Scuderi is a no longer a good hockey player, and completely unnecessary as a "locker room guy" or "leader" or "train the young guys". There I said it.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I don't think anybody was refusing to believe this. His contract is indifferent, though.

I don't think anybody was refusing to believe this. His contract is indifferent, though.
- BulliesPhan87

Indeed. It's not about whether anybody would decide to keep him on the team. It's a matter of his contract not allowing us to trade him and his lack of desire to waive his nmc: so how do we make the best of that situation. At the end of the day, no matter how badly you may want, he's not going anywhere.

I don't think anybody was refusing to believe this. His contract is indifferent, though.
- BulliesPhan87

Sounded like the last page of comments was a lot of justification for how to deal with Scuderi on the roster. I don't think mentoring should play a role in that conversation. I think the whole mentoring thing in general is way overrated. That's what the whole staff of coaches is for. And if you really need a "player" to be a mentor on D, well I heard Pauly Martin is pretty smart.

Indeed. It's not about whether anybody would decide to keep him on the team. It's a matter of his contract not allowing us to trade him and his lack of desire to waive his nmc: so how do we make the best of that situation. At the end of the day, no matter how badly you may want, he's not going anywhere.
- mventres

Okay, that makes sense :-)

We can make the best of the situation but that doesn't include him as a leader or a mentor. In fact, I think he has the opposite affect. That really angered me last year when he was the one calling out the team's poor play. If any of you have played Rec league hockey, nothing is worse than the worst player telling you how to play....

A quick note before I start posting my armchair gm rosters. I tried to shake things up a bit, I'm personally worried this team will look too much like it did last year and I don't think that only improving the fourth line will be the solution to all of our problems. All the rosters I made had us getting an elite third Center, usually around Kessler or as a blogger brought up the other day Spezza (I was able to build a good roster around him even at 2 mil more than kessler, much to my own surprise).

You can think whatever you'd like about the fourth line I have, its not something I am dead set on but I pretty much used the same one in each of my scenarios because I like how cheap it is, I think they will be great in speed and possesion, and honestly its a line where there are a lot of options that will be better than who we had there last season. Typically I have both Scuds and Adams gone for whatever picks and or pucks we could get for them, mostly the cap space I must admit. The kessler centered rosters could still fit flower but usually I have Reimer on there for the extra cap space, and he was definitely needed to fit a spezza centered 3rd line.

Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ales Hemsky ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Jussi Jokinen ($3.000m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Anton Zlobin ($0.608m) / Oskar Sundqvist ($0.701m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.851m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Derrick Pouliot ($0.863m)
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.600m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,638,000; BONUSES: $1,025,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,462,000

another note: for this team someone, probably neal, would be needed to secure Kessler from Van. Since they aren't going to give him up for nothing neal would be replaced by Kulemin if I had my way.

Ryan I dislike that roster for 2 reasons.
1. It looks wayyy too much like last years. (I know you really wouldn't want fluery and this is just from free agents.)
.
- ImScore71

Just how many "new" players do you need?

Scuderi, Orpik, Niskanen, Engelland, Jokinen, Adams, Glass, Vitale, Pyatt are all effectively without a job. Only Niskanen and Jokinen are a real loss.

This bottom 6 forward group is night and day from last year's version.


Fleury and Scuderi wouldn't be on my roster. I was just showcasing that even with their dead weight you can still field a quality team.

Okay, that makes sense :-)

We can make the best of the situation but that doesn't include him as a leader or a mentor. In fact, I think he has the opposite affect. That really angered me last year when he was the one calling out the team's poor play. If any of you have played Rec league hockey, nothing is worse than the worst player telling you how to play....
- YouMeAndDupuis9

While his on-ice play has left much to be desired, he does have the IQ and knows where to be (he just doesn't get there in time), how to position himself, etc. In a restricted role, I think he could be competitive, but definitely not if he's pushed to play top 2 or top 4 minutes.

Sounded like the last page of comments was a lot of justification for how to deal with Scuderi on the roster. I don't think mentoring should play a role in that conversation. I think the whole mentoring thing in general is way overrated. That's what the whole staff of coaches is for. And if you really need a "player" to be a mentor on D, well I heard Pauly Martin is pretty smart.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

The problem remains that there's not really much of an option as far as Scuderi goes. Or at least, as far as his cap hit goes.

A quick note before I start posting my armchair gm rosters. I tried to shake things up a bit, I'm personally worried this team will look too much like it did last year and I don't think that only improving the fourth line will be the solution to all of our problems. All the rosters I made had us getting an elite third Center, usually around Kessler or as a blogger brought up the other day Spezza (I was able to build a good roster around him even at 2 mil more than kessler, much to my own surprise).

You can think whatever you'd like about the fourth line I have, its not something I am dead set on but I pretty much used the same one in each of my scenarios because I like how cheap it is, I think they will be great in speed and possesion, and honestly its a line where there are a lot of options that will be better than who we had there last season. Typically I have both Scuds and Adams gone for whatever picks and or pucks we could get for them, mostly the cap space I must admit. The kessler centered rosters could still fit flower but usually I have Reimer on there for the extra cap space, and he was definitely needed to fit a spezza centered 3rd line.

Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ales Hemsky ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Jussi Jokinen ($3.000m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Anton Zlobin ($0.608m) / Oskar Sundqvist ($0.701m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.851m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Derrick Pouliot ($0.863m)
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.600m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,638,000; BONUSES: $1,025,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,462,000

another note: for this team someone, probably neal, would be needed to secure Kessler from Van. Since they aren't going to give him up for nothing neal would be replaced by Kulemin if I had my way.
- ImScore71

How did you get these players?
Brief notes, and why your cap numbers don't work...aside from all the other assumptions that likely render this impossible:
(1) Assuming he would waive (which I highly doubt) Nobody will take Scuderi's salary, at best PENS are stuck with 50% of it.
(2) Jokinen will most likely be in the 4-4.5 mil range.
(3) 2/3 of the 4th line isn't NHL ready, maybe the salary works out to be the same with other players, but this one isn't realistic. I'd add at least another 1.5-2 mil to cover an NHL caliber 4th line.
(4) Despres is RFA and will likely sign for something in the 1.5 range.
(5) Cap is likely less than 71, probably around 69.5-70.

The problem remains that there's not really much of an option as far as Scuderi goes. Or at least, as far as his cap hit goes.
- BulliesPhan87

Exactly.

That capgeek tool is a lot of fun. This is what I came up with having traded Scuderi and the first round pick to Buffalo for their 2 second round picks which they have said they are looking to do. I signed miller to the same money as Fleury because he's incrementally a better goalie. And I have a couple million left over. The only "rookie" on defence is Doumolin as Maatta, Bortuzzo and Despres have played in around or over 80 NHL games and Harrington can come along for the ride and slowly ease his way in. Doumolin has monster size and great offensive instinct and I don't think it will be that great of an adjustment for him.
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ales Hemsky ($5.000m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Jayson Megna ($0.874m) / Marcel Goc ($1.700m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.550m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Simon Despres ($0.851m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m)
GOALTENDERS
Ryan Miller ($6.250m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BUYOUTS
Craig Adams ($0.233m)
Marc-Andre Fleury ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
-----
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,972,958; BONUSES: $375,833
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,127,042

"our goalie cant get it done in the playoffs"

-so lets bring in Ryan Miller

"our bottom 6 forwards arent good enough and arent hard to play against"

-lets have a 4th line featuring jayson megna and brian gibbons

"Crosby has no one tough enough to play with"

-lets go get Ales Hemsky

How did you get these players?
Brief notes, and why your cap numbers don't work...aside from all the other assumptions that likely render this impossible:
(1) Assuming he would waive (which I highly doubt) Nobody will take Scuderi's salary, at best PENS are stuck with 50% of it.
(2) Jokinen will most likely be in the 4-4.5 mil range.
(3) 2/3 of the 4th line isn't NHL ready, maybe the salary works out to be the same with other players, but this one isn't realistic. I'd add at least another 1-2 mil to cover an NHL caliber 4th line.
(4) Despres is RFA and will likely sign for something in the 1.5 range.
(5) Cap is likely less than 71, probably around 69.5-70.
- mventres

Yes you're right I didnt't readjust the salaries from those coming in from free agency who would definitely be looking for at least small raises. Hence the large amount of cap space left, I just put this together again quickly because the page wasn't still up from when I was doing this earlier in the week. I made note that I would off neal and one of our young dmen and maybe a pick to trade for kessler and sign hemsky and kulemin to with reasonable raises and I also noted that it was a longshot to get rid of scuds and adams but one I hope will happen if there are teams who need to get to the cap floor.

First, I've been saying for a while that the Penguins cap situation isn't as bad as it is being portrayed. I'd love for Scuderi to be moved and for Fleury to be swapped for a lower priced alternative, but neither is a 'must' as far as icing a competitive team. The need is for bottom-6 F and short-term 3/4 Dman which are relatively cheap compared to top-6 F and top-2 D.

Second, I like the lineup proposed by Gunner, but would prefer to have one more veteran Dman. Despres, Dumoulin, and Maatta should all be on the ice, but less sure about Harrington. From what I've read he could use 1 more season in the AHL with spot NHL call up duty to develop. This would dip the $ spent in F group a bit, but given the big cap rise next year and the under average F ufa group this year, I'm ok with that for now.

Third, I'd look at building the Pens from a 2 yr perspective. Next year the Cap is set to jump up again by a big margin, from growth and the new TV deal. I'd focus on a few bottom-6 and 5/6 D men this off season w/ the thought of filling in the rest next off season. Maatta, Dumoulin, Despres can take care of the D depth issues internally. 3rd line would be my priority over A top-6 Hemsky type player.

That capgeek tool is a lot of fun. This is what I came up with having traded Scuderi and the first round pick to Buffalo for their 2 second round picks which they have said they are looking to do. I signed miller to the same money as Fleury because he's incrementally a better goalie. And I have a couple million left over. The only "rookie" on defence is Doumolin as Maatta, Bortuzzo and Despres have played in around or over 80 NHL games and Harrington can come along for the ride and slowly ease his way in. Doumolin has monster size and great offensive instinct and I don't think it will be that great of an adjustment for him.
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ales Hemsky ($5.000m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Jayson Megna ($0.874m) / Marcel Goc ($1.700m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.550m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Simon Despres ($0.851m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m)
GOALTENDERS
Ryan Miller ($6.250m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BUYOUTS
Craig Adams ($0.233m)
Marc-Andre Fleury ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
-----
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,972,958; BONUSES: $375,833
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,127,042
- Dcoms

Better, but Scuderi isn't going to waive to go to BUF. Despres is RFA and you'll need to count on him as $1.5/yr...also Sutter is looking at $4mil, likely will get around 3.25...cap likely closer to 69.5 or 70, not 71.

Why buy out Fleury at 5, then sign Miller at 6.25??? Makes no sense!

Orpik while a good locker room guy is too slow for the # he wants. Neal has no discipline. Trade him for value.

Better, but Scuderi isn't going to waive to go to BUF. Despres is RFA and you'll need to count on him as $1.5/yr...also Sutter is looking at $4mil, likely will get around 3.25...cap likely closer to 69.5 or 70, not 71.

Why buy out Fleury at 5, then sign Miller at 6.25??? Makes no sense!
- mventres

Sorry I originally did change Miller to 5.5 it must not have stuck for some reason. I bet if they told Scudeir it's either Wheeling or the Sabers where you have a chance to be a captain he would probably go with the Sabers. I originally gave Sutter a raise to 3.7 too, not sure why they didn't transfer over.

Sorry I originally did change Miller to 5.5 it must not have stuck for some reason. I bet if they told Scudeir it's either Wheeling or the Sabers where you have a chance to be a captain he would probably go with the Sabers. I originally gave Sutter a raise to 3.7 too, not sure why they didn't transfer over.
- Dcoms

His contract doesn't allow him to play in the AHL/ECHL/etc unless for up to 2 weeks conditioning. He's stuck with PIT.

Orpik while a good locker room guy is too slow for the # he wants. Neal has no discipline. Trade him for value.
- i'mjustafan

Trade him for who? Who has that talent at that age for that money and has that much chemistry with Malkin and Crosby? Change just to change is Toronto Maple Leafs hockey management and they have been in 1 playoff series for the entries salary cap era, that's pathetic, I live in Toronto I know how much any kind of a winner would mean to this city and I can't stand that team because it's been mismanaged my whole life.

His contract doesn't allow him to play in the AHL/ECHL/etc unless for up to 2 weeks conditioning. He's stuck with PIT.
- mventres

I think you can send him down if you put him on the waiver wire first? He has a full 'no movement clause? That was retarded considering his age.

His contract doesn't allow him to play in the AHL/ECHL/etc unless for up to 2 weeks conditioning. He's stuck with PIT.
- mventres

Just to join in...and without any trades (they are all "sell-low" options anyway, which doesn't make much sense), just signings, something like this could work (I'm open to suggestions on 3rd line RW, but somebody in the 2-2.5 range with similar skill set to Downie seems like a good idea):

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.250m) / Steve Downie ($2.000m)
Manny Malhotra ($0.600m) / Marcel Goc ($1.700m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.550m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Simon Despres ($1.500m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Scott Harrington ($0.589m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,940,000; BONUSES: $375,833
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,060,000

I think you can send him down if you put him on the waiver wire first? He has a full 'no movement clause? That was retarded considering his age.
- Dcoms

Yes, it is a full nmc (as far as I recall). It was the only way he would sign.

I thought the goal was for the Pens to build a team that's hard to play against? That lineup does not come close. They need a Ryan Malone/Bobby Ryan type winger up front.

It also puts a lot of pressure on youth on the backend and their is zero sandpaper coming from that group.

I'd think before any roster moves are done you need to find a coach. The team has drug it's feet over this GM/Coach hiring and it's hurting them IMO.

As far as the Philly fan thing goes all areas have morons. I live in Johnstown and listen to 105.9 Madden show and hear tons of them from the Pitt area so it's not like it doesn't exist out here...lol....

I said clear back when they traded Staal that they would have been better off trading Malkin getting a boatload of prospects that could have filled out their roster and they would have been a much better defensive team with less conflicts. The PP needs to be broken into two units and split Crosby/Malkin because they both want the same real estate. Same with Letang. A boat load of talent could have been brought in and it's not like you don't have plenty of young dmen who play a similar style. Matta might end up being a much better version as I think he will be better in his own end than Letang is.

I know I'm a Flyer fan so I'm sure I'm already disqualified to comment...lol

I thought the goal was for the Pens to build a team that's hard to play against? That lineup does not come close. They need a Ryan Malone/Bobby Ryan type winger up front.

It also puts a lot of pressure on youth on the backend and their is zero sandpaper coming from that group.

I'd think before any roster moves are done you need to find a coach. The team has drug it's feet over this GM/Coach hiring and it's hurting them IMO.

As far as the Philly fan thing goes all areas have morons. I live in Johnstown and listen to 105.9 Madden show and hear tons of them from the Pitt area so it's not like it doesn't exist out here...lol....

I said clear back when they traded Staal that they would have been better off trading Malkin getting a boatload of prospects that could have filled out their roster and they would have been a much better defensive team with less conflicts. The PP needs to be broken into two units and split Crosby/Malkin because they both want the same real estate. Same with Letang. A boat load of talent could have been brought in and it's not like you don't have plenty of young dmen who play a similar style. Matta might end up being a much better version as I think he will be better in his own end than Letang is.

I know I'm a Flyer fan so I'm sure I'm already disqualified to comment...lol
- Pelle31

I thought the goal was for the Pens to build a team that's hard to play against? That lineup does not come close. They need a Ryan Malone/Bobby Ryan type winger up front.

It also puts a lot of pressure on youth on the backend and their is zero sandpaper coming from that group.

I'd think before any roster moves are done you need to find a coach. The team has drug it's feet over this GM/Coach hiring and it's hurting them IMO.

As far as the Philly fan thing goes all areas have morons. I live in Johnstown and listen to 105.9 Madden show and hear tons of them from the Pitt area so it's not like it doesn't exist out here...lol....

I said clear back when they traded Staal that they would have been better off trading Malkin getting a boatload of prospects that could have filled out their roster and they would have been a much better defensive team with less conflicts. The PP needs to be broken into two units and split Crosby/Malkin because they both want the same real estate. Same with Letang. A boat load of talent could have been brought in and it's not like you don't have plenty of young dmen who play a similar style. Matta might end up being a much better version as I think he will be better in his own end than Letang is.

I know I'm a Flyer fan so I'm sure I'm already disqualified to comment...lol
- Pelle31

These are all retrospective arguments so not much point in discussing them. Aside from trying to acquire Ryan from OTT, which they will likely want Neal in return. It's a lateral move though, so I don't see that happening.