That's how I'm seeing this. I'll make my judgements once I see them play pre-season
- Streit2ThePoint

i can't wait to watch split squad games

hartnell has been a tremendous player for many years. i dont mean to discredit all that he has done, because it has been substantial, and over a fairly large amount of time. but for whatever reason i just think he is trending alarmingly in the wrong direction.

ill give you he was always a total pain in the ass, but never really a dirty guy. and a gem off of it. i hold no ill will towards him. i just think that deal, given the direction he was trending, was going to be murderous.
- stayinthefnnet

His shot totals were still the same as usual. His shooting percentage dropped. If he was at his normal clip, he would have had 23 goals and 55 points. That's pretty much his standard.

I guess I just disagree with the notion that our forwards can all just be moved up a line and have Umberger fill in at 3rd line. It's not as simple as that. To me, Hexy has created another hole without creating any salary cap space to help fill it.

L Schenn

Edit: or give both to kimmo
- funmaster18

You sure you dont want to give both to Coasty?

Am I the only person who looks at this and goes....

"We knocked two years off a long term deal"

....and thinks...."win".

- mochoson

100% agreed.

Am I the only person who looks at this and goes....

"We knocked two years off a long term deal"

....and thinks...."win".
- mochoson

I'm with you. Don't hate Hartsy, but I really hated his extension.

Couldn't we be over-valuing Hartsy, too?

NMC, contract, temperament, volatile production... not exactly a boon for trade value.
- Tomahawk

If he waived to go to Columbus, I don't think his NMC was holding back many deals.

Flyers are bringing back a bad contract too.

His shot totals were still the same as usual. His shooting percentage dropped. If he was at his normal clip, he would have had 23 goals and 55 points. That's pretty much his standard.

I guess I just disagree with the notion that our forwards can all just be moved up a line and have Umberger fill in at 3rd line. It's not as simple as that. To me, Hexy has created another hole without creating any salary cap space to help fill it.
- PhillySportsGuy

Maybe ....this is just the start of some more changes....as well he did get out from under Hartnell's 4 th and 5th year ....

You sure you dont want to give both to Coasty?
- hereticpride

Ugh, why couldn't they throw him into the deal

Edit: Am married
- PhillySportsGuy

Then gets used to poop like this.

I mean, enjoy the honeymoon.

Sorry, I am going to ruin everyone's day today.

His shot totals were still the same as usual. His shooting percentage dropped. If he was at his normal clip, he would have had 23 goals and 55 points. That's pretty much his standard.

I guess I just disagree with the notion that our forwards can all just be moved up a line and have Umberger fill in at 3rd line. It's not as simple as that. To me, Hexy has created another hole without creating any salary cap space to help fill it.
- PhillySportsGuy

Plenty of time...

As well....I guess we are officially out on the Kesler sweepstakes ...

Ugg, why couldn't they throw him into the deal
- funmaster18

They must be happy with Jody Shelley

Ville Leino just had some hard luck, he's still a viable top-6 winger, right Hexy? Let's throw $2.5M for 3 years at him. Par for the day.

Then gets used to poop like this.

I mean, enjoy the honeymoon.

Sorry, I am going to ruin everyone's day today.
- jmatchett383

We're not going until November when it gets cold. We live at the shore already.

FWIW, here is my take on the Hartnell deal:

First some facts, over the last 2 seasons Hartnell's aggregate stats are:
GP: 110 out of 130
G: 28, 13 on the pp, only 15 at ES
A: 35, 12 on the pp, 23 at ES
PTS: 63, 25 on the pp, 38 at ES

These numbers over 82 games average out to:
21 goals, 27 assists, 48 points.

For a guy who mainly plays with Giroux and Jake and sees heavy duty pp time, those are mediocre numbers.

Is Hartnell a better offensive player than Umberger? Yes
Is Umberger better defensively and more versatile? Yes

Now, if Hartnell only had 2 or 3 years on his deal left, I would hate this trade; but, since he has 5 years left, I can live with it. I certainly don't love it, but I can live with it.

This trade perplexes me, unless it is the first of multiple moves.
- Bill Meltzer

#ImwithBill

I have zero attachment to either player so I'll just adopt a wait-and-see attitude on this trade.

Most players won't. 2nd line wingers rarely put up 60 points. I think he'll be just as productive with Columbus as he was with the Flyers. Same goes for Umberger.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think if Umberger were to play on a line with Couturier and Read, he likely puts up 15-18 goals and 35-40 points.

FWIW, here is my take on the Hartnell deal:

First some facts, over the last 2 seasons Hartnell's aggregate stats are:
GP: 110 out of 130
G: 28, 13 on the pp, only 15 at ES
A: 35, 12 on the pp, 23 at ES
PTS: 63, 25 on the pp, 38 at ES

These numbers over 82 games average out to:
21 goals, 27 assists, 48 points.

For a guy who mainly plays with Giroux and Jake and sees heavy duty pp time, those are mediocre numbers.

Is Hartnell a better offensive player than Umberger? Yes
Is Umberger better defensively and more versatile? Yes

Now, if Hartnell only had 2 or 3 years on his deal left, I would hate this trade; but, since he has 5 years left, I can live with it. I certainly don't love it, but I can live with it.
- BiggE

Stop being rational and join my side of the argument

I'm with you. Don't hate Hartsy, but I really hated his extension.
- Tomahawk

Plus, Umberger is way more versatile. Quite frankly, I think he's better than Hartnell in just about every facet of the game when comparing individually. That doesn't necessarily equate to on-ice production all the time, but I don't see how anyone could argue that we didn't get the more skilled, versatile, and better skating player.

Hartnell will almost certainly have to play with Johansen and Horton to duplicate similar offensive numbers.

Well for the most important question, who where's the A now that Hartnell's gone? Simmonds, Streit, Voracek, Coburn? Dare I say, Couturier?
- TobyFlenderson

Simmonds

I think if Umberger were to play on a line with Couturier and Read, he likely puts up 15-18 goals and 35-40 points.
- BiggE

we'll see

Am I the only person who looks at this and goes....

"We knocked two years off a long term deal"

....and thinks...."win".

Cause quite frankly, I don't care much for Hartnell or Umberger as players really. But if I knew they were making similar money and I would pick one guy, it's Umberger everytime. Way more versatile and a much better skater.
- mochoson

I am 100% with you on this.

Great first impression Hextall.. This one looks ugly & has a foul odor to it

Did he even shop Hartnell around or did Columbus call everyone in the league to take on RJ's contract & he says " umm sure, why not." "I'll give you Hartnell" " no no! Wait! Throw in a useless 4th rounder & you have a deal." "Hmm this GM thing is fun"
"Okay call anytime, bye bye" (click)

His shot totals were still the same as usual. His shooting percentage dropped. If he was at his normal clip, he would have had 23 goals and 55 points. That's pretty much his standard.

I guess I just disagree with the notion that our forwards can all just be moved up a line and have Umberger fill in at 3rd line. It's not as simple as that. To me, Hexy has created another hole without creating any salary cap space to help fill it.
- PhillySportsGuy

i agree to some extent. he must feel umberger can come in and play a positive role. that definitely remains to be seen.

im not going to trot out stats or anything like this board is prone to battle over. just simply watching hartnell, there were troubling signs. his inability to get into the zone killed a ton of would be rushes for giroux. many of his shots appeared to be of the weaker, further away variety. he seemed to set up mainly in the slot more and hope that giroux could plant one on his stick as opposed to going to the gritty areas that made him as a player.

defensively, he was slipping all the more. bumping him down to the second would have been rough if it forced him and simmonds to be on the same line. simmonds is meh defensively too, but he at least brings now all of the things that hartnell used to to cancel it out.

harts still had SOME value for sure, but given the trend in performance coupled with his deal, it was going to turn hellacious fairly soon. i'm with you though in that maybe they shouldnt have even included umberger in the deal at all if need be.

Also, I think you can truly only judge this deal when all offseason moves have been made.