that defense looks a lot better than what we have now.
- Feeling Glucky?

Except Beauchemin was just terrible in Toronto.

Except Beauchemin was just terrible in Toronto.
- RogerRoeper

Kaberle was awful by then also and Schenn, at that point was the worst of the bunch.

that defense looks a lot better than what we have now.
- Feeling Glucky?

thats how down we are on the team in regards to the D play

2 are the same players
3 0f those players are not in the nhl or are barley fringe players

Please trade Dion for #5

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-...tant-to-commit-early.html



please
- senstroll

Where do we sign off on this?

Kaberle was awful by then also and Schenn, at that point was the worst of the bunch.
- Aetherial

On paper it looked good, which is why Burke thought he had a winner when he added Komi+Beauchemin.

Beauchemin in Anaheim is just a different player than anywhere else. He needs to stay there.

thats how down we are on the team in regards to the D play

2 are the same players
3 0f those players are not in the nhl or are barley fringe players
- senstroll

Kaberle was, at the time, better than anything the Leafs currently have beyond Phaneuf. Rielly and Gardiner will hopefully be better, but aren't yet.

Gunnarsson regressed, maybe due to injury, who knows.

Schenn>Franson

Beauchemin wasn't being used properly by Wilson. Last year he was a Norris candidate. Before that he was an anchor for Anaheim.

That is the Leafs fans' way Wedgie.

We suggest offering up MANY turds, assuming it makes up the same value as 1 non-turd.
- Aetherial

worked with Calgary.

Beauchemin just didn't fit in the system in Toronto. But the signing was fantastic. What a return Burke got.

worked with Calgary.
- Feeling Glucky?

Works with every Calgary trade it seem.

On paper it looked good, which is why Burke thought he had a winner when he added Komi+Beauchemin.

Beauchemin in Anaheim is just a different player than anywhere else. He needs to stay there.
- RogerRoeper

Beauchemin wasnt as bad as made out to be. he had a terrible on ice sh% with the leafs...

we need people in change that can look into these things and see if whats happening is a sustainable thing or a lot of it is luck based..which will change. Or pay someone to tell them that

it happend with Dion this season.. for the first 50+ games he had a really high PDO... then it tanked and all of a sudden he is playing "bad" ..

the players are the same..they generally play the same way... luck changes... bounces go in that were staying out before.

respect me?

i'll have to watch for that
- Dozzer

Hartnell to the Jackets..


Done Deal..

Kaberle was, at the time, better than anything the Leafs currently have beyond Phaneuf. Rielly and Gardiner will hopefully be better, but aren't yet.

Gunnarsson regressed, maybe due to injury, who knows.

Schenn>Franson

Beauchemin wasn't being used properly by Wilson. Last year he was a Norris candidate. Before that he was an anchor for Anaheim.
- Feeling Glucky?

I'd probably take Franson over Schenn right now.

Franson serves a role.

What the hell is Schenn at this point?

I'm a firm believer that the first stat you look at with defencemen is TOI/G. It reveals exactly what the coach thinks of you.

Last year, Schenn was 8th in TOI/G for Philly D. He was 4th in SHTOI/G. 7th in ESTOI/G. He got 2:05 in PP time last year - that's all year!

So really, what is he? A second-pairing PKer, and not to be trusted at even strength.

I'll take Franson.

And I don't like Franson.

OK but what is the market for goalies? you're talking as though goalies are being traded for blue chip prospects all around. they're not. getting a top-10 pick for a guy like Schneider (who had 55 career wins as a 27 yo at the time) is good value. like i said, i understand the argument AGAINST trading Schneider. but i think they got good value. and i think unloading Luongo, regardless of the fact that they dealt Schneider earlier, was the right thing to do.

i agree the situation was mismanaged, my only point was that it's not the epic train wreck most people make it out to be.
- DoubleDown

I wouldn't say the market is great. You have some goalies who have proven to be over their prime on the market, like Miller, Hiller, Nabokov, Tim Thomas, and Giguere. Brodeur will make a good backup for a contender.

Young star goaltenders who have secured the number 1 job on their team do not get traded often, and when they do, it's usually for a decent return. I think the last two were Raycroft for Rask flip (Raycroft was a Calder winner and starting goalie in Boston), and the Halak trade from Montreal to St Louis which netted Montreal two prospects.

Beauchemin wasnt as bad as made out to be. he had a terrible on ice sh% with the leafs...

we need people in change that can look into these things and see if whats happening is a sustainable thing or a lot of it is luck based..which will change. Or pay someone to tell them that

it happend with Dion this season.. for the first 50+ games he had a really high PDO... then it tanked and all of a sudden he is playing "bad" ..

the players are the same..they generally play the same way... luck changes... bounces go in that were staying out before.
- senstroll

We need a defensive coach who can put-in a good system. We haven't had that in almost 20 years since Pat Burns. enough of this "Run N' Gun" crap.

You're right. Dion was very good defensively for 3 quarters of the season. When people say he's terrible defensively, I think they're nuts. He was shutting down the best NHL players on a nightly basis. He had a +19 somehow on the Leafs until the collapse occurred. The guy needs help, not to be shown the door.

Holy (frank) did the Flyers just get hosed?

Hartnell just dealt for Umberger+... Interesting!

Holy (frank) did the Flyers just get hosed?
- iTOLDu

Yeah, I think Hartnell is the best player in the deal.

I wouldn't say the market is great. You have some goalies who have proven to be over their prime on the market, like Miller, Hiller, Nabokov, Tim Thomas, and Giguere. Brodeur will make a good backup for a contender.

Young star goaltenders who have secured the number 1 job on their team do not get traded often, and when they do, it's usually for a decent return. I think the last two were Raycroft for Rask flip (Raycroft was a Calder winner and starting goalie in Boston), and the Halak trade from Montreal to St Louis which netted Montreal two prospects.
- ILoveLamp

He was no longer the starter.

The year before the trade, he played 30 games, with a .879 sv% and a 3.71 GAA.

Yeah, I think Hartnell is the best player in the deal.
- Pecafan Fan

For sure. Too lazy to look up but what was his cap hit?

For sure. Too lazy to look up but what was his cap hit?
- iTOLDu

4.7 I think

He was no longer the starter.

The year before the trade, he played 30 games, with a .879 sv% and a 3.71 GAA.
- Atomic Wedgie

He was actually 3rd string.

Yeah, I think Hartnell is the best player in the deal.
- Pecafan Fan

Salary dump?

Edit: both contracts are pretty similar.

He was no longer the starter.

The year before the trade, he played 30 games, with a .879 sv% and a 3.71 GAA.
- Atomic Wedgie

K so point proven again. Young starting goaltenders don't get traded. Vancouver got hosed.

Salary dump?
- Atomic Wedgie

Umberger makes 4.5. Not much difference.

Salary dump?
- Atomic Wedgie

they are almost identical