FWIW, here is my take on the Hartnell deal:

First some facts, over the last 2 seasons Hartnell's aggregate stats are:
GP: 110 out of 130
G: 28, 13 on the pp, only 15 at ES
A: 35, 12 on the pp, 23 at ES
PTS: 63, 25 on the pp, 38 at ES

These numbers over 82 games average out to:
21 goals, 27 assists, 48 points.

For a guy who mainly plays with Giroux and Jake and sees heavy duty pp time, those are mediocre numbers.

Is Hartnell a better offensive player than Umberger? Yes
Is Umberger better defensively and more versatile? Yes

Now, if Hartnell only had 2 or 3 years on his deal left, I would hate this trade; but, since he has 5 years left, I can live with it. I certainly don't love it, but I can live with it.
- BiggE

This. For the love of god, this.

Hopefully this will silence some of the hate. I know it wont, but I'm going to hope so anyway.

FWIW, here is my take on the Hartnell deal:

First some facts, over the last 2 seasons Hartnell's aggregate stats are:
GP: 110 out of 130
G: 28, 13 on the pp, only 15 at ES
A: 35, 12 on the pp, 23 at ES
PTS: 63, 25 on the pp, 38 at ES

These numbers over 82 games average out to:
21 goals, 27 assists, 48 points.

For a guy who mainly plays with Giroux and Jake and sees heavy duty pp time, those are mediocre numbers.

Is Hartnell a better offensive player than Umberger? Yes
Is Umberger better defensively and more versatile? Yes

Now, if Hartnell only had 2 or 3 years on his deal left, I would hate this trade; but, since he has 5 years left, I can live with it. I certainly don't love it, but I can live with it.
- BiggE

Excellent analysis

Great first impression Hextall.. This one looks ugly & has a foul odor to it

Did he even shop Hartnell around or did Columbus call everyone in the league to take on RJ's contract & he says " umm sure, why not." "I'll give you Hartnell" " no no! Wait! Throw in a useless 4th rounder & you have a deal." "Hmm this GM thing is fun"
"Okay call anytime, bye bye" (click)
- Erik6Karlsson5

That must've been it.

Simmonds
- BiggE

that would be my vote. without question

i agree to some extent. he must feel umberger can come in and play a positive role. that definitely remains to be seen.

im not going to trot out stats or anything like this board is prone to battle over. just simply watching hartnell, there were troubling signs. his inability to get into the zone killed a ton of would be rushes for giroux. many of his shots appeared to be of the weaker, further away variety. he seemed to set up mainly in the slot more and hope that giroux could plant one on his stick as opposed to going to the gritty areas that made him as a player.

defensively, he was slipping all the more. bumping him down to the second would have been rough if it forced him and simmonds to be on the same line. simmonds is meh defensively too, but he at least brings now all of the things that hartnell used to to cancel it out.

harts still had SOME value for sure, but given the trend in performance coupled with his deal, it was going to turn hellacious fairly soon. i'm with you though in that maybe they shouldnt have even included umberger in the deal at all if need be.
- stayinthefnnet

Honestly, I would have preferred just a 3rd rounder. Probably could have gotten in from Vancouver. Now that he's in the division, he'll light us up every game.

Also, I think you can truly only judge this deal when all offseason moves have been made.
- BiggE

No no no. We're doomed. Hextall's a mo-ron.

#ImwithBill

I have zero attachment to either player so I'll just adopt a wait-and-see attitude on this trade.
- Scoob

You're (frank)ing crazy

Honestly, I would have preferred just a 3rd rounder. Probably could have gotten in from Vancouver. Now that he's in the division, he'll light us up every game.
- jmatchett383

No one in the league was touching Hartnell's contract without us taking a contract back in return. It just wasnt going to happen.

That must've been it.
- BulliesPhan87

that would be my vote. without question
- stayinthefnnet

Good to know that we'll have lost both our our A's within a 12-month span.

No one in the league was touching Hartnell's contract without us taking a contract back in return. It just wasnt going to happen.
- hereticpride

I'd rather eat 50% of it than have Umberger.

Honestly, I would have preferred just a 3rd rounder. Probably could have gotten in from Vancouver. Now that he's in the division, he'll light us up every game.
- jmatchett383

columbus is putting together some real grit, thats for sure.

Good to know that we'll have lost both our our A's within a 12-month span.
- jmatchett383

at least you have a (frank)ing coach.

Hartnell must have slept with Girouxs girlfriend

I'd rather eat 50% of it than have Umberger.
- jmatchett383

Really, you'd rather pay Hartnell cap space for 5 years?

Joe, he was great with Leino and Briere, and with Carter and Lupul, and with Jagr and G.

Those years are gone.

He's not an effective #1 LW for the system they are using. He lost his spot to Raffl for cripes sake.

I love Hartnell and all he did for the team. He was a great player and fun to watch. He's very unlikely to have 30 goal seasons anymore.
- Marc D

And thats fine marc but to say his stats are a product of the lines he played with completely disregards the contributions of the plYer himself

Stop being rational and join my side of the argument
- PhillySportsGuy

All kidding aside, this deal will most likely not help the team next season, and I'm ok with that. I took Hextall seriously when he said that we may need to take a step a back to move forward. Unlike some on this thread, I don't think the Flyers are just a move or 2 away from being a top contender, but rather that they are a middle of the pack team that is most likely 2 or 3 years away from being a top club.

If that is how Hextall feels as well then I can understand this move, because he is thinking about the make up of the team and their cap situation in 2 or 3 years, not next year.

Like I've said before, what's the worst thing that can happen next year? Missing the playoffs? Well then we have a lottery pick in what is shaping up to be an extremely deep draft featuring at least 2 franchise players. I can live with that.

columbus is putting together some real grit, thats for sure.
- stayinthefnnet

I'm thinking the next person who comes into my office with a retarded question (83% of the time) is going to (frank)ing get it.

Hartnell must have slept with Girouxs girlfriend
- funmaster18

Nah i think he just slept with giroux

that would be my vote. without question
- stayinthefnnet

Same. Although I wouldn't mind Voracek. He'll probably get it after Kimmo's gone.

I'm reading Justin Shultz is involved with Oilers talks. and that flyers are indeed preparing for Offer sheet to PK. but its Ek' s twitter....

Really, you'd rather pay Hartnell cap space for 5 years?
- hereticpride

As compared to having RJ's for 3 years? Yes.

No one in the league was touching Hartnell's contract without us taking a contract back in return. It just wasnt going to happen.
- hereticpride

i would like to think so. i certainly wouldnt as a GM. but it wouldnt have shocked me if someone did. he offers more value than vinny

And thats fine marc but to say his stats are a product of the lines he played with completely disregards the contributions of the plYer himself
- JoeRussomanno

Greztky was only good because he played with Kurri and Robitaille.

that would be my vote. without question
- stayinthefnnet

He already wore it for a few games when Hartnell and later Timonen were out of the lineup.