue that is caused by the Flyers inconsistent 5 on 5 play and team checking game.

So just like that? Laughton is a very good junior player. We know who he is but he still will have to adjust to the NHL ranks like ever rookie we've drafted. With Raffl I wouldn't count out the sophomore jinx. Even Couturier and Schenn both had awful second seasons with the Flyers, as have Carter and Richards when they were here. Bellemare...I know nothing about him. Do you? All three are developing.
- SuperSchennBros

Ill take my chances with Laughton and Raffl instead of dolling out a 4 year, $12M contract for Ott.

Just to be clear, Ott was pretty bad last year. There is no guarantee he bounces back to his 2011 form with the Stars.

I would love to see Coots get a sniper for his other side as well. He has the ability to score. But he lacks help. Read is awesome but they need someone to take up some space and pull the trigger as well. Plus, Coots REALLY needs to work that one timer. He has a cannon.
- Deasr1

That's why I am open to trading Brayden Schenn in the right deal for defensive help.

It's not that Schenn isn't or can't be a good NHLer, he is already that. I just feel they can slide Couturier up and get similar offensive production with him not being in such a defense heavy role.

Schenn played sheltered minutes and had 20 goals, 41 points. His possession numbers were not good, even when looking at the numbers when he played without Lecavalier on his line. More worrisome, there were definitely some games where Schenn was a non-factor, just using the eye test. That's not uncommon for a young player, but it did happen.

Couturier scored 13 goal and 39 points, playing a shut down role against top competition and seeing more D-zone starts than anyone else. I really doubt Couturier would be ineffective as a scoring line player next season, and I'm not eager to split him and Read, but I'm very eager to improve the 5 on 5 play.

A 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Bellemare being better than last year's 4th line isn't really an unreasonable expectation
- PhillySportsGuy

two unknowns out of three

and i don't know if berube sees raffl as a fourth line player
preseason will be interesting

Again, who were you expecting to lead the charge offensively for both the Blues and Sabers last season? If you were expecting Ott to be this guy, then yes, you'll be extremely disappointed with Ott.
- SuperSchennBros

My point is that Ott isn't going to produce enough offense to warrant a spot next to Couts and Read. Therefore, you're paying a 4th line center a lot of money.

Well if they aren't going to split them up, then they have to do more to put them in better offensive situations. Rather then constant D zone starts against top lines. It's amazing that Couturier put up the points he did put up, with the role he has, and not a lot of PP time.
This is another issue that is caused by the Flyers inconsistent 5 on 5 play and team checking game.
- MJL

So we need Joel Otto in order to get Brind'amour to produce?

My point is that Ott isn't going to produce enough offense to warrant a spot next to Couts and Read. Therefore, you're paying a 4th line center a lot of money.
- PhillySportsGuy

We don't know this as a fact. Ott didn't play for two team that were very good offensively last season.

We don't know this as a fact. Ott didn't play for two team that were very good offensively last season.
- SuperSchennBros

Blues were 6th in goals per game…